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Old 12-11-2024, 02:49 PM   #1
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It’s amazing that anyone criticizes this move. He’s an incredible pass blocking C.

Using the same tweets I guess you can argue we should make Trey Smith the highest paid guard also.


There's just no rhyme or reason to give a center $50mil guaranteed when the position is so easily replaceable. We've proven it many times over. Hell we had Austin Reiter at center for 2 seasons and didn't miss a beat in 2019 and 2020.

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Old 12-11-2024, 03:14 PM   #2
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It’s amazing that anyone criticizes this move. He’s an incredible pass blocking C.

The question is not, and has never been, the player.

It's the position.

Creed is almost identical in Thuney in that regard. There's not a player at that position I'd rather have on this team than Joe Thuney.

The question is whether or not it matters all that much. Because BOTH of those guys are playing at/near their peaks and this OL is still struggling.

Meanwhile when we had Austin Reiter out there with better OT play, the OL looked much better as an aggregate.

So does paying the C, good as he is, really move the needle that much? And in a cap league, isn't that the most critical question? How much does the money you're spending really move things. Paying huge money to a a great player at a position of minimal impact isn't terribly dissimilar from playing huge money to an average player at a position of massive impact.

Would we be better with Caliendo at C and an average pass blocking OT making $18 million/season than we are with Morris at LT and an $18 million center? I'd say we probably would be.

It's not the player - it's the position.
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Old 12-11-2024, 03:22 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
The question is not, and has never been, the player.

It's the position.

Creed is almost identical in Thuney in that regard. There's not a player at that position I'd rather have on this team than Joe Thuney.

The question is whether or not it matters all that much. Because BOTH of those guys are playing at/near their peaks and this OL is still struggling.

Meanwhile when we had Austin Reiter out there with better OT play, the OL looked much better as an aggregate.

So does paying the C, good as he is, really move the needle that much? And in a cap league, isn't that the most critical question? How much does the money you're spending really move things. Paying huge money to a a great player at a position of minimal impact isn't terribly dissimilar from playing huge money to an average player at a position of massive impact.

Would we be better with Caliendo at C and an average pass blocking OT making $18 million/season than we are with Morris at LT and an $18 million center? I'd say we probably would be.

It's not the player - it's the position.
Been saying this for a couple years now. This is the worst our line as looked over the course of a season and we decided to neglect LT and pay C.
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Old 12-11-2024, 03:24 PM   #4
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Been saying this for a couple years now. This is the worst our line as looked over the course of a season and we decided to neglect LT and pay C.
They didn't neglect LT.
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Old 12-11-2024, 03:44 PM   #5
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They didn't neglect LT.
Morris who was awful last year OR we roll with an unproven rookie.

What would you call it?
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Old 12-11-2024, 03:50 PM   #6
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Been saying this for a couple years now. This is the worst our line as looked over the course of a season and we decided to neglect LT and pay C.
What LT was available to sign in FA? What good LT in the draft was available?
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Old 12-11-2024, 03:59 PM   #7
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What LT was available to sign in FA? What good LT in the draft was available?
BINGO. People around here act like we can just go down to the LT store and buy what we need. Seriously, people are now saying Cam Robinson should be a FA target in the off season. Bobby is getting excited about cam Robinson and I’m not convinced it makes us better.

And for the record, I’m all for trading tons of draft capital to fit the issues. I would have done that in a heartbeat for Alt.
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Old 12-11-2024, 03:17 PM   #8
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Ah - I see King has largely made this point...

You can ignore me now - I just talk a lot.
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Old 12-11-2024, 03:30 PM   #9
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Trey Smith has not been good. He’s struggled in pass pro and many of us have noticed.

I don’t see that ever happening with Creed. It’s rare.
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Old 12-11-2024, 03:43 PM   #10
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In his defense, Trey Smith has been having a harder time now that Jawaan is next to him and always takes a deep passpro drop and causing Trey to handle outside heat as well as interior pressure.

Jawaan is more the problem than Trey.. IMO
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Old 12-11-2024, 04:07 PM   #11
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In his defense, Trey Smith has been having a harder time now that Jawaan is next to him and always takes a deep passpro drop and causing Trey to handle outside heat as well as interior pressure.

Jawaan is more the problem than Trey.. IMO
Mitch said it - don't make it true.

I've looked into this, it's just not accurate. Taylor isn't out there taking abnormally deep drops. He does what OTs do and folks decided to take Mitch's word as Gospel because they were predisposed to disliking Taylor due to the penalties last season.
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Old 12-11-2024, 04:14 PM   #12
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Mitch said it - don't make it true.

I've looked into this, it's just not accurate. Taylor isn't out there taking abnormally deep drops. He does what OTs do and folks decided to take Mitch's word as Gospel because they were predisposed to disliking Taylor due to the penalties last season.
This. I haven't done it as much this year but I do occasionally watch the All 22. Trey is not struggling because of Taylor. The majority of his problems have been him just getting beat hard right up the middle.
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Old 12-11-2024, 04:19 PM   #13
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This. I haven't done it as much this year but I do occasionally watch the All 22. Trey is not struggling because of Taylor. The majority of his problems have been him just getting beat hard right up the middle.
Never underestimate the dopamine hit that comes with a 'name' telling you what you wanted to hear.

If anything, the idea that Smith has struggled in pass protection may be a little overstated. He's lost ugly a few times and that's created the belief (I certainly had it).

But when you dig into the numbers he's been no worse than solid in pass pro.

What it's starting to look like is that interior pass protection just isn't moving the needle as much right now. And that seems to be confirmed by what we're seeing from our DL despite having the most dominant interior pass-rusher in the NFL.

It's just looking more and more like we have a misallocation of talent and, going forward, perhaps a bit of a misallocation of resources as Thuney and Creed end up with the highest cap figures at their respective positions in the NFL. They could be EXCEPTIONAL at pass protection (in fact, they are) and it's still not solving our fundamental pass pro issues.

What you need on the interior is 'solid'. Once you get past that, your marginal returns on 'spectacular' seem pretty minimal.
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Old 12-11-2024, 03:49 PM   #14
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The problem with that logic is what LT is out there that we could have purchased instead? The real issue is the scarcity of good players at the LT position.
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Old 12-11-2024, 04:09 PM   #15
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The problem with that logic is what LT is out there that we could have purchased instead? The real issue is the scarcity of good players at the LT position.
Nobody yet.

And Creed hasn't cost any money yet.

The point isn't that it's impacted us to this stage as the contract hasn't kicked in. It's that it very well COULD going forward and this season (and previous ones) demonstrate very clearly how.

A guy like Cam Robinson is going to be more difficult for us to sign and firm up the LT position for the next several years because we'll have Creed's contract on the books instead.

Nobody's frustrated by what the contract HAS done - it hasn't started yet. The conversation is as to what the contract COULD do in the future.
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