Is officiating getting worse? - Page 2

Chiefnj · 09:14 AM

I don't know if anyone watched the Monday night game, but Minnesota was down a bunch of points but finally started moving the ball. A pass was thrown, completed and then fumbled out of bounds (initial ruling). Then Belichek starts bitching, the refs gather in a huddle and remarkably change their mind - incomplete pass. The review shows it clearly was a catch - even Joe Theisman can see it was a catch. And we have to endure Joey T saying it was a catch for the next 2 minutes. The refs come back and say - no catch. ??? That took all the wind out of Minnesota's sails and the game was clearly over at that point. There were also several ticky-tack PI calls during the game that went against the Vikings.

I find myself slowly losing interest in watching NFL games (not the Chiefs, just other games). To me there is nothing worse than watching a poorly officiated game - especially one that for all purposes changes the outcome of the game (ala the Jets this weekend).

I don't get the same level of frustration from watching college games and IMHO I think college games are better officiated.

Is there any way to improve the calls? I thought after last years Super Bowl that officiating would be under scrutiny, but the league continues to worry about silly things like fining Chad Johnson and Rooney.

jspchief · 10-31-2006, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplex3

You could also spend some of your giant wads of cash on full time refs who aren't 900 years old.

Or is that just dumb?

Honestly, how do you make a "fulltime" ref for a job where you're only needed 6 months of the year?

Personally I think the biggest problem is still ego. These guys hate to admit they are wrong. I'd like to see the NFL go to a booth review like what's used in college. That way you're not asking the same guy that made the call, to admit he was wrong and overturn it.

I also noticed ESPN had a camera crew in the review booth for that Sunday night college game. I think that's a great idea. Let us see and hear exactly what's going into the review process.

jspchief · 10-31-2006, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noa949

I also hated how on the same series toward the end of the game, Corey Dillon celebrated a run by chucking the ball across the field and then Ben Watson celebrated a catch by spiking the ball in front of the defenders. If that was the Chiefs, we would have been penalized and possibly removed from the league, but when the Patriots do it, its a cute display of emotion.

I agree. Both of those should have drawn a flag, and I've seen much milder celebrations get flagged.

Simplex3 · 10-31-2006, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

Honestly, how do you make a "fulltime" ref for a job where you're only needed 6 months of the year?

Personally I think the biggest problem is still ego. These guys hate to admit they are wrong. I'd like to see the NFL go to a booth review like what's used in college. That way you're not asking the same guy that made the call, to admit he was wrong and overturn it.

I also noticed ESPN had a camera crew in the review booth for that Sunday night college game. I think that's a great idea. Let us see and hear exactly what's going into the review process.

Nothing like shining a light to clear out the roaches.

**morphius** · 10-31-2006, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

Honestly, how do you make a "fulltime" ref for a job where you're only needed 6 months of the year?

Personally I think the biggest problem is still ego. These guys hate to admit they are wrong. I'd like to see the NFL go to a booth review like what's used in college. That way you're not asking the same guy that made the call, to admit he was wrong and overturn it.

I also noticed ESPN had a camera crew in the review booth for that Sunday night college game. I think that's a great idea. Let us see and hear exactly what's going into the review process.

I have always liked the idea of the booth review, it works well in Hockey and they do it in college, why the pro's have to have some silly contraption on the sidelines is beyond me. I'd also mix up the crews that are in the booth so that they are not teamed up with the regular crew of refs.

I think the stupid "football move" and the "you must control the ball after hitting the ground" rules have helped add to the confusion, 2 feet and possession take out a lot of the guess work.

PastorMikH · 10-31-2006, 10:39 AM

I think the quality of officiating is definately sinking. Used to be you thought the refs were just against your team because of a bad call or two. Now days, it's pretty clear that they are just stinking up the field with poor officiating.

It's not just in the NFL either. You see it in college ball all the time.

