Goodbye Redskins and Indians and Braves and Chiefs

[Prison Bitch]

Rick Reilly, Columnist ESPN


Besides, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said last week that if "even one person is offended" on this issue, we need to "listen."

One person?

Got it. Guess we need to listen to people who are offended by the Kansas City Chiefs' name, too. That's one that offends my father-in-law. "You see some little guy wearing a headdress made of chicken feathers," he says, "painting his face up, making a mockery of us. I hate that. Those are things you earn."



Doesn't matter. The 81-year-old Washington Redskins name is falling, and everybody better get out of the way. For the majority of Native Americans who don't care, we'll care for them. For the Native Americans who haven't asked for help, we're glad to give it to them.

Trust us. We know what's best. We'll take this away for your own good, and put up barriers that protect you from ever being harmed again.

Kind of like a reservation.


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/96...ot-easy-sounds

[ChiefsFanatic]

Originally Posted by AussieChiefsFan

And as for the "Chiefs" name. Weren't they named after the Mayor of KC anyway?

Yes, but I wish I knew the story of how we decided on the Arrowhead logo and stadium name.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Thig Lyfe

This is a stupid, simplistic argument. Once again, context matters. If somebody decides "Steelers" or "Chargers" is a racial slur, that's silly. There's no historical context to support that. They would be offended for no good reason. People who are offended by "Redskins" are offended for a good reason. That reason being, it's a racial slur against a historically oppressed people.

Maybe try and think harder some time.



Therefore, we shouldn't fix anything that's wrong ever. Great argument. Haven't heard that one before, either.



That term is idiotic. Yeah, there are more important things than the Redskins. But when anybody tries to do something about gun control or economic inequality, the same people who defend the Redskins invoke the "pussification" thing again.

If not being cool with racial slurs makes me a pussy, I guess I'm a pussy. At least I'm not a ****ing simple amoral idiot.

You really are a stupid mother****er.

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by Whosurdaddy

There is no rainbow push for them, they are some of the least supported americans and it's not shocking at all that people say there aren't that many native americans against it. There aren't many left period.

I don't think it's pussification of america, it's just acceptable racism and an unwanted reminder of being shitty to other people because there really isn't anything they can do about it.

Wait a second, a few minutes ago Thig said there were literally nations of Indians united in their stance against this atrocity

In the meantime let's look at some history of the Native American mascot controversies:

The Seminole Tribe of Florida officially sanctions the use of the Seminole as Florida State University's nickname and of Osceola as FSU's symbol. In July 2005, the Seminole Nation General Council, the legislative body for the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma, voted 18-2 not to oppose the use of Native American names and mascots by college sports teams.

Other Indian tribes have also supported the use of their tribal names as a tribute to their heritage. The Ute Tribe approved the use of the name "Utes" for the University of Utah and the NCAA granted a waiver to allow the name to remain.

The Central Michigan University nickname, the Chippewas was originally placed on the "hostile or abusive" list but was removed when the Saginaw Chippewa Tribal Nation of Michigan gave its support to the nickname.

The University of North Dakota's former athletic logo, a Native American figure, was recently dropped. Due to the NCAA's perception that the term "Fighting Sioux" and the accompanying logo are offensive to native Americans, the NCAA pressured the university to discontinue use of the logo. When UND moved in the fall of 2009 to change its nickname, one of the two Sioux tribal councils in the state sued to have the name retained.

[ChiefsFanatic]

Originally Posted by Strongside

Native American here.

Europeans killed my ancestors and gave them smallpocks while taking their land and raping their women.

Why should I care about a football team named after my people?

Are you white folks offended at the 'Fighting Irish' stereotypical mascot?
What about the Tarheels? There was a time when that term, too, was offensive to some.
What about the gamecocks? We are ok with using a name that is reminiscent of animal cruelty in the cock-fighting game?

As a society, I think we should be less concerned about a few NA's getting their feelings hurt, and maybe use that same energy to provide assistance to the reservation communities across the country that battle poverty, lack of job availability, alcohol and drug abuse and a poor infrastructure every day. If you really care about these people and want to help them, then changing the name of a sports team is not the way to do it.

My wife's family is made up of several different tribes, and she is actually a card carrying member of the Sioux Nation. Her family has several members of the Seminole Nation, and they love that Florida State uses Seminole as their nickname. To them it means that their story will continue on.

[ChiefsFanatic]

Originally Posted by Molitoth

Another stupid thing:

When brown/black People (born in America) refer to themselves as African-Americans.

JFC, I am not a Swedish American.... I am White, you are Brown, Smurfs are blue... it's just an adjective.


Unless you were born in Africa, and come over to live in America... you are NOT an african American.

African-American isn't even accurate. Shouldn't it be Ethiopian-American, etc.?

[Strongside]

Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic

My wife's family is made up of several different tribes, and she is actually a card carrying member of the Sioux Nation. Her family has several members of the Seminole Nation, and they love that Florida State uses Seminole as their nickname. To them it means that their story will continue on.

Same here. CDIB card since birth.

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by Whosurdaddy

After North America was settled there was an 80% drop in the Native american population within a 100 years. Genocide, forced migration, systematic loss of cultural heritage ensured that many Native Americans were treated as bad as early blacks. The ramifications to this day shows that many indians that attempted to keep some identity still live on reservations that are some of the poorest places in the western hemisphere with poverty rates in the range of subsaharan africa. That is so shitty, and I don't feel any americans should live like that. There is no rainbow push for them, they are some of the least supported americans and it's not shocking at all that people say there aren't that many native americans against it. There aren't many left period.

