Youth sports talk: any coaches or parents here?

[memyselfI]

My son has played competative soccer for three+ seasons. He's having a great experience. We've been lucky to find good coaching with nice independent clubs. I have felt comfortable having him be one of the best players on a good team vs. having him be a good player on the best team. The reason behind this is because I want to maintain a balance of playing at a competative level but it not take over his life, or ours, as parents.

At what age does this thinking begin to negatively impact his performance? I happen to think that 10 years of age is a little young to be pressuring kids to perform at a more mature level. The literature I've read on this seems to support my thinking and yet you hear of teams that are increasingly demanding more from their players at younger and younger ages.

My other thought was about players who are struggling and might actually impede the team because of the skill level. Are parents doing their child a favor if he clearly is not at the skill set of his teammates? We have this situation on one of our teams, and while I agree that development is most important at this age, is it fair to the team, let alone the player, to have a player like this on the team? Personally, I would pull my son and try to find him a better fit because I think they learn more in situations that allow them to succeed vs. fail.

Thoughts?

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by memyselfI

But with the knowledge that there is only one 'champion' at most sports, shouldn't there also be an appreciation and love of the game that transcends competition? Is it wrong to encourage your child just to play because they love doing it? Must one be indoctrinating their child to win or don't bother?

Interesting question. One thing I pride myself on is finishing. If I'm down 46-0 in football, I'm going to finish the game. If I've got a king and a pawn left in chess, I'm going to finish the game. I never concede, and in part it's because I'm playing - whatever it is - because I want to play.

On the other hand, it annoys me when someone concedes just because they're losing.* If I'm up 46-0, I don't want the other person to quit, either. If we start a game, then by God we're going to finish it.

It annoys me even more when someone concedes even if there's a chance that they could still come back and win. Have these people never heard of Frank Reich?




* Interestingly, I've sometimes been called ruthless in games, because if I'm pounding someone, I still want to keep pounding. It's not ego in my case, but rather just a desire to see the product through to the end. I do exactly the same thing when I'm getting pounded.

[Katipan]

that's hot.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by memyselfI

He's having a ball...no pun intended. I'm more concerned that we are doing what is best for him at this age and juncture than how he's feeling because he's fine.

I guess my concern is, can you turn off the cut throat and forget how to turn it back on?

This wasn't really even an issue until I saw these parents leaving their kid on a team that he clearly should not have made in the first place. I've heard they complain about his playing time. I've tried to put myself in their shoes and I don't think I could leave him on a team where he clearly over his head. But then I've not been there so how would I know? We have tried to do what was best for him right NOW.

I guess my fear might be that not challenging him enough at this age might catch up with us later. Maybe these parents are doing their kid a favor in some weird way.

Those other parents should be the ones doing something....that can be more detrimental to their kid, than they know IMO.

Your kid will be fine; as long as he's got coaches who are competitive-minded and not satisfied with medocrity--even if, as a coach you have mediocrity, he pushes them to over-achieve.....those coaches will keep the fire burning.

[memyselfI]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Interesting question. One thing I pride myself on is finishing. If I'm down 46-0 in football, I'm going to finish the game. If I've got a king and a pawn left in chess, I'm going to finish the game. I never concede, and in part it's because I'm playing - whatever it is - because I want to play.

On the other hand, it annoys me when someone concedes just because they're losing.* If I'm up 46-0, I don't want the other person to quit, either. If we start a game, then by God we're going to finish it.



* Interestingly, I've sometimes been called ruthless in games, because if I'm pounding someone, I still want to keep pounding. It's not ego in my case, but rather just a desire to see the product through to the end. I do exactly the same thing when I'm getting pounded.

He's the same way. He'll be mad as a hornet if his team doesn't win. But what he'll focus on is how he missed a goal at the end of the game that might have made the score 10-2.

[memyselfI]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

Those other parents should be the ones doing something....that can be more detrimental to their kid, than they know IMO.

Your kid will be fine; as long as he's got coaches who are competitive-minded and not satisfied with medocrity--even if, as a coach you have mediocrity, he pushes them to over-achieve.....those coaches will keep the fire burning.

Ok, big sigh of relief. (even if coming from your help. )

I just do not want to get him on this merry go round any sooner than we must. Ten years old just seems insane. And yet, it's the wave of the future.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by memyselfI

Ok, big sigh of relief. (even if coming from your help. )

I just do not want to get him on this merry go round any sooner than we must. Ten years old just seems insane. And yet, it's the wave of the future.

If that other kid doesn't have self-esteem and other issues to pride himself on.....those other parents are really doing him a disservice in my mind. Not to mention taking the fun out of the game....

If your kid loses his edge, so-to-speak, because he's been a performer on a mediocre team.....it will take one coach, one good team, one season of competition at the HS to get it back. That's been my experience...

It will probably involve a conservative Republican capitalist coach who voted for Bush too--if you get a liberal Democratic progressive coach---run fast.....

[memyselfI]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

If that other kid doesn't have self-esteem and other issues to pride himself on.....those other parents are really doing him a disservice in my mind. Not to mention taking the fun out of the game....

If your kid loses his edge, so-to-speak, because he's been a performer on a mediocre team.....it will take one coach, one good team, one season of competition at the HS to get it back. That's been my experience...

It will probably involve a conservative Republican capitalist coach who voted for Bush too--if you get a liberal Democratic progressive coach---run fast.....

