Chiefs Different way of Looking at the SB and Brady - Page 7

synthesis2 · 05:27 PM

Look I'm ok with getting roasted for this take and I'm cool with it but a few things I had to put into perspective with the game.

1) Lets say you just switch QB's for that game and everything else is the same. What is the score? Bucs 49 Chiefs 0? or 3? Brady did nothing great, just did what he needed to do and their running game was very good and they won. Brady won the game but it wasn't because he was amazing at what he did, just managed enough and we sucked enough ( plus the fun calls from the refs) to not win.

2) Brady because of his Hardware is considered the GOAT by most but I still struggle to see what he does that is so amazing? I mean he is competitive, almost a competitive prick which is good, you could say he is a good leader, but watching him play football is just like watching snow melt, he NEVER does anything that makes your jaw drop. In NE he has been apart of a team that had amazing defenses and last night was the same.

You could have put about 20 QB's on Tampa's team last night and won the game if we only score 9 points, Brady was just one of many that would have won that game.

Brady is a good QB but not amazing, nothing about him screams greatness except his rings and that may be enough for most people. For me it wasn't even close, the MVP was the Buc's Defensive line and it wasn't even close.

For me Jordan is the best ever but if it was just rings alone then Bill Russell is the best.

I give Brady his due much a lot of his "greatness" comes from being on the right team at the right time.

Best22 · 02-13-2021, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giant Octopodes

1) Brady had a passer rating of 125.8, 0 Ints, 3 TDs. If that's "nothing great", then I guess Mahomes MVP season where he had an average passer rating of 113.8 was pretty mediocre huh?

2) It's not because of his hardware, though that doesn't hurt. No one considered Bradshaw to be the GOAT before Brady came along. Folks consider Jordan the GOAT over Bill Russell. It's not a ring count, Brady is the GOAT for dozens of reasons. And if nothing he does makes your jaw drop, then no offense but you don't know football and don't understand what's happening in front of your eyes.

He makes laser passes rifled between two defenders with great velocity at the perfect spot to where only his guy can get it occur so frequently, and with such seeming ease, that it might *seem* trivial or ho-hum to someone who doesn't understand QB play. But frankly few in the NFL can pull it off, and no one as consistently as him. He's not perfect and makes mistakes, and has some terrible throws too. Gets a lot of favorable calls too. But he makes mistakes at a lower rate than just about anyone else, and has greater arm talent than just about anyone else. You can argue Mahomes all you want, but to say Brady is "nothing special" just comes across as ignorant imho.

As for the rest of it, eh. Put other QBs on there and they don't even make it to the Super Bowl. As evidenced by last year. They had the league leader in passing yards, 2nd most TDs, 6 above that of Mahomes. But it wasn't even close to good enough. They had Shaq Barrett, Devin White, Lavonte David, Jason Pierre Paul, all those guys were part of the defense last year too. Didn't even make the playoffs.

If you don't get it, that's cool. If you think Brady's team makes him rather than the other way around, fair enough. He's been a part of a ton of really great teams. The 7-9 Bucs, or the 7-9 Patriots, might disagree, but I'm sure you can come up with excuses. He's taking 15 million less per year than Mahomes so they can afford to spend some more money on the rest of the team, but I'm sure any QB would do that. Mahomes didn't, nor Rodgers, nor Wilson, but you know, what does that have to do with anything, am I right?

I’m pretty sure Mahomes and Brady will have the same cap hit for the 2021 season. Both around $25m

Giant Octopodes · 02-13-2021, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by synthesis2

Look I like the defense your trying to put up for good ol Tom but honestly the eye test will tell you a lot about someone.

1) If you think Brady would have scored more than 6 point with that Chiefs O-Line with that many pressures and with that many drops by the WR you are crazy.

2) again if you think of sports as a entertainment there is very little Brady does that truly makes your jaw drop. In fact I can't think of anything he has done that made me think he was amazing. Every dink and donk throw mahomes could make half asleep and you know it.

