Chiefs Who replaces Gunther

TRR · 12-19-2008, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

He has a TOTAL of 15 wins in THREE SEASONS. He has the 32nd ranked defense. His clock management is pathetic. A competent GM will never hitch their wagon to that type of coaching. What can you dispute out of that?

He made the playoffs his first season. By all accounts, Herm wanted to dismantle the team the following year, but Carl Peterson over-ruled him, and wanted to scotch tape the team together for one more run. (which failed). This year was a rebuilding year. Nobody including Clark Hunt thought KC was going to be a contender.

Now I'm not saying that Herm Edwards is the second coming, but let's give the guy a shot to win with his players, his way. Either that, or let's be like the Washington Redskins, and hire a new coach every 2-3 years, and never get anywhere.

Your looking for the quick fix, and there isn't one.

BigChiefFan · 12-19-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRR

He made the playoffs his first season. By all accounts, Herm wanted to dismantle the team the following year, but Carl Peterson over-ruled him, and wanted to scotch tape the team together for one more run. (which failed). This year was a rebuilding year. Nobody including Clark Hunt thought KC was going to be a contender.

Now I'm not saying that Herm Edwards is the second coming, but let's give the guy a shot to win with his players, his way. Either that, or let's be like the Washington Redskins, and hire a new coach every 2-3 years, and never get anywhere.

Your looking for the quick fix, and there isn't one.

He's been GIVEN three years. His defense has REGRESSED. We gave up a draft pick, so he could FIX the defense and he hasn't. He firmly hitched his wagon to Mr. Bust, himself, Croyle. His FIX for the O-line has consisted of Damion McIntosh and Kyle Turley as the SOLUTIONS. His epic scouting consists of players like Jeff Webb throughout our entire roster. How exactly is the team getting BETTER under his watch? More youth doesn't equate to more progress. Herm is a bust in Kansas City. Failure after failure, after failure with that man.

crazycoffey · 12-19-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

He's been GIVEN three years. His defense has REGRESSED. We gave up a draft pick, so he could FIX the defense and he hasn't. He firmly hitched his wagon to Mr. Bust, himself, Croyle. His FIX for the O-line has consisted of Damion McIntosh and Kyle Turley as the SOLUTIONS. His epic scouting consists of players like Jeff Webb throughout our entire roster. How exactly is the team getting BETTER under his watch? More youth doesn't equate to more progress. Herm is a bust in Kansas City. Failure after failure, after failure with that man.

are reading the posts you quote, or just skimming over them and then spitting out more garble about Herm's three years? He came in and inherieted a team, it backed into the playoffs. Last year he wanted to do what he did this year, get rid of alot of the old timers and get some fresh young players to build upon. Last year was for carl, IMO - one more chance to complete his "five year" plan. turley wasn't what Herm wanted, he's what Carl wanted.
This year they dismantled the team and started building youth. Herm got what he wanted, he sold the change of philosophy to Clark and NOW CARL IS GONE. The team, particularly the defense endured alot of injuries. Hard to stay on schedule when you have to keep changing planes/trains.

Just looking for the silver lining.....

BigChiefFan · 12-19-2008, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey

are reading the posts you quote, or just skimming over them and then spitting out more garble about Herm's three years? He came in and inherieted a team, it backed into the playoffs. Last year he wanted to do what he did this year, get rid of alot of the old timers and get some fresh young players to build upon. Last year was for carl, IMO - one more chance to complete his team. turley wasn't what Herm wanted, he's what Carl wanted.
This year they dismantled the team and started building youth. Herm got what he wanted, he sold the change of philosophy to Clark and NOW CARL IS GONE.

Just looking for the silver lining.....

Actually Herm was a BIG PROPONENT of getting Turley AND McIntosh, so it looks like you might want to digress. Sorry, no amount of spin can vanish Herm's record, no matter how far he tries to distance himself from it or anybody else, MAKING EXCUSES. Where's Mike Smith's built-in excuse? How about Harbaugh's? This is the NFL, that means, if you don't show some progress in THREE YEARS TIME, then you aren't going to last long. Herm's had AMPLE AMOUNT of TIME and we NEVER ONCE, heard about a REBUILD, until his team went down the shitter. Rebuild is code for we suck and expect us to continue to suck-it's an EXCUSE and Herm and everyone else backing him can't admit IT IS NOT WORKING!!!!Unless of course you think losing 12 games(or MORE) in a season is getting better-news flash it isn't.

crazycoffey · 12-19-2008, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

Actually Herm was a BIG PROPONENT of getting Turley AND McIntosh, so it looks like you might want to digress. Sorry, no amount of spin can vanish Herm's record, no matter how far he tries to distance himself from it or anybody else, MAKING EXCUSES. Where's Mike Smith's built-in excuse? How about Harbaugh's? This is the NFL, that means, if you don't show some progress in THREE YEARS TIME, then you aren't going to last long. Herm's had AMPLE AMOUNT of TIME and we NEVER ONCE, heard about a REBUILD, until his team went down the shitter. Rebuild is code for we suck and expect us to continue to suck-it's an EXCUSE and Herm and everyone else backing him can't admit IT IS NOT WORKING!!!!Unless of course you think losing 12 games(or MORE) in a season is getting better-news flash it isn't.

some loosely quoted discussions, if I may suggest.....

summer 2007 -
Herm: okay, we backed into the playoffs, but that was blind luck we need to shit can alot of old players and start building youth.