I think the refs should be seeing some fines when they blow a call - especially game changing calls they blow it AFTER replay. Also, a grading system by the NFL wouldn't be a bad idea. If you as an official aren't able to keep above a certain level of points of efficiency, you get suspended. If you can't maintain a certain level of performance, you don't get to come back. You can't tell me there aren't official wannabees that would love a shot at reffing a big game that could come in once there is a shortage due to suspensions and firings.

In the NFL we have players that are the very top of tha game, why shouldn't the same be expected of the officials?

keg in kc · 10-31-2006, 10:47 AM

There's not really much in the way of accountability.

And that's actually an argument for making it a fulltime job. By fulltime job, I mean more in terms of salary than hours. I know they only work one day a weekend six months a year, but they should have film study during the week just like players, and there should be a heavy peer review process. As well as a commensurate pay increase.

It's not like the league can't afford to do it.

Of course, at the same time, you have to realize one thing, in college and pro games alike, the more cameras there are on the field, the more angles we see, the more able we are to see and prove that calls are wrong. There isn't as much doubt left in the eyes of the fan now. I don't know if there'd be so much questioning of the ability of the zebras if we didn't have literal proof, almost real-time, that they made mistakes. They're probably not actually any worse now than they've ever been. The mistakes are just more visible.

PastorMikH · 10-31-2006, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Of course, at the same time, you have to realize one thing, in college and pro games alike, the more cameras there are on the field, the more angles we see, the more able we are to see and prove that calls are wrong. There isn't as much doubt left in the eyes of the fan now. I don't know if there'd be so much questioning of the ability of the zebras if we didn't have literal proof, almost real-time, that they made mistakes. They're probably not actually any worse now than they've ever been. The mistakes are just more visible.

In the case of Trent Green, I couldn't believe there wasn't a flag the moment the play happened before any replays were shown.

On the Allen INT/fumble, your statement up there is correct though. I thought we were wronged until about the 5th replay.

keg in kc · 10-31-2006, 10:56 AM

I agree with you on the Green hit. That's one of the more mystifying non-calls I've ever seen. Not to rehash old territory, but I've seen flags thrown in NFL games for hits that looked like shoulder taps compared to that one. It was unbelievable.

InChiefsHeaven · 10-31-2006, 11:07 AM

I saw the Patsies commit 2 pretty blatent PI's that were not called, one on the interception in the endzone. It looked like Johnson just tossed the ball to the guy, but on the replay, it shows Bruschi pushing the intended reciever in the back preventing him from getting up to the ball. Later, there was a PI non-call on a long pass that would have gone for a TD. Even the Patriot loving booth announcers said, yup, he did have his arm on him and that should have been pass interference. Then you add the "non-catch" review play that killed them on 3rd down. All three were crucial drive killers. Don't get me wrong, Minnesota made their fair share of blunders and did pretty much get outplayed, but there were some calls that just should have been made that were'nt.

...I'm also so sick of hearing how Brady is the second coming of Christ. Between him and Manning, I can't stand watching them on TV because of the huge orgasm that is directed to them.

Chiefnj · 10-31-2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InChiefsHell

I saw the Patsies commit 2 pretty blatent PI's that were not called, one on the interception in the endzone. It looked like Johnson just tossed the ball to the guy, but on the replay, it shows Bruschi pushing the intended reciever in the back preventing him from getting up to the ball. Later, there was a PI non-call on a long pass that would have gone for a TD. Even the Patriot loving booth announcers said, yup, he did have his arm on him and that should have been pass interference. Then you add the "non-catch" review play that killed them on 3rd down. All three were crucial drive killers. Don't get me wrong, Minnesota made their fair share of blunders and did pretty much get outplayed, but there were some calls that just should have been made that were'nt.

...I'm also so sick of hearing how Brady is the second coming of Christ. Between him and Manning, I can't stand watching them on TV because of the huge orgasm that is directed to them.