3) Look I'll give him the GOAT of Rings but that's it. I think the way you define the GOAT is this.... You get to start your own NFL team and can have any QB in their prime who do you want? For me Brady is between 10-15. but not in my top 9, no way.

Believe what you want, the eye test is only as good as the eyes administering it. Brady with that kind of pressure would probably be destroyed. We've seen that evidenced, cost him a pair of Super Bowls. But that has absolutely nothing to do with how he plays when clean, and if you think it was all dink and dunk throws, you're not watching, or you're watching and not seeing. Brady makes throws that make my jaw drop all the time. Such as that TD to Antonio Brown in the Super Bowl.

If I was taking any QB for my own NFL team, and I needed to throw them all together to play 1 game, tomorrow? I'm taking Mahomes in a heartbeat. But if I'm starting my own team, and the goal is to win a championship game we won't play for a year? I'm taking Tom Brady #1, 10 times out of 10. Pretty much at any stage of his career you want to consider his "prime" within the last 14 years.

Edit:
"I’m pretty sure Mahomes and Brady will have the same cap hit for the 2021 season. Both around $25m"

Correct. Mahomes actually only had a $5 mil cap this year. But I was talking average salary. Remember, Mahomes Average salary is over 40 million per year. It was 5 Million this year, it's 25 next year, over 30 after that, then over 40 after that.

Titty Meat · 02-13-2021, 01:01 AM

Brady is 4-0 against Andy Reid a HOF'r top 5 all time coach in the post season. Brady is 2-0 against Mahomes who's the Best QB in the league. He threw 3 touchdowns 0 picks in the super bowl let's not act like he didnt have any good throws either. 7 rings 10 super bowl appearances, more titles than any franchise hes the best period.

QBs dont always need to throw 50 yard bombs sometimes they just need to be efficient. Brady always is atleast efficient where a guy like Alex Smith isnt. Moving forward Andy needs to learn that like the game against Buffalo in the regular season. Had he adjusted to something like that the game could have been much closer.

POND_OF_RED · 02-13-2021, 01:59 AM

What’s so great is how we lose perspective and forget Mahomes is still only 25. He’s earned a place already to be talked with in the same breath as the most accomplished QB’s of all time. When Brady was 25 no one was putting him into the same conversation with Montana yet. They were mainly discussing the tuck rule and Bruschi’s dominance in the playoffs.

I don’t think anyone here doubts that Mahomes can still catch Brady considering he’s on a much better pace to start his career. Could you imagine if Mahomes would have missed the playoffs this year like Brady did after his first super bowl win? I mean...it’s perspectives and when you look at them on the same timelines it’s not even an argument. Mahomes is destroying Brady. If he continues to grow and learn and if the league decides to protect him and create a couple rules to help him flourish like they did for Brady, then I just don’t see anyone stopping this guy as continues to grow and develop. These losses are just feeding the fire.

Best22 · 02-13-2021, 03:08 AM

I think trying to focus on topping Brady isn’t the right way to view this as fans. We didn’t draft him to win more rings than Brady. We drafted him to take this team over the hump and win us a Super Bowl, which he did.

Mahomes career is already a success. I’d like to see him win more rings but there isn’t any urge to see him overtake Brady. That’s what I hate about Lebron discussions. Dude had a great career. There shouldn’t be any negatives attached, but since he didn’t “top” Michael Jordan, it makes people say “what if” which is ridiculous for a multi-MVP and 4 time champ like LeBron.

Mahomes doesn’t have to be the GOAT, and he probably won’t win 7 or 8 rings anyway.

Titty Meat · 02-13-2021, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Best22

I think trying to focus on topping Brady isn’t the right way to view this as fans. We didn’t draft him to win more rings than Brady. We drafted him to take this team over the hump and win us a Super Bowl, which he did.

Mahomes career is already a success. I’d like to see him win more rings but there isn’t any urge to see him overtake Brady. That’s what I hate about Lebron discussions. Dude had a great career. There shouldn’t be any negatives attached, but since he didn’t “top” Michael Jordan, it makes people say “what if” which is ridiculous for a multi-MVP and 4 time champ like LeBron.

