How does Dwayne Bowe rank among the elite WR's?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Sorry, didn't want this getting overlooked in the other thread. Then again, people will probably ignore it anyway - I know some of you will appreciate this.


I keep seeing people say that Dwayne Bowe isn't an elite WR. So I decided to do some research to see how he matches up statistically over his 5 years in the league.

What I found, is that statistically, Bowe is the 10th best WR of the last 5 years.

I found 9 other WR's that either had better yardage totals, better TD numbers or both. He was 10th in yardage, tied for 6th in TD's.

Here's the list. (Yardage/TD's) Bolded players have fewer or same TD's as Bowe.


Larry Fitzgerald - 6480/49

Roddy White - 6422/42

Reggie Wayne - 6234/36

Wes Welker - 6105/31

Calvin Johnson - 5872/49

Andre Johnson - 5703/35

Greg Jennings - 5539/46

Steve Smith - 5353/29

Marques Colston - 5202/40

Dwayne Bowe - 4927/36


Personally, I think that's impressive on its own.

Especially when you consider the only guy on this list who is younger is Megatron. I'd be curious to see how he matches up to the same players during each of their first 5 seasons.

Anyway, when you compare Bowe's number's to the #1 yardage and #1 TD's - he's not nearly as far off as it seems.

It comes down to 19.41 yard a game, and .16 TD's per game.

Factor in that Bowe is missing something the other 9 have - solid QB play.

After looking at this, its hard for me to say Dwayne Bowe is NOT an elite WR, considering how his numbers match up to the "elite" and never having the benefit of decent QB play.

I'm pretty confident in saying that with solid QB play, Bowe would easily make up 19.41 yards and .16 TD's a game.

Like him or not, he's an elite WR - and has shown it over his 5 years in the league.

Dude deserved elite money.

Or, tl;dr - **** him.

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Really? Seriously?

"We" don't need to "know" the numbers. The end result gives anyone and everyone a clear picture. There's no way that Dwayne Bowe was offered a competitive market value offer that included a reasonable guaranteed portion, yet he declined to sign it.

Because players are always reasonable about their contract demands?
I'd like to think he wouldn't turn $60m overall down, but if he has an inflated sense of what he's worth...

You're missing the point. The Chiefs can't say "Well, we didn't pay Carr because we need to pay Bowe", then NOT pay either. They then can't come back and say "Well, we didn't pay Bowe because we needed to pay Albert & Dorsey" with a straight face.

If you make it cut and dry sure, but we know it isn't.
It always depended upon a reasonable contract negotiation between the FO and Bowe. And again, what pressure is Bowe under to accept the FO's terms. He holds all the cards here. He's locked in for $9.5m this year. If he plays well, he'll hit the open market in 2013 with even bigger demands. If he somehow falters and Baldwin doesn't impress, the option to re-sign him is still on the table. He's playing with "house money".

Furthermore, WR's, even first round WR's, generally take a while to develop (if they develop, at all). Bowe's been a solid contributor since his rookie season. Why let that guy go, especially when you're sitting at $16 million under the cap?

Under favorable conditions, you don't.

Of course it's awful, which is why that teams will be required to spend 99% of the salary cap in future years. And probably why Clark Hunt decided NOT to pay Bowe: More money in his pocket, which IMO, hurts the team and the fans.

Perhaps on its face, but that's a false dichotomy in my view.
Overspend or the money returns to the evil miser's wallet.
I don't buy that. There's something in the middle.

Bad decision? What in Dwayne Bowe's past would lead to believe that paying him market value or even slightly above would result in hurting an NFL team?

I think the offer I proposed is slightly above "market". I'm not opposed to that. Just making the point that another team's willingness to make a bad decision shouldn't inform what this FO does.

To the first part, he was ranked as a Top Ten potential free agent but no where was it suggested he'd sign a $50 million dollar deal with $26.5 in guarantees. To the latter, that's unfounded speculation on your part.

Dude, he cried after signing with Dallas.
We can agree to disagree.

Again, that's speculation, so let's deal with what we DO know: Both sides negotiated but couldn't come to an agreement. The Chiefs are willing to pay him the Franchise number, but aren't willing to sign him long term at this point. Bowe has never stated that he wanted out of Kansas City - quite to the contrary. At the Nike Event, he praised Crennel and, IIRC, said he wanted to end his career in KC.

All public indications are that he doesn't want out.

And exactly how many of those do we have?
Generic second-hand press clippings that suggest he'll sign the tender and play? That doesn't indicate any future plans to play in Kansas City.

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Given his overall body of work and relative worth to the Chiefs? Absolutely.

His overall body of work suggests he's one of the four best WR's in the NFL?

It's beyond funny for me to read that fans would pay 35 but wouldn't go 40, as if this has any bearing whatsoever for what the organization would be able to do going forward.

