Chiefs Stop blaming the play calling. - Page 9

acesn8s · 12-12-2010, 11:36 PM

Croyle failed today because he sucks ass. Everything was called as normal except an end around. And its not like that play is called every game anyways. Croyle was in the shotgun, under center, play action, threw deep, threw short, screens, and bootlegs. The play calling was not the problem of our offense; decision making was the problem. Croyle checks down too much and tries to throw a bullet on short pass plays. His accuracy is horrible. And he is indecisive when pressured.

Here is a breakdown of his performance.

After 4 straight runs gaining 13 yards and a 1st down, Croyle throws on 3rd and 10 to Copper for a WR screen losing 1 yard. Chiefs punt.

After a 1 yard loss by Jones, Croyle checks down to Charles for a gain of 4 yards on 2nd and 11 while a wide open McCluster breaks to the sideline with room to run. On 3rd and 7 Croyle over throws Copper. Chiefs punt.

On 1st and 10, Croyle is sacked for a 12 yard loss after a horrible attempt of a play action fake. After a run by Charles, Croyle checks down with a quick throw to Moeaki for 8 yards on 3rd and 18. Chiefs punt.

After Charles gains a 1st down and 16 yards, Croyle passes on a bootleg on 2nd and 4 to Moeaki for 5 yards. After a 2 yard run by Charles, Croyle throws a deep incomplete pass out of bounds toward Bowe. From the shotgun position on 3rd and 8 Croyle checks down to Bowe on an underneath route for 3 yards. Chiefs Punt.

From the shotgun position on 1st and 10, Croyle throws an incomplete pass toward Bow that was high and away from Bowe. From the shotgun position on 2nd and 10, Croyle throws over the middle to Copper for a 16 yard gain. From the shotgun position on 1st and 10, Croyle steps up in the pocket and checks down to Charles for 5 yards. From the shotgun position on 2nd and 5, Croyle throws a high pass toward Bowe deep that falls incomplete. From the shotgun position on 3rd and 5, Croyle holds the ball for 4 seconds before running back toward 2 of the 3 pass rushers and is sacked for a 11 yard loss. Halftime.

After two rushes by Charles and a gain of 3 yards, Croyle targets Bowe again and again throws an incomplete pass on 3rd and 7. He never takes his eyes off Bowe and throws a bullet that a diving Bowe cannot handle. Chiefs punt.

After two rushes by Charles and a gain of 4 yards, Croyle targets Bowe again and again throws an incomplete pass on 3rd and 16. Croyle play fakes to an invisible RB, bootlegs and throws to a covered Bowe on the sideline. Chiefs punt.

On 1st and 10, Croyle looks right, cocks to throw but never does and is sacked for a 6 yard loss. On 2nd and 16, Croyle under throws Bowe deep and the ball is deflected by the defender for an incomplete pass. On 3rd and 16 from the shotgun position, Croyle throws a screen pass toward Charles into the hands of a defensive lineman for an incomplete pass. Chiefs punt.

On 1st and 15 from the shotgun position, Croyle's 18 yard pass is well defended and falls incomplete. Tucker never gets his hands on the ball. On 2nd and 15 from the shotgun position, Croyle's 13 yard pass is knocked down by the defender and falls incomplete. Tucker never touches the ball. On 3rd and 15 from the shotgun position, Croyle steps up in the pocket, pump fakes and is sacked; never releasing the ball even though McCluster is apparently open near the first down marker. Chiefs punt.

Palko enters the game and goes 2 of 3 for 8 yards. Croyle's day is done going 7 of 17 for 40 yards.

**HemiEd** · 12-13-2010, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acesn8s

You are talking about Croyle, right?

You might want to go back and read the post.

chiefzilla1501 · 12-13-2010, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

So do you think "Captain Checkdown" is damaged goods from the Herm era?

I did find it encouraging, to see his helmet actually move, when looking for an open receiver.

I just assumed he was being told to "no matter what" don't turn the ball over (same as Herm), so he was playing safe as instructed.

We will just have to disagree on the aggressive game plan thought though, to me it was ultra conservative, until there was no choice.

I was too pissed after the game to save the DVR of it.

I don't know if he's damaged goods. I wouldn't be surprised if that was something that was hammered into his head by Curl/Herm (wasn't there a clip where Curl demanded his QBs learn to check down?) The fact that his helmet moved leads me to believe that he was scanning the field and decided on the checkdown. That means the problem wasn't the playcalling, but the QB that was afraid to throw it downfield or perhaps wasn't smart enough to see the right read in his scan.

He's an inexperienced QB that looked like one. Like I said in another thread, I thought he looked much better as the game went on and in fairness, those are habits he might get rid of with experience. I don't think this game necessarily says he flat-out sucks, but for the first half, he sucked and that's on him, not the playcalling or offensive line.

acesn8s · 12-13-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayhawkerman2001

how many times was croyle sacked today!? how many times has cassel been sacked this year?

