***Official 2016 STL Cardinals Thread***

[BigRedChief]

• 2011 World Series Championship
• 2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
• 2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
• 2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
• 2015 Central Division title. Won 100 games. Lost in the NLDS.
• Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
• 67 post season wins since 2004. 24+ wins more than any other team.

SI article on our off season, Gives us a "A". ??:
http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/02/12/win...ouis-cardinals

2015 III thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=295296
2015 II thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=293412
2015 I thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=289085

[rico]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Eh, Greene didn't hit well in the minors until he was well past age-appropriate for his level. He was 25/26 years old when he was beating up AAA pitching. Even then, he was showing strike zone issues that became pretty apparent when he arrived in the majors.

Greene was the absolute definition of a AAAA player. He was a former #1 pick, but he was a bad #1 pick, just as many were during that period. He was good enough to beat on guys that were far less experienced than he was but when he was put against major leaguers, he was simply overmatched. That's exactly what a AAAA player is.

Interesting.

[rico]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

It's Ray Lankford!

Ray Lankford was my idol as a kid. For a long, long time he was my favorite baseball player of all time. Willie McGee was up there as well. I was at the game where he got his 2000th hit...guys in the crowd were being funny...Now, I realize that they were drunk, but as a 12 year old, I just thought everyone was being funny.

I have a story about Ray. Prior to the 1995 season there was a "meet the Cardinals" event in my area (Southeast Iowa). This type of thing was/is HUGE for Southeast Iowans...the Redbirds don't show up in SEI very often....and I'd say 60-70% of the people in my area are Cardinals fans...they were the only team to receive a ton of radio coverage wayyyyy back in the day... With that said, I am a 5th generation Cards fan. This meet and greet was a HUGE deal to me and others. There were about 500 people there.

So Cardinals we met and greeted were; Lankford, Brian Jordan, Bernard Gilkey, T.J. Matthews, John Mabry, Chris Sabo (was a crowd favorite with his personality at that place) and Ken Hill came to this event where we were able to ask them questions at the end of their speeches. Brian Jordan was very talkative...almost too talkative, for no one else could get a word in...

I was 12 years old and a HUGE Lankford fan. I was also very. very shy when it came to large groups of people...especially when it came to speaking in front of them. So you can maybe imagine how surprised my parents were when I raised my hand to ask one of the players a question. Of course it was Lankford...my favorite baseball player of all time. I couldn't believe I was going to get the opportunity to talk to the guy...seemed like a dream.

So I get the mic (as well as the surprised expressions from my family) and although battling some sort of huge adrenaline dump, I was able to blurt the words, "Ray Lankford, was it easy for you in the minors?"

Ray stammered in is response and seemed kind of thrown off by it... as if he had a lot to say about it, but didn't know where to begin, what to say in between and how to end it. After about 5 seconds, Brian Jordan freaking butted in and I can't remember what he said about his minors experience...I was still focused on Ray...and the guy was thinking very deeply. When ol' "mic stealing" Brian Jordan was speaking...Ray was obviously pondering his own answer. When he finally got the chance to speak, he said, "first off, that is a great question and secondly, there are a lot of things that can influence your performance in the minors vs. the majors. You have all these guys who are just trying to make it to the pros and have the talent and are willing to do anything to get there...Some guys are on top of their games and are at their peak when they are in the minors. You'll never see them better. Some guys have the drive, but just don't have the natural physical ability. All in all, I would not say that it was "EASY" in the minors at all. There are a bunch of elite baseball players in the minors...some you may never hear of again."

That is a good memory for me. I was thrilled.... Lankford. Couldn't believe it was real. And he came off as being very cool.

[rico]

Haha, do you guys remember Gerald Perry's batting stance? He always cracked me up. He would dance around and not even have a proper grip on the batt until RIGHT BEFORE the pitcher would release the ball...'Ol Perry could be clutch sometimes.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Poor Ray.

The ugly end to his time in STL and the fact that his best years were during the worst of the 'end of the brewery era' years really disguised how great a player he was for St. Louis over a 6-8 year period.

His name is usually said with the kind of disgust reserved for Ron Gant and that's just wildly unfair, IMO. The guy was a hell of a player on a lot of bad teams who eventually lost the fight to time.

Injuries and lousy supporting casts covered the fact that a healthy Ray Lankford was a 4-5 WAR player from about 24 yrs old to about 32 years old. That's a damn good career.

Honestly, myself and all of my friends loved Ray Lankford, plus trading him netted the Cardinals Woody Williams, who I always thought looked like the Milfhunter.