Carl: not on my watch - get a few young players and and several vets, make another run.

Herm: if you say so, boss. (turns to Clark) this ain't going to work, but I'll be a team player. I want to start over if it doesn't work. And you may need to get rid of Carl to do it, or at least get him the F up off me! (turns to press) we are going to make another run. We seemed real close last year. (turns to Ray Farmer) - get me a couple pros - turley, damon mac, see if Donnie wants to come back, I don't know see what else we can plug a few holes with. (turns back to Carl) can we at least start Brodie this year, we got to see what we got with him, it's the smart thing to do.

Carl: nah, I want damon, he give us the best short term answer, I want to win now.

Herm: Dammit Carl

Summer 2008

Herm: told you so, Carl - told you so Clark.

Carl: B'ah- if only LJ wouldn't have gotten injuried, why did I let you talk me into trading Trent Green....

Clark: 'um, yeah - I think you should back the F off of Herm, I want you to support his philosophy this year.

Carl: Your father just turned over in his grave. Do you know who you are talking to? I wiped your butt as a baby, bounced you on my knee. You are dead to me.....

Herm: point for Me, he shoots, he scores. Lets get some stuff done! (turns to team) you, you, you and you for sure - get the F out. You, I don't want to get rid of you, but you are going to get me some young draftees.

smittysbar · 12-20-2008, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey

are reading the posts you quote, or just skimming over them and then spitting out more garble about Herm's three years? He came in and inherieted a team, it backed into the playoffs. Last year he wanted to do what he did this year, get rid of alot of the old timers and get some fresh young players to build upon. Last year was for carl, IMO - one more chance to complete his "five year" plan. turley wasn't what Herm wanted, he's what Carl wanted.
This year they dismantled the team and started building youth. Herm got what he wanted, he sold the change of philosophy to Clark and NOW CARL IS GONE. The team, particularly the defense endured alot of injuries. Hard to stay on schedule when you have to keep changing planes/trains.

Just looking for the silver lining.....

Sorry CC, but if you thought this was the first year of the rebuild...........not the case

TRR · 12-19-2008, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

He's been GIVEN three years. His defense has REGRESSED. We gave up a draft pick, so he could FIX the defense and he hasn't. He firmly hitched his wagon to Mr. Bust, himself, Croyle. His FIX for the O-line has consisted of Damion McIntosh and Kyle Turley as the SOLUTIONS. His epic scouting consists of players like Jeff Webb throughout our entire roster. How exactly is the team getting BETTER under his watch? More youth doesn't equate to more progress. Herm is a bust in Kansas City. Failure after failure, after failure with that man.

If we started talking about coaches and QB's busting, there wouldn't be a head coach left in the league.

Also, you brought up Kyle Turley who is no longer on the roster, Jeff Webb who hardly plays, and Damion McIntosh who was moved to RT because Herm had the instincts to know Albert would be a stud at LT (while playing guard his whole career).

AND OF COURSE WE HAVE REGRESSED ON DEFENSE....KC is starting THREE rookie CB's, and their D line is made up of rookies, and 2-3rd year players. It's like coaching a college defense. All while trading away our best defensive player for more picks to help the team in the long run.

Again your looking for the quick fix, and there isn't one.

Sully · 12-19-2008, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRR

He made the playoffs his first season. By all accounts, Herm wanted to dismantle the team the following year, but Carl Peterson over-ruled him, and wanted to scotch tape the team together for one more run. (which failed). This year was a rebuilding year. Nobody including Clark Hunt thought KC was going to be a contender.

Now I'm not saying that Herm Edwards is the second coming, but let's give the guy a shot to win with his players, his way. Either that, or let's be like the Washington Redskins, and hire a new coach every 2-3 years, and never get anywhere.

Your looking for the quick fix, and there isn't one.

If I see a guy in a room with some lincoln logs, and with those lincoln logs (and only those lincoln logs) he manages to set the room on fire, find a way to break the bigger logs, and ends up with just a pile of splintered crap...I'm surely not going to give him a job building my home, simply because he "didn't have the material to work with."

You don't need to see a guy coach pro bowlers to see he's a buffoon.

**Buehler445** · 12-19-2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully

If I see a guy in a room with some lincoln logs, and with those lincoln logs (and only those lincoln logs) he manages to set the room on fire, find a way to break the bigger logs, and ends up with just a pile of splintered crap...I'm surely not going to give him a job building my home, simply because he "didn't have the material to work with."

You don't need to see a guy coach pro bowlers to see he's a buffoon.

