Shanahan or Gruden?

Mile High Mania · 11-30-2000, 10:09 AM

Ok, DiscoJones made a statement in another thread which basically said that the Raiders were 'right' for firing Shanahan, Gruden is the better coach and will have more SBs when it's all said and done.

I think Gruden is a good coach, and I know that DJ is a homer... so am I, but there's no way to compare the two right now. Gruden hasn't done jack with them yet... other than keep them from fading so far.

In time, possibly DJ's statements may ring true. Obviously, you know where I stand.

What are your thoughts?

Mi_chief_fan · 11-30-2000, 10:15 AM

It's hard to make a fair comparison. Gannon, Wheatley, Brown & Dudley are a far cry from Elway, Davis, R. Smith & Sharpe.

Now, raiderfans, before you jump all over this post, let it be known that Brown is a better receiver than Smith, but the group as a whole is less talented. Plus, the Rat always has a pretty good O-line, unlike chucky.

Now, if they had equal talent, that would be a better measuring stick.

Mile High Mania · 11-30-2000, 10:19 AM

Not to be picky... but, in response to your "if they had equal talent" remark... isn't that the responsiblity of the head coach? True, Elway and Sharpe were there. Davis was not - Smith was developing... etc.

Gruden had Brown, brought over Gannon - a possible MVP candidate (not in my eyes, but that's fine)... so, things are leveling out.

DiscoJones · 11-30-2000, 10:26 AM

I just want to state for the record that I wasn't completely serious when I posted the statement. I just know that Shanahan/Gruden is like Grbac/Gannon for the Faders and Donkeys. Maybe I should go post this on a Donkey board and see what happens.... :p

Honestly, I think Shanahan has Grudens number head-to-head (kind of like Gunther to Shanahan). Shanahan also has two Lombardis and Gruden has none. I guess time will be the ultimate judge.

[This message has been edited by DiscoJones (edited 11-30-2000).]

DanT · 11-30-2000, 10:28 AM

I belive that Gruden will have to win some playoff games first before we can start comparing him to the coach of a team that had one of the most-impressive three-year runs in NFL History (1996-1998). I believe that any playoff team that Gruden faces which has an above-average corps of linebackers has a great chance of beating his team, so I find it hard to imagine him being able to win 3 straight postseaon games in any 1 year, which is a minimum requirement for a Super Bowl Champion.

Mi_chief_fan · 11-30-2000, 10:36 AM

Brad,
Not all coaches have the final say in personnel decisions, and certainly not over Al Davis. The Rat does, doesn't he?

So far, I would have to say that Gruden can get alot out of the talent he has. It's not yet a fair comparison, though.

[This message has been edited by Mi_chief_fan (edited 11-30-2000).]

Mile High Mania · 11-30-2000, 10:39 AM

Ahhh, and there lies the rub...

With Oakland it all reverts back to Al Davis. Maybe Gruden can get his experience there, then go to KC and win his SuperBowls.

Now, wouldn't that just make Raiduh fans puke. :D Two coaches leave, go to divisional foes and win multiple SuperBowls.

Mi_chief_fan · 11-30-2000, 10:40 AM

I'd take Gruden as the head coach here in a minute.

BTW, does Shanny have the final say in personnel?

58Forever · 11-30-2000, 10:41 AM

They both have the silliest looks on their faces I've ever seen....

Shanahan has to get the nod...

I wonder if we can get him as an OC?...

------------------
joe

"The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."
-Joe Theisman, NFL football quarterback and sports analyst

Clint in Wichita · 11-30-2000, 10:42 AM

IMO almost any coach could be successful with a hall-of-fame QB, a 2,000 yard RB, a hall-of-fame TE, and two 1,000 yard receivers.

The Rat hasn't done squat since Elway retired, and his drafts have been even worse than Peterson's.

Marcus Nash.

Mile High Mania · 11-30-2000, 10:46 AM

Clint, it's still too early to be drinking. I've seen shock value statements before, but that one takes the cake.