[rico]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Honestly, myself and all of my friends loved Ray Lankford, plus trading him netted the Cardinals Woody Williams, who I always thought looked like the Milfhunter.

Uncanny...haha WOW!

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Honestly, myself and all of my friends loved Ray Lankford, plus trading him netted the Cardinals Woody Williams, who I always thought looked like the Milfhunter.

And it may just be because I grew up in KC. I didn't move to 'Cardinal country' until I went to Truman in 2000. By then, Ray was more of an inconvenience.

Out in my neck of the woods, any Cardinals fans I encountered tended to be anti-Lankford because he wasn't Brian Jordan (despite Lankford simply being better than Jordan at their respective peaks).

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And it may just be because I grew up in KC. I didn't move to 'Cardinal country' until I went to Truman in 2000. By then, Ray was more of an inconvenience.

Out in my neck of the woods, any Cardinals fans I encountered tended to be anti-Lankford because he wasn't Brian Jordan (despite Lankford simply being better than Jordan at their respective peaks).

Non-sequitur alert:

Brian Jordan had a 6.9 WAR season and made the Pro Bowl as a safety

Bo Jackson had 7.7 WAR for his career.

I know people like to laud Bo as the greatest two-sport player ever, and he was a tremendous tailback, but Brian Jordan is right there with him in terms of two sport ability.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Non-sequitur alert:

Brian Jordan had a 6.9 WAR season and made the Pro Bowl as a safety

Bo Jackson had 7.7 WAR for his career.

I know people like to laud Bo as the greatest two-sport player ever, and he was a tremendous tailback, but Brian Jordan is right there with him in terms of two sport ability.

Yeah, I'm sure this will bring Royals fans screaming into the thread, but the nasty little secret is that Bo was a remarkably talented athlete and damn flawed baseball player.

Exciting as hell, but the idea that injuries kept him from some HoF career is just a little silly. I understand that 1990 looked to be a step forward for him and in many ways it was, but he was also right in his prime and still something of a Rob Deer-esque hacker who's ridiculous arm covered the fact that he wasn't actually much of a defender at all. Even if you take his 1990 season and pro-rate it for a healthy year, you're looking at a guy with a 4.5 WAR season. Good, no question, but not even a top 20 oWAR season.

His career arc looks like a faster version of Rob Deer. Maybe you're looking at a rich man's Chris Young? Preston Wilson? Maybe the guy that BJ Upton looked like he was going to be 5 years ago? Hell, maybe he's the guy that Justin Upon has been the last 3 years.

There's a range there, but none of them got to legitimate superstar, IMO.

[BigRedChief]

Got some great posts on who sucked/hated the worse for the Cardinals. How about your favorite Cardinal player?

Mine is Bob Gibson. Not just because of his HOF performance on the field but the competitiveness and passion in the way he played the fame. As a kid I was a very competitive kid in sports. His staring down players and hating to lose clicked with me.

He also taught me about judging people on the basis of the color of their skin. I grew up in a segregated and racist part of Springfield. I didn't see a black person until I was 6 years old. My fellow little leaguers use to say I was nuts for picking Gibson as my favorite player. He was black. I remember telling them who gives a shit, I like the way he plays the game. Why does his being black matter?

[O.city]

Favorite?

Probably Ozzie. Was my first word as a child, I always wanted to play short and be like Ozzie.

Or Pujols.

[raybec 4]

Albert was a true Cinderella story so you gotta love that. I really liked guys that were all about grit, so I had a soft spot for Tommy Herr and Andy Van Slyke, but my all time favorite has got to be Willie McGee. I guess it's just an age thing. Wille, Vince, Ozzie, Pedro Guerrero were all on the teams I loved when I first REALLY started following baseball

[seclark]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Got some great posts on who sucked/hated the worse for the Cardinals. How about your favorite Cardinal player?

Mine is Bob Gibson. Not just because of his HOF performance on the field but the competitiveness and passion in the way he played the fame. As a kid I was a very competitive kid in sports. His staring down players and hating to lose clicked with me.

He also taught me about judging people on the basis of the color of their skin. I grew up in a segregated and racist part of Springfield. I didn't see a black person until I was 6 years old. My fellow little leaguers use to say I was nuts for picking Gibson as my favorite player. He was black. I remember telling them who gives a shit, I like the way he plays the game. Why does his being black matter?

lots... too many to list. different reasons.
sec

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by seclark

lots... too many to list. different reasons.
sec

you have to list or pick.

[bdj23]

Pujols is #1, one of the greatest players of my generation and he played for my favorite team. Mcgwire is #2, the homerun chase got me back into baseball after the strike in 94 and made me a Cardinals fan.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Chris Carpenter.