That is actually an amazing analogy for Sqirmin. Rep.

**HemiEd** · 12-19-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRR

He made the playoffs his first season. By all accounts, Herm wanted to dismantle the team the following year, but Carl Peterson over-ruled him, and wanted to scotch tape the team together for one more run. (which failed). This year was a rebuilding year. Nobody including Clark Hunt thought KC was going to be a contender.

Now I'm not saying that Herm Edwards is the second coming, but let's give the guy a shot to win with his players, his way. Either that, or let's be like the Washington Redskins, and hire a new coach every 2-3 years, and never get anywhere.

Your looking for the quick fix, and there isn't one.

As before, I disagree with you on most of these points, but that is what makes this place tick.

You can't have it both ways with Herm.

If you are going to give him credit for that playoff debacle of 2006, you have to hold him accountable as well. To say the poor guy was saddled with a mess, that took him into the playoffs, is giving it to him both ways.

He got into the playoffs with DVs team, and clearly showed he didn't want to be there. In fact, he was so removed from it, his wife had to tell him he made it. IMO Herm put out zero effort trying to beat his buddy, Dungy, in the playoffs with DVs team. The team could detect that, and put out about the same.

From the day Herm ****ing Edwards has first put on a KC hat, it has been about his ****ing ego. No ****ing way was he going anywhere with someone elses team.

Blow the shit up! I want my OWN TEAM dammit! My boss won't let me have my own team, I will go over his head. The only way to do this is the Herm Edwards way!

He took the job, and probably cashed all the million dollar checks, so I have no sympathy for the weasel. He owes us sympathy, he has disgraced this team and franchise.

BigChiefFan · 12-19-2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

As before, I disagree with you on most of these points, but that is what makes this place tick.

You can't have it both ways with Herm.

If you are going to give him credit for that playoff debacle of 2006, you have to hold him accountable as well. To say the poor guy was saddled with a mess, that took him into the playoffs, is giving it to him both ways.

He got into the playoffs with DVs team, and clearly showed he didn't want to be there. In fact, he was so removed from it, his wife had to tell him he made it. IMO Herm put out zero effort trying to beat his buddy, Dungy, in the playoffs with DVs team. The team could detect that, and put out about the same.

From the day Herm ****ing Edwards has first put on a KC hat, it has been about his ****ing ego. No ****ing way was he going anywhere with someone elses team.

Blow the shit up! I want my OWN TEAM dammit! My boss won't let me have my own team, I will go over his head. The only way to do this is the Herm Edwards way!

He took the job, and probably cashed all the million dollar checks, so I have no sympathy for the weasel. He owes us sympathy, he has disgraced this team and franchise.

Agreed. Good take.

FringeNC · 12-19-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRR

He made the playoffs his first season. By all accounts, Herm wanted to dismantle the team the following year, but Carl Peterson over-ruled him, and wanted to scotch tape the team together for one more run. (which failed). This year was a rebuilding year. Nobody including Clark Hunt thought KC was going to be a contender.

Now I'm not saying that Herm Edwards is the second coming, but let's give the guy a shot to win with his players, his way. Either that, or let's be like the Washington Redskins, and hire a new coach every 2-3 years, and never get anywhere.

Your looking for the quick fix, and there isn't one.

Define dismantling the team. I see that and similar terms used all the time on here, but I am confused as to what it means.

TRR · 12-19-2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

Define dismantling the team. I see that and similar terms used all the time on here, but I am confused as to what it means.

Dismantle as in out with the old, and in with the new. Herm wanted to go young. He didn't want to hold onto aging vets, and start a guy like Damon Huard. He didn't want to keep and play a guy like Sammy Knight, Ty Law, Pat Surtain. He wanted a fresh team, with fresh players. He has that now. Let's give him a chance to see what he can do with it.

I'm all for hanging Herm like the rest of you if he can't get the job done with his players (and he supposedly has them now) but I don't believe he has had a fair chance without Carl dictating the gameplan to him.

FringeNC · 12-19-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRR

Dismantle as in out with the old, and in with the new. Herm wanted to go young.

Isn't that what every team does every year via the draft? I just don't buy the argument that Herm is in the first year of his rebuilding process. The rebuilding process is an annual occurrence for every team (unless they have traded away their draft picks). Herm's been at it 3 years. He wasn't saddled with having no draft picks because they had been traded away.

**HemiEd** · 12-19-2008, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRR

Dismantle as in out with the old, and in with the new. Herm wanted to go young. He didn't want to hold onto aging vets, and start a guy like Damon Huard. He didn't want to keep and play a guy like Sammy Knight, Ty Law, Pat Surtain. He wanted a fresh team, with fresh players. He has that now. Let's give him a chance to see what he can do with it.

I'm all for hanging Herm like the rest of you if he can't get the job done with his players (and he supposedly has them now) but I don't believe he has had a fair chance without Carl dictating the gameplan to him.

Herm brought in Ty Law.