Croyle was sacked 4 times. Cassel has taken 17 sacks this year.

acesn8s · 12-13-2010, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Well, I think the team walked in with a defeated attitude. They didn't have confidence in Croyle and that's a reflection of coaching--they can't make the team feel like they have no chance to win just b/c the backup's in.

I do wonder if the Chiefs had a chance with Cassel. I think the gameplan would have been more open, he would have taken better advantage of his pocket, and the defense would have been more respectful of the pass. That's all guesswork, though. QUite possible Cassel lays a big gooseegg against SD.

I didn't expect to win before Cassel was out, but I didn't expect them to fail at every 3rd down conversion attempt either.

acesn8s · 12-13-2010, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

Here is the point I've done a very poor job of getting across: unless I've missed something Croyle threw the least amount of passes this week of any starting QB and lost by the BIGGEST margin.

I would have felt better about Croyle being 7 of 30 than 7 of 17.

I'm not going to argue the extra passing attempts would make him more comfortable, more in the game, or more productive. Not at all.

ONLY THAT WE WERE TRYING TO WIN.

It would mean that on 3rd and 12 we tried to get 12. Or down by 21 we actually WANTED to catch up and cared that time was running out...

Croyle would have gotten more attempts if they would have gotten more first downs. Croyle rushed into checkdowns before WRs made their breaks or held on to the ball until they made their breaks and the defense adjusted. Settling for the wide open guy underneath is what the defense wanted and Croyle gave it to them.

acesn8s · 12-13-2010, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meat Dragon

not even?

If Croyle rallied the team and led them to a win and posted a line of something like...

21-30 for 250 and 2 TD's...

he could've drawn, easily, a starting QB contract from a number of teams

instead his career went right down the drain

that was his last chance

I feel bad for the guy

Who? Who is so bad that they would have taken Croyle, even with those stats, and given up on every other QB in the league and pass on all QBs coming out of college?

You need to lay off the pipe cause you are high.

or stupid.

acesn8s · 12-13-2010, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meat Dragon

absolutely

he was a fairly high draft pick with a ton of talent

this was basically a playoff clinching game for us...he had the chance to be in the spotlight and earn his pay and set up his family for generations

if he had a monster game, or even an average game, or any sort of game where he flashed some of that "potential"...

there would have been a number of teams that would have taken a chance on him

or did you already forget about San Diego, Seattle and Charlie Whitehurst?

you did, didn't you?

By your logic, John Beck is one good game away from becoming a starter in this league?

acesn8s · 12-13-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

Third ****ing round...

You do realize he had A WHOLE ****ING SEASON to do the same thing before, right?

No GM worth a **** is going to make his mind up based on 17 passes in one game...

May Croyle become a Raider next year.

acesn8s · 12-13-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

I am not sure you even watched the game. You missed the tight end drop, as you admitted earlier in this thread.

The first series was key, very key. The Chiefs won the toss, they needed to do something, but no, do exactly what the Chargers expected. The Chargers jumped all over it, stuffed the conservative calls, and came right down and scored, now you are behind.

Why not do something like the Eagles did last night to start the game? Did you see that? The Eagles were playing on the road, in front of hostile crowd, similar to the Chiefs.

The only tight end drop that I saw wasn't even thrown by Croyle. It was thrown by Palko.

If there is another give me the time in the game and I will go back and look.

acesn8s · 12-13-2010, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bane

"Stop blaming the play calling"

Or what?

Quote:

Or look like dumbass.

Oops. Too late.

**** you and the play calling.The way that game was called is complete bullshit,and absolutely without a doubt one of the worst game plans I have ever witnessed in my life.
Eat shit and die you goddamn ****tard.

Really? You wish for my death?

tarheel23 · 12-13-2010, 07:26 PM

Croyle sucks, Cassel sucks. Guess what we don't have a QB. Croyle failed to put points on the board and Cassel only put 10 on Denver at home.

acesn8s · 12-13-2010, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Well we are in agreement on the first drive, on how it went down. My main problem is what it did to the team's chances on future drives, not just that it failed.

The second drive, the only reason they tried two passes, was because Thomas Jones got stuffed for -1 yard on 1st down.

Then on second down and 114, they really opened it up for a four yard pass to Jamaal Charles, so now it is third and 7. Do you not think that play was called by the Coaching staff?
Guess what is coming now?
No time for Croyle due to the Ole' offensive line, and he made a desperation pass to Copper.

The 2nd down play was not designed for a short pass. DMC hadn't even made his break when Croyle threw to Charles. If it was designed to go to Charles DMC would have been in a position to block his defender, Had Croyle waited for the play to develop DMC had beat his man and had room to run.

Quote:

The third drive, still only down by 7, as SD had to punt.

Offensive line total fail, total whiff.
Brodie sacked for a 12 yard loss. Now what play would you call on second and 22? Hmmm, how about a JC run for 4 yards?
3rd and 18, short completion to Moeaki for 8 yards,
punt again.

Had Croyle sold the play fake he may have bought himself enough time to finish his roll out and make an attempt.

As for the 3rd and 18 play, there are not many designed plays for that distance but an attempt down field would have been nice. You know, since Croyle has such a strong arm and all.