Go ahead and compare Shanahan's drafts to Peterson's drafts... hell, Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson pretty much give Shanahan the nod over Carl by themselves.

Thanks for the laugh... oh and Elway is not there now, but the team is 8-4. Thanks again, Clint. :D

[This message has been edited by Mile High Mania (edited 11-30-2000).]

MrBlond · 11-30-2000, 10:48 AM

Shannahan, no doubt. Elway played in this league for a long time without winning a Superbowl before Shannahan came along. He also had the guts to start a 6th round pick because he recognized TD was the best running back he had on the roster. Gruden may or may not be great someday but Mike Shanahan has the rings right now and whatever else some may believe, that is the only measure of success in the NFL.

Mi_chief_fan · 11-30-2000, 10:52 AM

Don't forget Brad, the donx have beaten only 2 team with a winning record(Gruden's boys and the Jets)and have only 1 remaining (New Orleans). Kinda says something about the schedule.

[This message has been edited by Mi_chief_fan (edited 11-30-2000).]

Joe Seahawk · 11-30-2000, 10:55 AM

In Mike I trust....Holmgren that is...... [img]http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

**morphius** · 11-30-2000, 11:00 AM

I would take the coach that can get the most out of his players and finds ways to use their strengths to an advantage and not force them into some role they cannot succeed in. For this I will take the wait and see approach, because both are kind of disguesting to me at this point.

11-30-2000, 10:15 AM	#2
Mi_chief_fan There was an idea..... Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Murfreesboro,TN Casino cash: $9942966	It's hard to make a fair comparison. Gannon, Wheatley, Brown & Dudley are a far cry from Elway, Davis, R. Smith & Sharpe. Now, raiderfans, before you jump all over this post, let it be known that Brown is a better receiver than Smith, but the group as a whole is less talented. Plus, the Rat always has a pretty good O-line, unlike chucky. Now, if they had equal talent, that would be a better measuring stick.
Posts: 3,517

11-30-2000, 10:19 AM	#3
Mile High Mania #triggering Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Tejas Casino cash: $3527229	Not to be picky... but, in response to your "if they had equal talent" remark... isn't that the responsiblity of the head coach? True, Elway and Sharpe were there. Davis was not - Smith was developing... etc. Gruden had Brown, brought over Gannon - a possible MVP candidate (not in my eyes, but that's fine)... so, things are leveling out.
Posts: 30,333

11-30-2000, 10:26 AM	#4
DiscoJones The kick is up, it's GOOD Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	I just want to state for the record that I wasn't completely serious when I posted the statement. I just know that Shanahan/Gruden is like Grbac/Gannon for the Faders and Donkeys. Maybe I should go post this on a Donkey board and see what happens.... :p Honestly, I think Shanahan has Grudens number head-to-head (kind of like Gunther to Shanahan). Shanahan also has two Lombardis and Gruden has none. I guess time will be the ultimate judge. [This message has been edited by DiscoJones (edited 11-30-2000).]
Posts: 246

11-30-2000, 10:28 AM	#5
DanT Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Davis, CA Casino cash: $4371711	I belive that Gruden will have to win some playoff games first before we can start comparing him to the coach of a team that had one of the most-impressive three-year runs in NFL History (1996-1998). I believe that any playoff team that Gruden faces which has an above-average corps of linebackers has a great chance of beating his team, so I find it hard to imagine him being able to win 3 straight postseaon games in any 1 year, which is a minimum requirement for a Super Bowl Champion.
Posts: 4,230

11-30-2000, 10:36 AM	#6
Mi_chief_fan There was an idea..... Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Murfreesboro,TN Casino cash: $9942966	Brad, Not all coaches have the final say in personnel decisions, and certainly not over Al Davis. The Rat does, doesn't he? So far, I would have to say that Gruden can get alot out of the talent he has. It's not yet a fair comparison, though. [This message has been edited by Mi_chief_fan (edited 11-30-2000).]
Posts: 3,517