I don't think it's pussification of america, it's just acceptable racism and an unwanted reminder of being shitty to other people because there really isn't anything they can do about it.

You left out the part where they wiped each other out as well. For example the Powhatans destroyed the Chesopians. Further, I've done misson work on reservations and they don't want any help.

[Raiderhater]

Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma

The resulting oppression was about as one-sided as possible.

On a continuum scale from 0-99, it was about a 98.

I am supposed to feel bad for people who were out matched because they failed to advance in education and technology like their enemies had through the centuries?

Did the nation handle the situation with the utmost class and dignity? Of course not. But the indians were far from poster children for humane treatment of their victims.

Like I said, history is not as one sided as people want to make it out to be.

[Whosurdaddy]

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

Wait a second, a few minutes ago Thig said there were literally nations of Indians united in their stance against this atrocity

In the meantime let's look at some history of the Native American mascot controversies:

The Seminole Tribe of Florida officially sanctions the use of the Seminole as Florida State University's nickname and of Osceola as FSU's symbol. In July 2005, the Seminole Nation General Council, the legislative body for the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma, voted 18-2 not to oppose the use of Native American names and mascots by college sports teams.

Other Indian tribes have also supported the use of their tribal names as a tribute to their heritage. The Ute Tribe approved the use of the name "Utes" for the University of Utah and the NCAA granted a waiver to allow the name to remain.

The Central Michigan University nickname, the Chippewas was originally placed on the "hostile or abusive" list but was removed when the Saginaw Chippewa Tribal Nation of Michigan gave its support to the nickname.

The University of North Dakota's former athletic logo, a Native American figure, was recently dropped. Due to the NCAA's perception that the term "Fighting Sioux" and the accompanying logo are offensive to native Americans, the NCAA pressured the university to discontinue use of the logo. When UND moved in the fall of 2009 to change its nickname, one of the two Sioux tribal councils in the state sued to have the name retained.

There aren't that many Native Americans anymore, that doesn't change that they still exist in a country with a population of 315 million. They are a relatively tiny minority in the United States.

Don't get me wrong I like the programs that try and go to the tribes for support and make an attempt to make the whole deal positive. The Unconquered trademark and the spear into the field are awesome school traditions. FSU is a great example of what I think is the best solution. I'd say the braves, Chiefs, Blackhawks are pretty positive.

I don't really have a very strong opinion on any native american themed franchises outside of the Redskins. I can see how some may feel that the mascot for the cleveland indians seems a bit looney toon black face tasteless, but the name indians doesn't seem all that offensive in of itself. On the other side, the Redskins name is a particularly egregious example, but the decal doesn't bother me much.

[Whosurdaddy]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

You left out the part where they wiped each other out as well. For example the Powhatans destroyed the Chesopians. Further, I've done misson work on reservations and they don't want any help.

I agree, they weren't all peace loving communal tribes in a constant state of harmony. It's disingenuous to think so. However, an 80% drop in the native american population within a 100 years is a pretty horrifying statistic. Nobody lost out more on the colonization of america than the native americans.

I've been on reservations as well, and there are some that don't want to get help. I don't think that's much different than what you see in the inner city. However, there is a lot more aid programs and education initiatives for the inner city than for third world type situations found on some of the reservations in the midwest.

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by Whosurdaddy

There aren't that many Native Americans anymore.

Many Americans have Native American blood. You just can't tell by looking at them. I get your point and it's valid, but I am 11th generation North American. My ancestors lived in Jamestown. We mated with them, they mated with us. So I guess it depends on your definition of Native American.

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by Whosurdaddy

There aren't that many Native Americans anymore, that doesn't change that they still exist in a country with a population of 315 million. They are a relatively tiny minority in the United States.

Don't get me wrong I like the programs that try and go to the tribes for support and make an attempt to make the whole deal positive. The Unconquered trademark and the spear into the field are awesome school traditions. FSU is a great example of what I think is the best solution. I'd say the braves, Chiefs, Blackhawks are pretty positive.

I don't really have a very strong opinion on any native american themed franchises outside of the Redskins. I can see how some may feel that the mascot for the cleveland indians seems a bit looney toon black face tasteless, but the name indians doesn't seem all that offensive in of itself. On the other side, the Redskins name is a particularly egregious example, but the decal doesn't bother me much.

I think it's ridiculous that we have to revisit this every year. Owners, fans and Indians themselves don't appear to be offended. Some tribes even sue to get their name back as a mascot yet there is always somebody who knows what's best for everyone spouting off about who should be offended and those who fall hook, line and sinker for it every time.

[NinerDoug]

I don't see Chiefs or Braves as being offensive to anyone. Indians? Not certain.

Redskins? Too bad they didn't pick a better name. That one will probably go by the wayside eventually.

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Many Americans have Native American blood. You just can't tell by looking at them. I get your point and it's valid, but I am 11th generation North American. My ancestors lived in Jamestown. We mated with them, they mated with us. So I guess it depends on your definition of Native American.

great grandma on my dad's side was full blooded Apache...prolly why I still have my hair...

[Swanman]

Being an alum of the University of Illinois, we had all of the Chief Illiniwek nonsense. It was a bunch of mostly white people campaigning against him until we got rid of him. After that, they weren't even happy. They wanted us to lose the name Fighting Illini as well. Luckily that didn't happen. There is one constant with these PC dipshits: they will NEVER be satisfied.

Another team that they are trying to go after is the Chicago Blackhawks. Good luck with that, dickheads.