I had forgotten about the first INT. Watching it you wonder why in the world he threw it directly to Harrison?. The replay showed the receiver being prevented from getting to the area of the ball. I think he was held and then shoved in the back in the wrong direction.

PastorMikH · 10-31-2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InChiefsHell

I saw the Patsies commit 2 pretty blatent PI's that were not called,

That's what kinda gets me the most. It sure seems like there are CLEAR favorites in the NFL. Now, it never bothered me as long as the Raiders were the only team on that list, but now it's gotten to the point that certain teams get favored by the officiating and the NFL - "The Carson Palmer Rule", Pittsburgh over Seattle in the SB and so on.

It sure seems like if a certain player - or a player from a certain team - is involved in a PI, the officials look the other way. Certain players or certain teams get better spots. Certain QBs get a lot more protection from the officials. And so on.

Kyle401 · 10-31-2006, 11:36 AM

Keg has a good point. The increased coverage of pro football allows fans to see practically every mistake that the officials make. In 2003, the NFL forced some officials to retire based on performance (blown calls) so they may do so again. The officiating last night was particularly bad.

Somehow Larry Nemmers always seems to get a playoff game so he must grade out pretty well in the NFL's opinion. He did the PIT/CIN wildcard game last year.

**BigRedChief** · 10-31-2006, 11:55 AM

Ed Hockney (the one with the huge biceps) is the only one that seems to be consistent. At least that I can remember.

trndobrd · 10-31-2006, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PastorMikH

That's what kinda gets me the most. It sure seems like there are CLEAR favorites in the NFL. Now, it never bothered me as long as the Raiders were the only team on that list, but now it's gotten to the point that certain teams get favored by the officiating and the NFL - "The Carson Palmer Rule", Pittsburgh over Seattle in the SB and so on.

It sure seems like if a certain player - or a player from a certain team - is involved in a PI, the officials look the other way. Certain players or certain teams get better spots. Certain QBs get a lot more protection from the officials. And so on.

The NFL does seem to be slipping into into NBA style officiating where the stars always seem to benefit from the non-call and the average Joe player does not.

Officiating could easily be a full time gig. Between travel, film sessions and game day, they should be working 5 days a week through the season. Rotate crews to NFL Europe during the off season and add some training through the summer, rotate them around training camp games, and you have a pretty full year for them.

Kyle401 · 10-31-2006, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Ed Hockney (the one with the huge biceps) is the only one that seems to be consistent. At least that I can remember.

Hochuli does one thing better than every other referee in the NFL. He explains his calls in detail, particularly on reviews. This alone lends creedence to his reasoning even if you disagree with the final outcome. On top of that, he is a good referee. Every referee should be required to explain their calls to the crowd like Hochuli does.

10-31-2006, 09:01 AM
Chiefnj MVP Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Willis, Harris and Davis. Casino cash: $10004900	Is officiating getting worse? I don't know if anyone watched the Monday night game, but Minnesota was down a bunch of points but finally started moving the ball. A pass was thrown, completed and then fumbled out of bounds (initial ruling). Then Belichek starts bitching, the refs gather in a huddle and remarkably change their mind - incomplete pass. The review shows it clearly was a catch - even Joe Theisman can see it was a catch. And we have to endure Joey T saying it was a catch for the next 2 minutes. The refs come back and say - no catch. ??? That took all the wind out of Minnesota's sails and the game was clearly over at that point. There were also several ticky-tack PI calls during the game that went against the Vikings. I find myself slowly losing interest in watching NFL games (not the Chiefs, just other games). To me there is nothing worse than watching a poorly officiated game - especially one that for all purposes changes the outcome of the game (ala the Jets this weekend). I don't get the same level of frustration from watching college games and IMHO I think college games are better officiated. Is there any way to improve the calls? I thought after last years Super Bowl that officiating would be under scrutiny, but the league continues to worry about silly things like fining Chad Johnson and Rooney. Last edited by Chiefnj; 10-31-2006 at 09:14 AM..
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10-31-2006, 10:39 AM	#20
PastorMikH Will KC ever be better? Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Land of Red Dirt & Necks Casino cash: $9955087	I think the quality of officiating is definately sinking. Used to be you thought the refs were just against your team because of a bad call or two. Now days, it's pretty clear that they are just stinking up the field with poor officiating. It's not just in the NFL either. You see it in college ball all the time. I think the refs should be seeing some fines when they blow a call - especially game changing calls they blow it AFTER replay. Also, a grading system by the NFL wouldn't be a bad idea. If you as an official aren't able to keep above a certain level of points of efficiency, you get suspended. If you can't maintain a certain level of performance, you don't get to come back. You can't tell me there aren't official wannabees that would love a shot at reffing a big game that could come in once there is a shortage due to suspensions and firings. In the NFL we have players that are the very top of tha game, why shouldn't the same be expected of the officials? __________________
Posts: 20,453