Mahomes doesn’t have to be the GOAT, and he probably won’t win 7 or 8 rings anyway.

Yup. I didnt give a **** how many rings Brady won last year when we won it all and I was partying downtown and I wont give a **** how many he has if we win it again.

I'll say this winning it all is really ****ing hard. Making it to a super bowl is really ****ing hard. Even making the AFC title game is pretty hard. If this is the top of the mountain so be it. When we drafted Mahomes and someone would have told me he would make the AFC title game, 2 super bowls and only win 1 would I be satisfied? Yes absolutely.

rabblerouser · 02-13-2021, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

You could have put about 20 QB's on Tampa's team last night and won the game if we only score 9 points,

How many of them win games back-to-back in New Orleans and GB to get there, like he did.

Depends on if GB just literally rolls over and gives up like they did for Brady...

"It's those things that make ya go 'hmmmmm'..."

rabblerouser · 02-13-2021, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titty Meat

Brady is 4-0 against Andy Reid a HOF'r top 5 all time coach in the post season. Brady is 2-0 against Mahomes who's the Best QB in the league. He threw 3 touchdowns 0 picks in the super bowl let's not act like he didnt have any good throws either. 7 rings 10 super bowl appearances, more titles than any franchise hes the best period.

QBs dont always need to throw 50 yard bombs sometimes they just need to be efficient. Brady always is atleast efficient where a guy like Alex Smith isnt. Moving forward Andy needs to learn that like the game against Buffalo in the regular season. Had he adjusted to something like that the game could have been much closer.

**** Tom Brady, Billy.

8 year olds, dude.

synthesis2 · 02-13-2021, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titty Meat

Brady is 4-0 against Andy Reid a HOF'r top 5 all time coach in the post season. Brady is 2-0 against Mahomes who's the Best QB in the league. He threw 3 touchdowns 0 picks in the super bowl let's not act like he didnt have any good throws either. 7 rings 10 super bowl appearances, more titles than any franchise hes the best period.

QBs dont always need to throw 50 yard bombs sometimes they just need to be efficient. Brady always is atleast efficient where a guy like Alex Smith isnt. Moving forward Andy needs to learn that like the game against Buffalo in the regular season. Had he adjusted to something like that the game could have been much closer.

Brady isn’t 2-0 against Mahomes in the playoffs he is 1-1, Dee Ford gave him the victory . Mahomes earned a W in that game hands down, everyone including good ol Tom knew it was over . Fords few inches offsides didn’t cause anything Tom did or pressure him in the least .

He made a bad throw asnd it was picked . Dee gave Tom his second win, most rational chiefs fans don’t consider that a real W for tommy boy . If they have the MVP to Ford I would recognize it more

synthesis2 · 02-13-2021, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Best22

I think trying to focus on topping Brady isn’t the right way to view this as fans. We didn’t draft him to win more rings than Brady. We drafted him to take this team over the hump and win us a Super Bowl, which he did.

Mahomes career is already a success. I’d like to see him win more rings but there isn’t any urge to see him overtake Brady. That’s what I hate about Lebron discussions. Dude had a great career. There shouldn’t be any negatives attached, but since he didn’t “top” Michael Jordan, it makes people say “what if” which is ridiculous for a multi-MVP and 4 time champ like LeBron.

Mahomes doesn’t have to be the GOAT, and he probably won’t win 7 or 8 rings anyway.

Again I think there are soooooo many “meanings” to the word GOAT. Tom Brady isn’t the overall GOAT of football just as Russel isn’t the overall GOAT of basketball . Football has fifty three men on the roster of which 25-30 play HUGE roles in the outcomes of games. Blocking , tackling , catching , running etc . If one or more go crazy there isn’t much your QB can do .

Tom is a fine QB but he has been on very good teams . My definition of a goat is someone with multiple titles who does things you have never seen before and may not again . Mahomes wins one or two more with his ability he would be the GOAT hands down .

