Chiefs Someone review Tyson Jackson and rest of Dline. - Page 5

googlegoogle · 08-21-2010, 09:37 PM

Len and Mitch said the Dline looked good.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-23-2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Expectations

Two year set back for a DE??? JFC, he isn't good, but a two year set back for a DE in a 3-4 is a little extreme. Does that make Jamal Charles a 2 year step forward?

IMO our big step back is Cassel.

Um, you clearly don't get it.

If the Chiefs want to compete, they cannot blow the #3 overall pick.

Hence, another 4-12 or 5-11 season on the horizon.

2009 was quite possibly the worst year in franchise history in terms of acquiring personnel. Free agency was grim and the draft, outside of a kicker, was atrocious.

You can't win a championship by blowing off an entire year, especially one in which you pick Top 3 in every round.

IF Tyson Jackson was Richard Seymour part two, this defense would look much differently.

**BossChief** · 08-23-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Expectations

Two year set back for a DE??? JFC, he isn't good, but a two year set back for a DE in a 3-4 is a little extreme. Does that make Jamal Charles a 2 year step forward?

IMO our big step back is Cassel.

vacuum

Great Expectations · 08-23-2010, 01:08 PM

You can blow the #3 pick and still compete if you hit on a couple of other ones and do a decent job in free agency. It is just much easier to hit on a top 5 pick than a 4th round one.

For instance if Cassel played up to his contract the Chiefs would be more than competing. The top teams in the league have all missed on some of their first rounders.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-23-2010, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Expectations

You can blow the #3 pick and still compete if you hit on a couple of other ones and do a decent job in free agency. It is just much easier to hit on a top 5 pick than a 4th round one.

This is bullshit.

First off, you're speaking in hypotheticals. The 2009 Chiefs draft was in reality, a pile of steaming dogshit. They grabbed ONE player that made an impact, the last player in the draft. A player that wasn't even necessary because Connor Barth showed as much promise as Succop and Succop had never kicked in the NFL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Expectations

For instance if Cassel played up to his contract the Chiefs would be more than competing.

Big ****ing IF. If the Chiefs had selected Rey Mauluga, the defense would be much further along. We can play the "IF" game all day. It won't change the past.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Expectations

The top teams in the league have all missed on some of their first rounders.

Really? Name the misses by current "top teams" like Pittsburgh, the NY Giants, the Patriots, San Diego, Green Bay, etc.

None of those teams were picking in the Top Five in consecutive years, so your statement is even less valid.

**DeezNutz** · 08-23-2010, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

This is bullshit.

First off, you're speaking in hypotheticals. The 2009 Chiefs draft was in reality, a pile of steaming dogshit. They grabbed ONE player that made an impact, the last player in the draft. A player that wasn't even necessary because Connor Barth showed as much promise as Succop and Succop had never kicked in the NFL.

I don't think it's bullshit, necessarily.

If Cassel was a kick ass, franchise QB, this would go a long way toward covering the Tyson Jackson wart. Yeah, it would still be tragic to **** up a very important pick, but we could overcome it.

Naturally, you're right because this is all make believe, and this is unfortunate.

Great Expectations · 08-23-2010, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

I don't think it's bullshit, necessarily.

If Cassel was a kick ass, franchise QB, this would go a long way toward covering the Tyson Jackson wart. Yeah, it would still be tragic to **** up a very important pick, but we could overcome it.

This is the point I was trying to make, and I agree with Dane that the 2009 draft was horrible.

Great Expectations · 08-23-2010, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

This is bullshit.

First off, you're speaking in hypotheticals.

Really? Name the misses by current "top teams" like Pittsburgh, the NY Giants, the Patriots, San Diego, Green Bay, etc.

None of those teams were picking in the Top Five in consecutive years, so your statement is even less valid.

Of course I'm speaking in hypotheticals, that is what everyone does when they talk about changing the past picks/signings.

Larry English isn't starting for the Chargers (infact Cason is the only starter they have from their #1 picks from '06-'09)

Evander Hood isn't tearing it up for the Steelers (1st rounder in '09 isn't starting how will they survive?) and how about Limas Sweed? Justin Harrel - Packers

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-23-2010, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Expectations

Larry English isn't starting for the Chargers (infact Cason is the only starter they have from their #1 picks from '06-'09)

Evander Hood isn't tearing it up for the Steelers (1st rounder in '09 isn't starting how will they survive?) and how about Limas Sweed? Justin Harrel - Packers

Once again, more silly comparisons.

Neither the Chargers, Packers or Steelers are coming off of 4-12 and 2-14 seasons. Their respective rosters are loaded with talent, not talent depleted.

The Chiefs absolutely need massive production from their 2009 draft, especially from the #3 overall pick. To date, they've gotten extremely minimal production and no signs of that changing.

As far as Ziggy Hood's concerned, I think he'll be a much better 5-tech than TyJack. If you believe Peter King's camp reports, he's been tearing it up and they'll have a difficult time keeping him off the field this upcoming season.

Titty Meat · 08-23-2010, 02:32 PM

You can blow the third overall pick and be successful? Who is this dumbass?