11-30-2000, 10:09 AM
Mile High Mania #triggering Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Tejas Casino cash: $3527229	Ok, DiscoJones made a statement in another thread which basically said that the Raiders were 'right' for firing Shanahan, Gruden is the better coach and will have more SBs when it's all said and done. I think Gruden is a good coach, and I know that DJ is a homer... so am I, but there's no way to compare the two right now. Gruden hasn't done jack with them yet... other than keep them from fading so far. In time, possibly DJ's statements may ring true. Obviously, you know where I stand. What are your thoughts?
Posts: 30,333

11-30-2000, 10:39 AM	#7
Mile High Mania #triggering Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Tejas Casino cash: $3527229	Ahhh, and there lies the rub... With Oakland it all reverts back to Al Davis. Maybe Gruden can get his experience there, then go to KC and win his SuperBowls. Now, wouldn't that just make Raiduh fans puke. :D Two coaches leave, go to divisional foes and win multiple SuperBowls.
Posts: 30,333

11-30-2000, 10:40 AM	#8
Mi_chief_fan There was an idea..... Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Murfreesboro,TN Casino cash: $9942966	I'd take Gruden as the head coach here in a minute. BTW, does Shanny have the final say in personnel?
Posts: 3,517

11-30-2000, 10:41 AM	#9
58Forever It's dejavu all over again! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: at home in my own chair Casino cash: $10004900	They both have the silliest looks on their faces I've ever seen.... Shanahan has to get the nod... I wonder if we can get him as an OC?... ------------------ joe "The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." -Joe Theisman, NFL football quarterback and sports analyst
Posts: 1,828

11-30-2000, 10:42 AM	#10
Clint in Wichita Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	IMO almost any coach could be successful with a hall-of-fame QB, a 2,000 yard RB, a hall-of-fame TE, and two 1,000 yard receivers. The Rat hasn't done squat since Elway retired, and his drafts have been even worse than Peterson's. Marcus Nash.
Posts: 4,458

11-30-2000, 10:46 AM	#11
Mile High Mania #triggering Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Tejas Casino cash: $3527229	Clint, it's still too early to be drinking. I've seen shock value statements before, but that one takes the cake. Go ahead and compare Shanahan's drafts to Peterson's drafts... hell, Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson pretty much give Shanahan the nod over Carl by themselves. Thanks for the laugh... oh and Elway is not there now, but the team is 8-4. Thanks again, Clint. :D [This message has been edited by Mile High Mania (edited 11-30-2000).]
Posts: 30,333

11-30-2000, 10:48 AM	#12
MrBlond Lets Rock. Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: South of the border. Casino cash: $10004900	Shannahan, no doubt. Elway played in this league for a long time without winning a Superbowl before Shannahan came along. He also had the guts to start a 6th round pick because he recognized TD was the best running back he had on the roster. Gruden may or may not be great someday but Mike Shanahan has the rings right now and whatever else some may believe, that is the only measure of success in the NFL.
Posts: 12,747

11-30-2000, 10:52 AM	#13
Mi_chief_fan There was an idea..... Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Murfreesboro,TN Casino cash: $9942966	Don't forget Brad, the donx have beaten only 2 team with a winning record(Gruden's boys and the Jets)and have only 1 remaining (New Orleans). Kinda says something about the schedule. [This message has been edited by Mi_chief_fan (edited 11-30-2000).]
Posts: 3,517

11-30-2000, 10:55 AM	#14
Joe Seahawk This place entertains.. Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Seattle Casino cash: $6764435	In Mike I trust....Holmgren that is...... [img]http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
Posts: 5,503

11-30-2000, 11:00 AM	#15
morphius World's finest morphius Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $6875027	I would take the coach that can get the most out of his players and finds ways to use their strengths to an advantage and not force them into some role they cannot succeed in. For this I will take the wait and see approach, because both are kind of disguesting to me at this point.
Posts: 25,974