The Pioli Poll

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I was excited when we hired Pioli. I was apparently an idiot.

What could go wrong? A guy from the front office of the best team in the NFL... executive of the year... a couple Super-Bowl teams he helped build. How was this not a major upgrade over Carl?

Long story short... do you still believe Peeholey can build a winning team or not?

(I know some didn't believe it from the start... geniuses)

*not this shit again*
**stupid thread moron**
***why do you even try to start football threads***
****tl;dr**** Pioli

[Chiefaholic]

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

Hmm...

Derrick Thomas
Tim Grunhard
Will Shields
Tony Gonzalez
Jerome Woods
Donnie Edwards
Joe Horn

Those are the pro bowlers.

Pro Bowler for the Saints, not the Chiefs. Marty never gave the guy an opportunity because he always favored a veteran over than taking a chance on a rookie.

I'm not knocking Marty, because I believe he was a fine coach who knew how to get the most out of his players. But, his offensive approach of play not to lose kept a damn fine defensive unit from meeting their abilities in the post season.

[Chiefaholic]

Originally Posted by milkman

First, don't talk to me about Pro Bowls.

Matt Cassel and Steve Bono have gone to the Pro Bowl.

Pro Bowl means jack.

Second, my disdain for Donnie Edwards is pretty well documented.
Might be the single most overrated player by Chiefs fans ever.

That being said, even if I give you Donnie Edwards, and throw in Dave Szott, who was a damn good tackle, we are still talking about only 8 players in 10 years.

I admit I'm too lazy to Google... But, wasn't Szott a castaway from the Jets prior to the Chiefs?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by milkman

The foundation for those early years with Carl were players drafted by Jack Steadman.

Right. I've made that argument time and again over the years.

Originally Posted by milkman

DT was the one player he drafted that ws a part of that foundation.

I disagree. Bringing in Mike Webster to help groom Grunhard was a good decision. Peterson also brought in Will Shields, Dave Szott, the aforementioned Derrick Thomas & Dave Szott, Dale Carter, Tony Gonzalez, Jerome Woods, Reggie Tongue and really hit it out of the park with Salemua, Joe Phillips, Marcus Allen, James Hasty and so on.

Originally Posted by milkman

Through the later years of those 9 seasons, it was teams that relied heavily on the free agent market to continue to compete.

Well, they were in legitimate "Win Now" territory in 1993-1998. Even then, he brought in Woods, Tongue, Edwards and Gonzalez.

Originally Posted by milkman

Other than a couple of players, Carl's drafts were marginal, at best.

I certainly agree that during the Vermeil era, the drafts were total ass. But I think that Carl did as much as any GM in the league could do from 1989-1998. He drafted two second round QB's, signed Krieg, traded for Montana, got Bono, Grbac and Gannon. The effort was certainly there. It just didn't end like we Chiefs fans had hoped.

Pioli, OTOH, has failed big time in the QB department and his first heading coaching hire (and assistant coaches to boot) were an epic disaster in his first season. Time will tell if Romeo can right the ship.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Chiefaholic

I admit I'm too lazy to Google... But, wasn't Szott a castaway from the Jets prior to the Chiefs?

He went to the Jets after being drafted by the Chiefs in the 7th round of the 1990 draft.

He left KC because he said the level of care for his son (can't remember the ailment) was better (or something of that nature) on the East Coast.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Right. I've made that argument time and again over the years.



I disagree. Bringing in Mike Webster to help groom Grunhard was a good decision. Peterson also brought in Will Shields, Dave Szott, the aforementioned Derrick Thomas & Dave Szott, Dale Carter, Tony Gonzalez, Jerome Woods, Reggie Tongue and really hit it out of the park with Salemua, Joe Phillips, Marcus Allen, James Hasty and so on.



Well, they were in legitimate "Win Now" territory in 1993-1998. Even then, he brought in Woods, Tongue, Edwards and Gonzalez.



I certainly agree that during the Vermeil era, the drafts were total ass. But I think that Carl did as much as any GM in the league could do from 1989-1998. He drafted two second round QB's, signed Krieg, traded for Montana, got Bono, Grbac and Gannon. The effort was certainly there. It just didn't end like we Chiefs fans had hoped.

Pioli, OTOH, has failed big time in the QB department and his first heading coaching hire (and assistant coaches to boot) were an epic disaster in his first season. Time will tell if Romeo can right the ship.

The point is, though, that the foundation of those early teams, much like this team, was built by the regime before.

And the reality is that Carl's draft record was pretty mediocre.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Chiefaholic

Pioli is literally ONE player away from making this franchise a SERIOUS contender for years to come. Unfortunately it's the most important offensive position. Had Pioli signed for manning I doubt more than half of the posters here would still stand behind Scott.

The thing is, the NFL has become SO quarterback-centric, just about ANY monkey could make this, or any other franchise, a "serious contender" with just one trade or draft pick.

What Pioli has (or actually hasn't) done with QB position is almost criminal.

