Detroit radio saying Lions will target Saunders for HC? - Page 4

cmh6476 · 11-29-2005, 08:51 AM

http://www.fftodayforums.com/forum/i...owtopic=197713

Quote:

Al Saunders from Kansas City and possibly soon to be released Kerry Collins will be the targets of Lions staff this off season.

**HemiEd** · 11-29-2005, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

Yeah, let's get rid of the architect of an offense that has been in the top 3 in the league for 4 years now. The anti-Saunders bias around here is amazing. Top 3 for 4 ****ing years, and you want to get rid of the guy? How long have you been a Chiefs fan? Do you not remember the years and years of ineptitude on offense? When we fire Saunders, maybe we can lure Todd Blackledge out of retirement and return the glory years, huh?

I agree, some people just want change, the chances of it being an improvment are slim IMO. What recycled coach would we hire? Would it be another Marty deciple jockying for field position and a possible field goal? Maybe we could lure Marv Levy out of retirement along with Todd Blackledge. This offense has been a lot of fun to watch, I do not think AS would let a new OC totally shit can it.

jidar · 11-29-2005, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

That's all you got? You don't even understand the argument.

It doesn't matter that I don't want Al as HC, I'm not trying to convince anyone why he should be HC.

I'm pointing out why assuming that Al as HC would run the exact same offense as Al the OC is foolhardy at best.

Please.

Of course it's not going to be the EXACT SAME. So what? Odds are, it's going to be something similar.

htismaqe · 11-29-2005, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jidar

Hello, here come the straw men.

Nobody said it would be exactly the same, just that we expect similiar offensive success from a similar offense.

Funny that in your first two examples at least, that's exactly what those coaches did.

Nobody said it would be exactly the same? Can you read?

And I don't even understand your second sentence. The offense Andy "if given the chance, I wouldn't run the ball at all" Reid runs in Philly is quite different than what he ran in Green Bay.

Mr. Laz · 11-29-2005, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I'm pointing out why assuming that Al as HC would run the exact same offense as Al the OC is foolhardy at best.

not necessarily ...

some head coaches pretty much handle the OC job too. They often hire a OC assistant to handle the details but they call the plays etc and dictate the game plan themselves.

Logical · 11-29-2005, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jidar

How could you possibly know it's going to go the way the Gunther thing did?
It's not like promoting Coordinators is some weird experimental thing to try.
Or did you think Gunther was the first Coordinator to be made a head coach?
I'm not saying it's a sure bet, but it's not a bad one. I think he might pull it off.

There is Saunder's personal history as HC of the Chargers, he took over an aging Chargers offense and was not equipped to rebuild it. Not sure why he is better equipped now to rebuild our aging offensive players.

Mr. Laz · 11-29-2005, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad Logicslav

There is Saunder's personal history as HC of the Chargers, he took over an aging Chargers offense and was not equipped to rebuild it. Not sure why he is better equipped now to rebuild our aging offensive players.

you don't think he's learn anything in the last 10 years?

htismaqe · 11-29-2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

not necessarily ...

some head coaches pretty much handle the OC job too. They often hire a OC assistant to handle the details but they call the plays etc and dictate the game plan themselves.

Like Andy Reid? He handles the playcalling in Philly, and ironically his offense is different than it was when he was OC...

htismaqe · 11-29-2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

Who's the last coordinator to get promoted to HC for the same team and have success?

I can't think of any, but I may be forgetting someone.

Don't expect to get any kind of answer to that.

htismaqe · 11-29-2005, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

you don't think he's learn anything in the last 10 years?

From who? He's coached under Marty and Vermeil.

I'd like to win a playoff game sometime in my life...

jidar · 11-29-2005, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Nobody said it would be exactly the same? Can you read?

God damn, you're getting close to hysterical. If you want to try to find a quote where someone said that, go right ahead. It's pointless though because I don't want to argue about what people are argueing about, semantics is useless, lets just talk reality.

Odds are, if AS is head coach that we end up with an offense similar to what we have now. He's absolutely dominated defenses with it, he's not going to throw it away. He's going to hire someone who he thinks can and will do similar things and then he's going to have his hand in it the whole time.
That's what the odds say, and that's what people like myself would like to see. I bet most of the people arguing with you are thinking exactly this. I don't know where you got this "exact same offense" bullshit. (well maybe I do, it looks like one of those things people yank out of their ass when they're losing an argument).