**BossChief** · 08-23-2010, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veist

Its kind of fuzzy as its been a while but I believe that the word was the Packers were targeting him as they felt Raji would not be on the board for them. So he might have been a top10 pick, which speaks mostly to how bad the draft class was for 3-4 ends last year. Not that any of that makes it a good pick.

there were reports of all the teams picking after us taking Tyson if he were available AFTER the draft. Nobody thought he was a logical pick at #3 (or anywhere in the top ten) overall BEFORE the draft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wasi

Sims was not the consensus top player. Henderson and Haynesworth were considered very close. The reason the Chiefs chose Sims was because of John Butler, HC at NC. He was aslo close friends with Vermeil and Carl and personally recommended Sims.

Sims wasn't a surprise when we took him is what Im saying...Tyson was. Couple that with the fact that Tyson was #3 overall and Sims was #6 and you have quite a bit more expectations for the #3 pick...especially when a franchise quarterback, true #1 receiver, a great nose prospect and franchise pass rusher were readily available at the pick.

Sims had three sacks, a pick, a forced fumble and a recovered fumble to go along with 35 tackles in his second year...right now, if Tyson Jackson hit that stat line for next year even I would be surprised.

Great Expectations · 08-23-2010, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Once again, more silly comparisons.

Neither the Chargers, Packers or Steelers are coming off of 4-12 and 2-14 seasons. Their respective rosters are loaded with talent, not talent depleted.

You are right.

You asked a question and cited specific teams. I took those teams and listed some 1st round misses over the last 1-4 years. I was silly to pick those teams (that you requested) to show 1st round draft misses.

Swanman · 08-23-2010, 03:01 PM

In theory, you can miss on the #3 pick and still survive, although it never helps to sink gobs of money into a guy that doesn't produce. However, what makes it worse for the Chiefs is that they pissed away LOTS of picks in the first three rounds, and lots of them were on the D-Line (TJack, Sims, Tank, Turk, Siavii, arguably Dorsey). When you miss on half or more of your first round picks, then that #3 pick takes on a shitload more importance and urgency. Thank God and all that is holy that the Berry pick is so far, so good.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-23-2010, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Expectations

You are right.

You asked a question and cited specific teams. I took those teams and listed some 1st round misses over the last 1-4 years. I was silly to pick those teams (that you requested) to show 1st round draft misses.

So, you're proclaiming that Larry English and Ziggy Hood are misses?

Wut.

keg in kc · 08-23-2010, 03:39 PM

As I recall, the Chargers elevation came on the heels of several top 5 picks. LT in '01, Jammer (who I'd call a bust) in '02 and Rivers (for Manning at #1) in '04.

The Packers took AJ Hawk at 5 in '06 (after a 4-12 season). They've managed to turn out okay despite that poor decision. Point being, it would obviously help if Jackson turned into something, but the Chiefs can survive it, and survive the way the '09 draft is turning out, but they can't have any more speed bump offseasons like that. It doesn't have to be the end of the world, and '10 is looking like a good start so far.

The_Doctor10 · 08-23-2010, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Its hard to believe that all the D-Linemen this team has drafted over the past 10 years and they all suck.

That's not true; Jared Allen is a beast.

08-21-2010, 09:37 PM
googlegoogle Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10004900	Someone review Tyson Jackson and rest of Dline. Len and Mitch said the Dline looked good.
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08-23-2010, 01:08 PM	#63
Great Expectations MVP Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Joplin, MO Casino cash: $13622338	You can blow the #3 pick and still compete if you hit on a couple of other ones and do a decent job in free agency. It is just much easier to hit on a top 5 pick than a 4th round one. For instance if Cassel played up to his contract the Chiefs would be more than competing. The top teams in the league have all missed on some of their first rounders.
Posts: 7,225

08-23-2010, 02:32 PM	#69
Titty Meat Inmem 2.0 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: My house Casino cash: $2217558	You can blow the third overall pick and be successful? Who is this dumbass?
Posts: 75,207

08-23-2010, 03:01 PM	#72
Swanman It's a league game, Dude Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Itasca, IL Casino cash: $9967354	In theory, you can miss on the #3 pick and still survive, although it never helps to sink gobs of money into a guy that doesn't produce. However, what makes it worse for the Chiefs is that they pissed away LOTS of picks in the first three rounds, and lots of them were on the D-Line (TJack, Sims, Tank, Turk, Siavii, arguably Dorsey). When you miss on half or more of your first round picks, then that #3 pick takes on a shitload more importance and urgency. Thank God and all that is holy that the Berry pick is so far, so good.
Posts: 4,719

08-23-2010, 03:39 PM	#74
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	As I recall, the Chargers elevation came on the heels of several top 5 picks. LT in '01, Jammer (who I'd call a bust) in '02 and Rivers (for Manning at #1) in '04. The Packers took AJ Hawk at 5 in '06 (after a 4-12 season). They've managed to turn out okay despite that poor decision. Point being, it would obviously help if Jackson turned into something, but the Chiefs can survive it, and survive the way the '09 draft is turning out, but they can't have any more speed bump offseasons like that. It doesn't have to be the end of the world, and '10 is looking like a good start so far.
Posts: 58,682