Got it.
Pay $40,000 for a car that you really oughta pay $35,000 for...because you have it. Brilliant.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Micjones

Because players are always reasonable about their contract demands?

In an effort to not spend all day refuting each other's position, I say we call a truce and agree to disagree on this topic.

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

In an effort to not spend all day refuting each other's position, I say we call a truce and agree to disagree on this topic.

Fair enough.

In closing, I'd love to see Dwayne Bowe return to this team and hope the FO can get that done at some point.

[BigChiefFan]

They got cheap. Plain and simple. They could have had a team with Bowe and Carr re-signed long-term and still added Winston. Passed on Routt and been a better team in the long-run.

Penny-pinching is no way to run a professional sports franchise. Costs of the team are covered and Hunt still pockets $40 MILLION each year, AFTER all the team expenses have been paid. Problem is he wants that $40 million profit, PLUS be able to not spend up to the cap.

We have a greedy, penny-pinchin' miser running the team, who would rather cut corners, than doing what it takes to improve long-term. There's ample cap room. Clark just didn't want to have to give the signing bonus money. He's a tight-ass and has no business running an NFL franchise.

Half-assed ownership, who's not commited fully to the product, that he reaps the rewards from. What a friggin' nightmare for fans.

[the Talking Can]

Originally Posted by Micjones

His overall body of work suggests he's one of the four best WR's in the NFL?



Got it.
Pay $40,000 for a car that you really oughta pay $35,000 for...because you have it. Brilliant.

um, it's not our money, so why do you care? the objective is winning, not hoarding money

and 'oughta' has nothing to do with it anyways, there is no objective # in contract negotiations for an athlete...

but you really do worry about Clark's money...like a lot

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

um, it's not our money, so why do you care? the objective is winning, not hoarding money

It's not our team either. Now what?

but you really do worry about Clark's money...like a lot

And if you keep spouting the same dumb shit for the rest of the day, it'll eventually cover up your inability to construct a rational rebuttal.

I'd ask you why you think me proposing a contract that would make him, by far, the highest paid player on this team is protecting Clark's money...but your head might explode.

[philfree]

I'm not up in arms about this situation. Because of a couple of huge WR contracts the WR market is really up there right now. Several players are trying to take advantage of that and becasuse of that several teams have WRs who are playing under the franhchise tag. I don't blame the WRs for trying to maximize their contracts but I also don't blame the teams for not wanting to pay such huge money. It's just the nature of the beast and that's why the NFL has adopted the rules it has.

It also takes two sides to make a deal and it takes two sides not to make a deal.

We've got Bowe for this season and we have enough money to sign Albert to a long term deal during the season. We should get that done and then we can deal with Bowe next year. We'll probably have to tag him again and then we'll probably give him the opportunity to seek a trade. Other teams might not want to give up enough compensation to gain his rights though so he'll be stuck a Chief. When that's realized Bowe may lower his demands enough to get a long term deal and a big wad of guaranteed money.

Looks like typical NFL business to me.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by Micjones

Got it.
Pay $40,000 for a car that you really oughta pay $35,000 for...because you have it. Brilliant.

If finding a #1 WR were as easy as finding a similar car within a general price point, this analogy might have some chance of working.

[Hammock Parties]

Yeah that analogy sucks.

It's more like...bidding on a rare work of art at an auction.

And you just happen to have exclusive rights to purchase this fine art...before it goes up for public bidding...but you won't spend a few thousand more because god dammit, your father told you never to buy art that way.

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

If finding a #1 WR were as easy as finding a similar car within a general price point, this analogy might have some chance of working.

Not like there were a half-dozen up for grabs just this past off-season.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Micjones

Got it.
Pay $40,000 for a car that you really oughta pay $35,000 for...because you have it. Brilliant.

The MSRP might be 35, but the dealer is selling it for 40. And in this bizarre cars=football players world, there are no more cars available for purchase. And none of the cars we have in our garage back home are likely going to be good enough to win the race.

So yeah, you buy the car if you want to win the race.

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by Toad King

Yeah that analogy sucks.

It's more like...bidding on a rare work of art at an auction.

And you just happen to have exclusive rights to purchase this fine art...before it goes up for public bidding...but you won't spend a few thousand more because god dammit, your father told you never to buy art that way.

Well then I suppose we have two bad analogies.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Toad King

Yeah that analogy sucks.

It's more like...bidding on a rare work of art at an auction.

And you just happen to have exclusive rights to purchase this fine art...before it goes up for public bidding...but you won't spend a few thousand more because god dammit, your father told you never to buy art that way.

Better

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by SNR

The MSRP might be 35, but the dealer is selling it for 40. And in this bizarre cars=football players world, there are no more cars available for purchase. And none of the cars we have in our garage back home are likely going to be good enough to win the race.

So yeah, you buy the car if you want to win the race.

Or you take the year you have, with the car you have, and see what can be done later.
That car you bought a year ago might afford you the luxury of letting the #82 car go.