10-31-2006, 10:47 AM	#21
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	There's not really much in the way of accountability. And that's actually an argument for making it a fulltime job. By fulltime job, I mean more in terms of salary than hours. I know they only work one day a weekend six months a year, but they should have film study during the week just like players, and there should be a heavy peer review process. As well as a commensurate pay increase. It's not like the league can't afford to do it. Of course, at the same time, you have to realize one thing, in college and pro games alike, the more cameras there are on the field, the more angles we see, the more able we are to see and prove that calls are wrong. There isn't as much doubt left in the eyes of the fan now. I don't know if there'd be so much questioning of the ability of the zebras if we didn't have literal proof, almost real-time, that they made mistakes. They're probably not actually any worse now than they've ever been. The mistakes are just more visible.
Posts: 58,682

10-31-2006, 10:56 AM	#23
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	I agree with you on the Green hit. That's one of the more mystifying non-calls I've ever seen. Not to rehash old territory, but I've seen flags thrown in NFL games for hits that looked like shoulder taps compared to that one. It was unbelievable.
Posts: 58,682

10-31-2006, 11:07 AM	#24
InChiefsHeaven Rockin' yer FACE OFF! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Omaha, Nebraska Casino cash: $3894937	I saw the Patsies commit 2 pretty blatent PI's that were not called, one on the interception in the endzone. It looked like Johnson just tossed the ball to the guy, but on the replay, it shows Bruschi pushing the intended reciever in the back preventing him from getting up to the ball. Later, there was a PI non-call on a long pass that would have gone for a TD. Even the Patriot loving booth announcers said, yup, he did have his arm on him and that should have been pass interference. Then you add the "non-catch" review play that killed them on 3rd down. All three were crucial drive killers. Don't get me wrong, Minnesota made their fair share of blunders and did pretty much get outplayed, but there were some calls that just should have been made that were'nt. ...I'm also so sick of hearing how Brady is the second coming of Christ. Between him and Manning, I can't stand watching them on TV because of the huge orgasm that is directed to them. __________________ We have a million reasons for failure, but not one excuse... Die Donks, DIE!! Holy Crap fellas!!! We did it!!! THREE TIMES!!!
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10-31-2006, 11:36 AM	#27
Kyle401 1st Round Bust Join Date: Feb 2005 Casino cash: $10004900	Keg has a good point. The increased coverage of pro football allows fans to see practically every mistake that the officials make. In 2003, the NFL forced some officials to retire based on performance (blown calls) so they may do so again. The officiating last night was particularly bad. Somehow Larry Nemmers always seems to get a playoff game so he must grade out pretty well in the NFL's opinion. He did the PIT/CIN wildcard game last year. __________________ Adopt a Chief: Eric "Bench Warmer" Hicks - AKA Hali's Towel Boy
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10-31-2006, 11:55 AM	#28
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3159627 VARSITY	Ed Hockney (the one with the huge biceps) is the only one that seems to be consistent. At least that I can remember. __________________ Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. -YODA
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