What makes you a Matt Cassel fan next season?

[petegz28]

What does he have to do to convince you he is worth the starting spot? I won't say worth the $ cause I don't think that will ever happen but, that being said....

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by tonyetony

Don't underestimate the value of good line play to the value of of good QB performance.



I realize Cassel took a lot of sacks during his 11 wins at New England but you have to admit that our O-line was one of the worst in the NFL for at least 12 of our games this year.

Brady was sacked 21 times in 2007.

Cassel sacked 47 times in 2008.

Brady sacked 20 times in 2009.

Cassel was sacked 42 times in 2009.

Sometimes, it's the QB and sometimes it's the line.

I think Cassel is just going to be "one of those guys".

And Chiefs fans WAY overvalue the offensive line and underrate playmakers.

[TigerPig]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Brady was sacked 21 times in 2007.

Cassel sacked 47 times in 2008.

Brady sacked 20 times in 2009.

Cassel was sacked 42 times in 2009.

Sometimes, it's the QB and sometimes it's the line.

I think Cassel is just going to be "one of those guys".

And Chiefs fans WAY overvalue the offensive line and underrate playmakers.

I respect your opinion, but am totally perplexed how you can say we overvalue an offensive line when you saw FIRST HAND as a Chief fan how amazing things can go when you have a future HOF LT. That team was BETTER because of him and he didn't touch the ball. Do you not think Roaf made the Chiefs SIGNIFICANTLY better by being there?

[58kcfan89]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Brady was sacked 21 times in 2007.

Cassel sacked 47 times in 2008.

Brady sacked 20 times in 2009.

Cassel was sacked 42 times in 2009.

Sometimes, it's the QB and sometimes it's the line.

I think Cassel is just going to be "one of those guys".

And Chiefs fans WAY overvalue the offensive line and underrate playmakers.

Fair enough (and FTR, I'm not blaming all of Cassel's mistakes on the OL), but throwing to Lance Long & Bobby Wade isn't exactly a great way to scare a defense.... IMO, a QB's only as good as his WRs and OL, neither of which Cassel had this year.

I just don't see how everyone can completely write him off after everything that was going against him this year. He had a bad line and bad WRs in addition to what I mentioned about the offensive scheme.

You don't think that improving the quality of the other 10 guys on the field will improve Cassel's play?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by TigerPig

I respect your opinion, but am totally perplexed how you can say we overvalue an offensive line when you saw FIRST HAND as a Chief fan how amazing things can go when you have a future HOF LT. That team was BETTER because of him and he didn't touch the ball. Do you not think Roaf made the Chiefs SIGNIFICANTLY better by being there?

The Chiefs won NOTHING with Roaf.

The path to the Super Bowl is NOT paved with five All-Pro offensive lineman.

The Saints didn't win one ****ing thing with Roaf, either.

This league is ALL about playmakers.

[Mecca]

What highly successful teams have used a bunch of 1st round picks on offensive linemen?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by 58kcfan89

You don't think that improving the quality of the other 10 guys on the field will improve Cassel's play?

The guy you quoted specifically referred to the offensive line.

Yes, I think the "other 10 players" significantly affect the QB.

But with that said, I think Percy Harvin and Jamaal Charles would have been a potent combo.

Jamaal Charles & Tyson Jackson? Not so much.

The NFL is about playmakers.

This league is no longer defined by the 'trenches", and Chiefs fans need to realize this is no longer the way to win BIG.

[TigerPig]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The Chiefs won NOTHING with Roaf.

The path to the Super Bowl is NOT paved with five All-Pro offensive lineman.

The Saints didn't win one ****ing thing with Roaf, either.

This league is ALL about playmakers.

Barry Sanders didn't win anything either... Nor did Tim Brown, or Dan Marino.

You need BOTH. Just because someone doesn't touch the ball doesn't mean they aren't super important. All you have to do is look at how many teams will not hesitate to take an LT in the first five draft picks. Look at Orlando Pace or Chris Samuels.

You cannot win a Super Bowl unless a team has both a great Playmaker (or two) AND a good Offensive Line. The two factions on here need to realize either both of you are right, or both of you are wrong (depending on how you look at it).

[Mecca]

The teams that are really good, are the teams that have dynamic playmakers but find linemen in later rounds.

And yes a guy like DeMarcus Ware counts as a playmaker not a trench player.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by TigerPig

Barry Sanders didn't win anything either... Nor did Tim Brown, or Dan Marino.

You need BOTH. Just because someone doesn't touch the ball doesn't mean they aren't super important. All you have to do is look at how many teams will not hesitate to take an LT in the first five draft picks. Look at Orlando Pace or Chris Samuels.

But numerous teams win without doing that or really drafting any linemen high where as you'll be hard pressed to find a team that won without playmakers.

A good trench team that had defensive playmakers but none on offense was basically, Marty's Chiefs, what did that get us?

[tonyetony]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The guy you quoted specifically referred to the offensive line.

Yes, I think the "other 10 players" significantly affect the QB.

But with that said, I think Percy Harvin and Jamaal Charles would have been a potent combo.

Jamaal Charles & Tyson Jackson? Not so much.

The NFL is about playmakers.

This league is no longer defined by the 'trenches", and Chiefs fans need to realize this is no longer the way to win BIG.

Our trenches suck. If you think about it for more than second or two you might realize that is the main problem.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by TigerPig

Barry Sanders didn't win anything either... Nor did Tim Brown, or Dan Marino.

You're confusing the 1980's and 1990's with 2010.

Let us all know when you're up to speed.

Thanks.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by tonyetony

Our trenches suck. If you think about it for more than second or two you might realize that is the main problem.

So, you advocate that the Chiefs spend ANOTHER TOP FIVE PICK on the line?

They spent NINE DRAFT CHOICES on the defensive line in NINE YEARS.

What was the result?

HORSESHIT.

So you advocate MORE high picks on the line?

Are you INSANE?

Or is that your internet persona?

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by tonyetony

Our trenches suck. If you think about it for more than second or two you might realize that is the main problem.

But they don't require high picks to fix, that's the point. Seriously since we're going 3-4 and Albert is on this team the Chiefs should never use a 1st round pick on a lineman on either side.

[TigerPig]

Originally Posted by Mecca

But numerous teams win without doing that or really drafting any linemen high where as you'll be hard pressed to find a team that won without playmakers.

A good trench team that had defensive playmakers but none on offense was basically, Marty's Chiefs, what did that get us?

A good team that had offensive playmakers but no one on defense was the Colts before about 2003. And where did that get them? No where until they got some better players on D and Bob Sanders (Safeties have a way of taking over a team and making a good defense great, like Ed Reed or Polamalu).

You need BOTH. If you have a good D, start getting some O. But DO NOT think you can piece together a mediocre offensive line in later rounds and be fine. This is just as silly as trying to draft a QB of the future in the third round (sound familiar?)

[tonyetony]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

So, you advocate that the Chiefs spend ANOTHER TOP FIVE PICK on the line?

They spent NINE DRAFT CHOICES on the defensive line in NINE YEARS.

What was the result?

HORSESHIT.

So you advocate MORE high picks on the line?

Are you INSANE?

Or is that your internet persona?

Dude don't put words in my mouth. I never said I was advocating more draft picks on the line **** nut. I want a game changing safety more than I want anything.