Quote:

Okay, now down by 14, time to really open it up! (this will be the best drive and highlight of the day)
4th drive
JC for 10 yards 1st down!
JC for 6 yards
Moeaki catch for 5 yards 1st down!
JC for 2 yards
Pass to Bowe dropped
Pass to Bowe for 3 yards
Punt

Bowe did not drop that pass. It was thrown out of bounds and out of reach of Bowe for him to bring it in cleanly. The second Bowe pass was an outlet pass designed to take advantage of the vacated middle field, however, the Chargers did not vacate/Bowe didn't find the hole and that pass should have gone somewhere else. Maybe downfield, since Croyle has such a strong arm and all.

Quote:

21 to nothing. Game over, they have to be totally one dimensional now, thanks for playing.

I fail to see where the game was opened up. At that time Croyle was 5 for 7, for 11 yards. These short passes are not his strength as all of us know, but then again, Weiss said he was just getting aqauinted with Croyle on Wednesday.
They had rushed 10 times for 30 yards.

That is some pretty damning evidence on the whole Offense, the game plan and play calling in my opinion.

Croyle has always chose to throw the check down passes. I don't know if he is that afraid of Haley yelling at him for taking a chance or what but he did the same thing under Herm.

12-12-2010, 11:36 PM
acesn8s MVP Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Here Casino cash: $10007119	Stop blaming the play calling. Croyle failed today because he sucks ass. Everything was called as normal except an end around. And its not like that play is called every game anyways. Croyle was in the shotgun, under center, play action, threw deep, threw short, screens, and bootlegs. The play calling was not the problem of our offense; decision making was the problem. Croyle checks down too much and tries to throw a bullet on short pass plays. His accuracy is horrible. And he is indecisive when pressured. Here is a breakdown of his performance. After 4 straight runs gaining 13 yards and a 1st down, Croyle throws on 3rd and 10 to Copper for a WR screen losing 1 yard. Chiefs punt. After a 1 yard loss by Jones, Croyle checks down to Charles for a gain of 4 yards on 2nd and 11 while a wide open McCluster breaks to the sideline with room to run. On 3rd and 7 Croyle over throws Copper. Chiefs punt. On 1st and 10, Croyle is sacked for a 12 yard loss after a horrible attempt of a play action fake. After a run by Charles, Croyle checks down with a quick throw to Moeaki for 8 yards on 3rd and 18. Chiefs punt. After Charles gains a 1st down and 16 yards, Croyle passes on a bootleg on 2nd and 4 to Moeaki for 5 yards. After a 2 yard run by Charles, Croyle throws a deep incomplete pass out of bounds toward Bowe. From the shotgun position on 3rd and 8 Croyle checks down to Bowe on an underneath route for 3 yards. Chiefs Punt. From the shotgun position on 1st and 10, Croyle throws an incomplete pass toward Bow that was high and away from Bowe. From the shotgun position on 2nd and 10, Croyle throws over the middle to Copper for a 16 yard gain. From the shotgun position on 1st and 10, Croyle steps up in the pocket and checks down to Charles for 5 yards. From the shotgun position on 2nd and 5, Croyle throws a high pass toward Bowe deep that falls incomplete. From the shotgun position on 3rd and 5, Croyle holds the ball for 4 seconds before running back toward 2 of the 3 pass rushers and is sacked for a 11 yard loss. Halftime. After two rushes by Charles and a gain of 3 yards, Croyle targets Bowe again and again throws an incomplete pass on 3rd and 7. He never takes his eyes off Bowe and throws a bullet that a diving Bowe cannot handle. Chiefs punt. After two rushes by Charles and a gain of 4 yards, Croyle targets Bowe again and again throws an incomplete pass on 3rd and 16. Croyle play fakes to an invisible RB, bootlegs and throws to a covered Bowe on the sideline. Chiefs punt. On 1st and 10, Croyle looks right, cocks to throw but never does and is sacked for a 6 yard loss. On 2nd and 16, Croyle under throws Bowe deep and the ball is deflected by the defender for an incomplete pass. On 3rd and 16 from the shotgun position, Croyle throws a screen pass toward Charles into the hands of a defensive lineman for an incomplete pass. Chiefs punt. On 1st and 15 from the shotgun position, Croyle's 18 yard pass is well defended and falls incomplete. Tucker never gets his hands on the ball. On 2nd and 15 from the shotgun position, Croyle's 13 yard pass is knocked down by the defender and falls incomplete. Tucker never touches the ball. On 3rd and 15 from the shotgun position, Croyle steps up in the pocket, pump fakes and is sacked; never releasing the ball even though McCluster is apparently open near the first down marker. Chiefs punt. Palko enters the game and goes 2 of 3 for 8 yards. Croyle's day is done going 7 of 17 for 40 yards.
Posts: 5,711

12-13-2010, 07:26 PM	#131
tarheel23 Starter Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Southwest MO Casino cash: $6535920	Croyle sucks, Cassel sucks. Guess what we don't have a QB. Croyle failed to put points on the board and Cassel only put 10 on Denver at home.
Posts: 127