Jose Bautista

[RedThat]

May I ask, where in the heck did this guy come from?

Leads the league in HR's, RBI's, has a good OBP, solid utility player. Great arm in the outfield, he is up there as one of the leaders in assists for an outfielder. Very good defensively. Yeah he was a Royal at one time. I know it sucks. You can shoot me for saying that. But how in the world did he become this good? Dude is having a monster year. Great breakout season.

[Hootie]

the analysis on Bonds on this website is funny...

people hate him so they dismiss how amazing of a ball player he was

[keg in kc]

Bonds could have been a hall of famer without the performance enhancers.

Unfortunately, however, he won't be. Dude ruined his own legacy.

(I'm not saying he won't be a hall of famer, I'm saying he won't be a hall of famer without an apostrophe)

[thebrad84]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Bonds could have been a hall of famer without the performance enhancers.

Unfortunately, however, he won't be. Dude ruined his own legacy.

(I'm not saying he won't be a hall of famer, I'm saying he won't be a hall of famer without an apostrophe)

Barry Bonds'? or 'Barry Bonds?

[Zaiko]

He's PEDing his ass off. For brevity's sake let's just see HRs.


2008 Total 370AB 15HR
2009 TOR 336AB 13HR
2010 Tor 534AB 52HR

Nothing fishy at all going on here guys. Don't mind me, just being a 30 year old who suddenly, and magically, found all my power.

Edit: To those of you who'd say well blah blah they test now.. I don't buy that. 1. It's still possible to get around. PEDs are ahead of the testing.. and 2. Do you really think the MLB would let it get out that it's HR leader is another PED doper? I don't think so. The game is already very tainted.

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by Zaiko

He's PEDing his ass off. For brevity's sake let's just see HRs.


2008 Total 370AB 15HR
2009 TOR 336AB 13HR
2010 Tor 534AB 52HR

Nothing fishy at all going on here guys. Don't mind me, just being a 30 year old who suddenly, and magically, found all my power.

Probably, but until you catch him he should be treated like god like Ken Griffey Jr.

[Zaiko]

I don't think someone with such a drastic change in this era, with the current state of the MLB, really deserves the benefit of the doubt to that extent.

[Buck]

Originally Posted by The Meat Dragon

the analysis on Bonds on this website is funny...

people hate him so they dismiss how amazing of a ball player he was

Yeah, but you know those 5 great seasons he had?

Had he not been on steroids, he still would have been a great player, no doubt.

However, his OPS would have been so much lower its not even funny. His Batting Average too.

1. He would have been walked much less because he wasn't a threat to hit a homer every 5 AB.
2. Lets say he 100 less walks per season, and those 100 AB turned into 35 hits, thats a major decline on his OBP.
3. His bat would have been slowed just by a little, which would have definitely made his BA go down.
4. His Slugging Pct would have gone way down.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Zaiko

He's PEDing his ass off. For brevity's sake let's just see HRs.


2008 Total 370AB 15HR
2009 TOR 336AB 13HR
2010 Tor 534AB 52HR

Nothing fishy at all going on here guys. Don't mind me, just being a 30 year old who suddenly, and magically, found all my power.

Edit: To those of you who'd say well blah blah they test now.. I don't buy that. 1. It's still possible to get around. PEDs are ahead of the testing.. and 2. Do you really think the MLB would let it get out that it's HR leader is another PED doper? I don't think so. The game is already very tainted.

Even if PEDs worked this way (they don't, by the way), why would Bautista randomly start using a magic one in 2010, after years of struggling in college, the minors, and the bigs? What made 2010 so special?

If Bautista is using PEDs, he's likely been using them for years and years now. That isn't a real explanation for his power.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Bonds could have been a hall of famer without the performance enhancers.

Unfortunately, however, he won't be. Dude ruined his own legacy.

(I'm not saying he won't be a hall of famer, I'm saying he won't be a hall of famer without an apostrophe)

If he doesn't do them, people would have continued to ignore his accomplishments in favor of lesser players like Griffey, McGwire, and Sosa.

[Hootie]

buck...

look at Bonds 1994 numbers...

case closed

dude was putting up 1.000 OPS+ every year with and without steroids

[Buck]

Originally Posted by The Meat Dragon

buck...

look at Bonds 1994 numbers...

case closed

dude was putting up 1.000 OPS+ every year with and without steroids

Yeah I know, but would he have done that in his late 30s and early 40s without the use of steroids? He was the best in the game in the Early 90s, and even better in the late 90s and early 2000s, but if he was like any other ball player he would have fallen off a little while he neared his 40s, instead of getting better.

[Hootie]

sure...no doubt

no dispute

don't care though...

I really don't...everyone was cheating...and kudos to those who weren't...

but damn...Bonds was amazing at it...he cheated like everyone else and he really showed everyone what a ****ing machine was...because he was UNSTOPPABLE...couldn't pitch to him...dude was the best hitter I've ever seen. Period.

[KC_Connection]

And that's really the point. They were all using. And Bonds was just that much better than all of them.

[Zaiko]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Even if PEDs worked this way (they don't, by the way), why would Bautista randomly start using a magic one in 2010, after years of struggling in college, the minors, and the bigs? What made 2010 so special?

If Bautista is using PEDs, he's likely been using them for years and years now. That isn't a real explanation for his power.

Lot of assuming, even more than me. How do they work then bud? Lots of reasons why he would start using, maybe he wanted to stop sucking and be a big shot. I'm not dumb though. I understand there's more to hitting than just taking roids, but it certainly would help.

And likely using them for years and years now is an odd thing to say... What would even make you say that?

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Zaiko

Lot of assuming, even more than me. How do they work then bud?

Unless you think some magic PED has been discovered, they certainly don't cause 40 HR single-season increases. If they did, we'd have seen a lot more of this kind of thing over the last 20 years from mediocre players. Bautista's jump might have something to do with PED use, but the far more reasonable and observable explanation is the swing change.

Lots of reasons why he would start using, maybe he wanted to stop sucking and be a big shot.

He finally had a starting job for the first time in his baseball career, making $3M a season, and this was the year he chose to use steroids?

As I said, if he's used them, it's far more likely that Bautista started in college or the minors when he was actually struggling to make a living.

And likely using them for years and years now is an odd thing to say... What would even make you say that?

Because I'm of the belief that most of the players in professional baseball are either using or have used PEDs during their career. There's a drug culture in baseball and has been for decades.