You'd do everyone a favor if you quit telling us what we expect and then telling us it's wrong.

jidar · 11-29-2005, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad Logicslav

There is Saunder's personal history as HC of the Chargers, he took over an aging Chargers offense and was not equipped to rebuild it. Not sure why he is better equipped now to rebuild our aging offensive players.

Now that's a good argument, and one that makes me pause. Given the exact same situation, it didn't work out for him in SD.
Who is a better choice though?

FringeNC · 11-29-2005, 10:54 AM

When's the last time an OC has been promoted (whether in same organization or different one) and not run the same offensive system? I cannot think of one single example. Not one. The closest I can think of Dennis Green junking the WCO in favor of the Coryell system, but of course, but his wasn't a promotion.

It's absurd to suggest that we won't run the Coryell offense if Saunders is promoted. That is really Saunders only claim to fame -- his knowledge and execution of Coryell offense. Any team that is interested in hiring him would hire him under the expectation that this is the system he'd run.

Whether Saunders would be a great coach, and could keep the O going without Vermeil -- those are legitimate questions. What isn't legitimate is suggesting we wouldn't run the same offensive system under HC Saunders.

htismaqe · 11-29-2005, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jidar

God damn, you're getting close to hysterical. If you want to try to find a quote where someone said that, go right ahead. It's pointless though because I don't want to argue about what people are argueing about, semantics is useless, lets just talk reality.

Odds are, if AS is head coach that we end up with an offense similar to what we have now. He's absolutely dominated defenses with it, he's not going to throw it away. He's going to hire someone who he thinks can and will do similar things and then he's going to have his hand in it the whole time.
That's what the odds say, and that's what people like myself would like to see. I bet most of the people arguing with you are thinking exactly this. I don't know where you got this "exact same offense" bullshit. (well maybe I do, it looks like one of those things people yank out of their ass when they're losing an argument).

You'd do everyone a favor if you quit telling us what we expect and then telling us it's wrong.

Posted just one hour ago:

Of course Saunders would run the same offense.

**dirk digler** · 11-29-2005, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

Who's the last coordinator to get promoted to HC for the same team and have success?

I can't think of any, but I may be forgetting someone.

Mike Martz

htismaqe · 11-29-2005, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

When's the last time an OC has been promoted (whether in same organization or different one) and not run the same offensive system? I cannot think of one single example. Not one. The closest I can think of Dennis Green junking the WCO in favor of the Coryell system, but of course, but his wasn't a promotion.

It's absurd to suggest that we won't run the Coryell offense if Saunders is promoted. That is really Saunders only claim to fame -- his knowledge and execution of Coryell offense. Any team that is interested in hiring him would hire him under the expectation that this is the system he'd run.

Whether Saunders would be a great coach, and could keep the O going without Vermeil -- those are legitimate questions. What isn't legitimate is suggesting we wouldn't run the same offensive system under HC Saunders.

Of course he'd run the Coryell system. That's absurd. Nothing like overzealous hyperbole.

The thing is, there are MULTIPLE and varied versions of the Coryell system. How much does Oakland's offense look like Dallas' of the mid 90's?

Subtle changes happen every time a coach changes positions or teams. To think that we can extend the offense of the last few years just by elevating Saunders to head coach is just setting everyone up for heartache.

I'll ask jspchief's question again:

When was the last time a coordinator was elevated to HC for the same team and that coach was successful?

11-29-2005, 10:54 AM	#57
FringeNC MVP Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NC Casino cash: $1716014	When's the last time an OC has been promoted (whether in same organization or different one) and not run the same offensive system? I cannot think of one single example. Not one. The closest I can think of Dennis Green junking the WCO in favor of the Coryell system, but of course, but his wasn't a promotion. It's absurd to suggest that we won't run the Coryell offense if Saunders is promoted. That is really Saunders only claim to fame -- his knowledge and execution of Coryell offense. Any team that is interested in hiring him would hire him under the expectation that this is the system he'd run. Whether Saunders would be a great coach, and could keep the O going without Vermeil -- those are legitimate questions. What isn't legitimate is suggesting we wouldn't run the same offensive system under HC Saunders.
Posts: 10,173