Like Jordan who did things we have never seen before and have never seen since . This is Mahomes .

crayzkirk · 02-13-2021, 09:29 AM

Perspective is everything; if TB had played for the Chiefs and had won 7 SBs, every one of us would be saying he was the most amazing and exciting QB to ever play the game.

The teams he has played on have usually had very good to great defensive lines and very good offensive lines.

He just wins. He has the personality of a 2x4. He just wins. He is married to a super model. He just wins.

It just shows that teams need to be balanced and that a team is only as good as it's weakest link.

lawrenceRaider · 02-13-2021, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

It helps when the line judge names her kid after you.

Funny thing about that is the female line judge was consistently shorting the Bucs on spots by at least a half yard, sometimes more. The opposite line judge consistently hit the right spot. I also saw her give the Chiefs extra yardage on Pat scrambles more than once.

RunKC · 02-13-2021, 09:37 AM

Patrick is already a legend. He’s the best player I’ve ever seen play for the Chiefs and the fact that he won us a SB is all that matters. My biggest fear was he’d be the next Marino but we can put that fear to bed.

If I were betting for his career I’d put the over/ under at:

3 Super Bowl Wins
7 Super Bowl appearances
11 Conference Championship appearances

If Patrick gets even that then he’s a top 5 accomplished QB in history

synthesis2 · 02-13-2021, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crayzkirk

Perspective is everything; if TB had played for the Chiefs and had won 7 SBs, every one of us would be saying he was the most amazing and exciting QB to ever play the game.

The teams he has played on have usually had very good to great defensive lines and very good offensive lines.

He just wins. He has the personality of a 2x4. He just wins. He is married to a super model. He just wins.

It just shows that teams need to be balanced and that a team is only as good as it's weakest link.

So you made my argument perfectly ! And what you said is why I’m arguing that he isn’t the GOAT of quarterbacks but mearly an above average QB on very good offensive/defensive teams .

Now if the argument is that the “Patriots organization” is the GOAT of football teams all time , well I’m on board because as a collective team they have won the most rings and as a “team” that gives them bragging rights as the GOAT of all teams .

But to give Brady the title of goat when he is on such good teams is absolutely silly . Again change QB right before the SB and the score is 49-6? 52-3 maybe Brady gets a zero? I mean we already know he is awful without a clean pocket and if he had jail breaks everytine he drops back the game is over .

Patriots are goats but I would argue there are 20-30 QB in the NFL all time that put on those exact same teams would win just as many .

I’ve been watching football for 40 years and I’ve never seen talent with my own eyes like Mahomes has. Rogers is close but he isn’t even attempting that throw where Mahomes is hovering sideways on the ground .

He wins even one more and I think it’s a easy GOAT discussion

02-08-2021, 05:09 PM
synthesis2 synthesis2 Join Date: Mar 2005 Casino cash: $9335401	Different way of Looking at the SB and Brady Look I'm ok with getting roasted for this take and I'm cool with it but a few things I had to put into perspective with the game. 1) Lets say you just switch QB's for that game and everything else is the same. What is the score? Bucs 49 Chiefs 0? or 3? Brady did nothing great, just did what he needed to do and their running game was very good and they won. Brady won the game but it wasn't because he was amazing at what he did, just managed enough and we sucked enough ( plus the fun calls from the refs) to not win. 2) Brady because of his Hardware is considered the GOAT by most but I still struggle to see what he does that is so amazing? I mean he is competitive, almost a competitive prick which is good, you could say he is a good leader, but watching him play football is just like watching snow melt, he NEVER does anything that makes your jaw drop. In NE he has been apart of a team that had amazing defenses and last night was the same. You could have put about 20 QB's on Tampa's team last night and won the game if we only score 9 points, Brady was just one of many that would have won that game. Brady is a good QB but not amazing, nothing about him screams greatness except his rings and that may be enough for most people. For me it wasn't even close, the MVP was the Buc's Defensive line and it wasn't even close. For me Jordan is the best ever but if it was just rings alone then Bill Russell is the best. I give Brady his due much a lot of his "greatness" comes from being on the right team at the right time. Last edited by synthesis2; 02-08-2021 at 05:27 PM..
Posts: 576