Thanks one and all for a great discussion. I have to run but would love more feedback if interested.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

* Interestingly, I've sometimes been called ruthless in games, because if I'm pounding someone, I still want to keep pounding. It's not ego in my case, but rather just a desire to see the product through to the end. I do exactly the same thing when I'm getting pounded.

You and DC don't get together for game nights, do you?

[Lono]

Originally Posted by memyselfI

Good question. CNN had a special on this very subject awhile back. They said that 75% of kids drop out of youth sports by age 12.

Here is a good article that was recently published.

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?...Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

I have coached our 5th grade basketall team for the last two years. I am guessing that that number is so high because a lot of kids just come out in the first place because their friends did. When the competition picks up they bail. Half of my team could care less if they learned how to shoot a left handed layup or do a defensive slide. I would guess only about 8 of my 20 kids are there because they like basketball. They listen and pay attention while the others play grab butt. That is the hardest thing about coaching that age group is you always have to stop and make them pay attention.

[memyselfI]

Originally Posted by Boozer

I'll echo this post. You shouldn't keep a kid down to a team where he's always the best player. Give him something to shoot for. About the only reasons I can think to not move him up would be (1) the premier team might be a bad environment (chock full of sicko sports parents) and (2) resources (new team takes too much time, travel costs too much, etc.).

I missed this post earlier.

I agree. I don't care if he's the best player. I want him to have fun and that means playing and it happens that the better players get to play more.

The premier team we are on isn't full of sicko sports parents but I've heard those types of parents and teams are out there if you choose to try out and make them. Which leads me to the second point, we'll put in the time and money necessary at the appropriate age. I don't think 10 is it. I'm afraid though that if we don't partake of the insanity we'll be SOL when it really does start to matter.

And I would hate to think our unwillingness to jump on the merry go round kept him from something he wants later on. Something he doesn't know he wants yet...and we aren't encouraging with any real vigor.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Not to hijack the thread, but this is an interesting question.

I think at the higher levels of competition, it's probably true that females and males are both highly competitive and each savors and pursues victory in a similar manner. (However, at the very highest levels, the financial rewards for men are much greater, and of course they get chicks, which is not to be underestimated.)

At the more moderate levels and lower levels, I think women have a bit more choice or more conflict, depending on your line of thinking. A male who doesn't do well at sports is failing at a basic trait of masculinity, which is a bad thing in the viewpoint of many of his peers and of society, however flawed those expectations may be. A female who doesn't do well at sports is behaving in a more classic feminine manner, which is approved by many of her peers and society, however flawed those expectations may be. Therefore, for a male athlete at the lower levels of a sport, his competition in sports is an all-or-nothing, do-or-die deal. He's either good at it and upholds the ideals of masculinity, as well as getting an ego boost, or he's a non-masculine failure (in the eyes of some/many). For a female, she can choose (or is forced to choose) between two models: non-feminine sports winner with the ego boost of success, or feminine non-athlete, which is not a bad image in some/many views. Thus, the casual female athlete has less incentive for success and more internal conflict associated with success.

If you've read this far, submit your name to me and you will receive one hour of college credit in the Sports Psychology program at Rain Man University.

I read it. Can I have my credit, please?

[Eleazar]

Don't keep a kid on a mediocre team where he's the star player. Put him among better players where he'll be challenged to measure up to them, instead of being the go-to person all the time.

[coach_L]

IMO, 10 is definately too young to be pulling a kid out of recreation because of low skill level. Fun and fundamentals are the most important aspect at this age of children. If these two things are not emphasized right now, there will be a day when your kid will look back at his playing days and not remembering how much fun it was. What will he remember? Failure. Kids are pushed so hard to win that they can't enjoy the little things about sports and they know at the end of the game if they've lost - they've failed.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

* Interestingly, I've sometimes been called ruthless in games, because if I'm pounding someone, I still want to keep pounding. It's not ego in my case, but rather just a desire to see the product through to the end. I do exactly the same thing when I'm getting pounded.

[MahiMike]

Interesting thread.

I have a son that is a superstar in all sports. He was the MVP of his basketball and soccer teams (He's age 7 and just shot a 50 from the women's tees). We quit soccer this year because his team never lost a game in 3 years. We needed more of a challenge and so we signed up for flag football. I was volunteered into coaching and quickly learned that the old school hard-ass coaching that we grew up with in basball wasn't gonna cut it.

The team consists of 10 players - 5 on 5 X 2. So I had a Team 1 and Team 2. I vacillated between having 2 equal teams and 1 good team vs 1 bad team. I made sure that each kid got his playing time. I even had my assistant count the number of plays to ensure we did it fairly. That gave us a nice 0-6 record. For the last 2 games I put the best kids in 75% of the time and we won both.

It felt great to get the monkey off our backs. Parents wouldn't admit it to me directly but I felt the pressure to win even with 6 - 8 yr olds. We always had a great time on Saturdays but the losses stayed with me all week.

I basically came away with 2 huge questions;

1) Is it fair to the superstars to share time with the day dreamers?

2) Is if fair to the day dreamers to get less playing time?

In the end, everyone loves winning. I can remember being a scrawny kid that sat on the bench even though I worked harder than anyone. Our team went 19-1 one year and I barely ever played. For me, I was ok with that since I was a true team player.