[Black Bob]

Wow.... How quickly we forget. Remember what it was like when we had Huard, Croyle, and Thigpen as our QB? Pioli did upgrade the QB position. The thing is that franchise QBs don't grow on trees. They are hard to find. I wish he had brought in someone to compete this year but he didn't. However, it takes two to tango. Campbell quickly signed with Chicago, Garrard with Miami, and Orton's last words on his way tot he airport were "this is Matt's team."

It's true that the only QB he passed on that we could have definately gotten was Dalton. The thing is that Pioli wanted Dalton. He met with Dalton more than any draft prospect that season. He really liked the guy. I remember seeing a picture of the two of them together and they were both wearing Chuck Taylors . I remember thinking this is a match made in heaven LOL. The thing is that Haley wanted a wide receiver and he wanted the guy from Pitt. He was a Pitt guy. In 2011, we upgraded the receiver position with Breaston and Baldwin for Haley. During the 2011 season, I think Pioli learned a valuable lesson about listening to you coach to much on personnel decisions. Dalton was in the argument for rookie of the year and Waters had the best season in his career. In KC, Lilja sucked after moving from RG to LG and Palko started some games at QB.

[htismaqe]

So we passed on Dalton because of Haley?

[milkman]

Originally Posted by BlackBob

Wow.... How quickly we forget. Remember what it was like when we had Huard, Croyle, and Thigpen as our QB? Pioli did upgrade the QB position. The thing is that franchise QBs don't grow on trees. They are hard to find. I wish he had brought in someone to compete this year but he didn't. However, it takes two to tango. Campbell quickly signed with Chicago, Garrard with Miami, and Orton's last words on his way tot he airport were "this is Matt's team."

It's true that the only QB he passed on that we could have definately gotten was Dalton. The thing is that Pioli wanted Dalton. He met with Dalton more than any draft prospect that season. He really liked the guy. I remember seeing a picture of the two of them together and they were both wearing Chuck Taylors . I remember thinking this is a match made in heaven LOL. The thing is that Haley wanted a wide receiver and he wanted the guy from Pitt. He was a Pitt guy. In 2011, we upgraded the receiver position with Breaston and Baldwin for Haley. During the 2011 season, I think Pioli learned a valuable lesson about listening to you coach to much on personnel decisions. Dalton was in the argument for rookie of the year and Waters had the best season in his career. In KC, Lilja sucked after moving from RG to LG and Palko started some games at QB.

[Black Bob]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

So we passed on Dalton because of Haley?

In my opinion, yes we did. Cassel just came off a playoff/pro bowl season and he wanted more weapons. Haley probably did not see Dalton as being that much different than Cassel and he's really not. Mechanics wise anyway. I think he's a more mentally tough.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by BlackBob

In my opinion, yes we did. Cassel just came off a playoff/pro bowl season and he wanted more weapons. Haley probably did not see Dalton as being that much different than Cassel and he's really not. Mechanics wise anyway. I think he's a more mentally tough.

One of the biggest reasons Haley isn't here anymore is because he couldn't work with Cassel.

Another big reason was because his ego couldn't co-exist with offensive coordinators who COULD work with Cassel.

Yet we're expected to believe that drafting guys like Baldwin and surrounding Cassel with more weapons, in order to maximize his talent (or further mask his flaws), was Haley's idea?

[Black Bob]

Originally Posted by milkman

Who's decision was it to have Tyler Palko be the back up QB? Pioli learned some lessons. In fact, if we had a vet earlier, Haley might still be here. Tyler Palko was the nail in the coffin for Haley.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by BlackBob

Who's decision was it to have Tyler Palko be the back up QB? Pioli learned some lessons. In fact, if we had a vet earlier, Haley might still be here. Tyler Palko was the nail in the coffin for Haley.

If Scott Pioli had actually brought in someone to compete, then Tyler Palko would have been serving you your soft food that doesn't require any knives or forks that your care giver was buying you at McDonald's when Cassel was hurt.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by milkman

If Scott Pioli had actually brought in someone to compete, then Tyler Palko would have been serving you your soft food that doesn't require any knives or forks that your care giver was buying you at McDonald's when Cassel was hurt.

This.

[Black Bob]

Originally Posted by milkman

If Scott Pioli had actually brought in someone to compete, then Tyler Palko would have been serving you your soft food that doesn't require any knives or forks that your care giver was buying you at McDonald's when Cassel was hurt.

I understand that. I have always wanted him to bring a vet in. I am happy he at least brought Quinn in. The thing is that it was 100% Haley's idea to make Palko the #2 and he believed in him. If he didn't, he would not have started him against Revis and Cromartie, the best CB tandem in the league, and thrown the ball on the first three plays of the game when we were still in the playoff hunt. What more proof do you need? That was about as delusional as a coach can get.

1st and 10 at KC 33 (Shotgun) T.Palko pass incomplete short right to D.Bowe (C.Pace).
2nd and 10 at KC 33 (Shotgun) T.Palko pass short right to D.Bowe to KC 38 for 5 yards (B.Pool).
3rd and 5 at KC 38 (Shotgun) T.Palko pass incomplete short middle to S.Breaston (J.Leonhard).
4th and 5 at KC 38 D.Colquitt punts 56 yards to NYJ 6, Center-T.Gafford, downed by KC-D.Johnson.