02-13-2021, 01:01 AM	#93
Titty Meat Inmem 2.0 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: My house Casino cash: $1737558	Brady is 4-0 against Andy Reid a HOF'r top 5 all time coach in the post season. Brady is 2-0 against Mahomes who's the Best QB in the league. He threw 3 touchdowns 0 picks in the super bowl let's not act like he didnt have any good throws either. 7 rings 10 super bowl appearances, more titles than any franchise hes the best period. QBs dont always need to throw 50 yard bombs sometimes they just need to be efficient. Brady always is atleast efficient where a guy like Alex Smith isnt. Moving forward Andy needs to learn that like the game against Buffalo in the regular season. Had he adjusted to something like that the game could have been much closer.
Posts: 75,652

02-13-2021, 01:59 AM	#94
POND_OF_RED The talking stonehead Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Blue Springs, MO Casino cash: $1303146	What’s so great is how we lose perspective and forget Mahomes is still only 25. He’s earned a place already to be talked with in the same breath as the most accomplished QB’s of all time. When Brady was 25 no one was putting him into the same conversation with Montana yet. They were mainly discussing the tuck rule and Bruschi’s dominance in the playoffs. I don’t think anyone here doubts that Mahomes can still catch Brady considering he’s on a much better pace to start his career. Could you imagine if Mahomes would have missed the playoffs this year like Brady did after his first super bowl win? I mean...it’s perspectives and when you look at them on the same timelines it’s not even an argument. Mahomes is destroying Brady. If he continues to grow and learn and if the league decides to protect him and create a couple rules to help him flourish like they did for Brady, then I just don’t see anyone stopping this guy as continues to grow and develop. These losses are just feeding the fire.
Posts: 5,786	1 0

02-13-2021, 03:08 AM	#95
Best22 MVP Join Date: May 2016 Location: World Boxing Champs Casino cash: $3500400	I think trying to focus on topping Brady isn’t the right way to view this as fans. We didn’t draft him to win more rings than Brady. We drafted him to take this team over the hump and win us a Super Bowl, which he did. Mahomes career is already a success. I’d like to see him win more rings but there isn’t any urge to see him overtake Brady. That’s what I hate about Lebron discussions. Dude had a great career. There shouldn’t be any negatives attached, but since he didn’t “top” Michael Jordan, it makes people say “what if” which is ridiculous for a multi-MVP and 4 time champ like LeBron. Mahomes doesn’t have to be the GOAT, and he probably won’t win 7 or 8 rings anyway.
Posts: 5,917	1 0

02-13-2021, 09:29 AM	#101
crayzkirk Veteran Join Date: Nov 2016 Casino cash: $3400000	Perspective is everything; if TB had played for the Chiefs and had won 7 SBs, every one of us would be saying he was the most amazing and exciting QB to ever play the game. The teams he has played on have usually had very good to great defensive lines and very good offensive lines. He just wins. He has the personality of a 2x4. He just wins. He is married to a super model. He just wins. It just shows that teams need to be balanced and that a team is only as good as it's weakest link.
Posts: 4,427

02-13-2021, 09:37 AM	#103
RunKC Andy Reid Supporter Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $1729611	Patrick is already a legend. He’s the best player I’ve ever seen play for the Chiefs and the fact that he won us a SB is all that matters. My biggest fear was he’d be the next Marino but we can put that fear to bed. If I were betting for his career I’d put the over/ under at: 3 Super Bowl Wins 7 Super Bowl appearances 11 Conference Championship appearances If Patrick gets even that then he’s a top 5 accomplished QB in history __________________ Mike Greenberg@Espngreeny I can’t fathom what it must be like to be a fan of the #Chiefs. Adopt a Chief: Jared Wiley
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