***Official 2016 STL Cardinals Thread***

[BigRedChief]

• 2011 World Series Championship
• 2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
• 2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
• 2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
• 2015 Central Division title. Won 100 games. Lost in the NLDS.
• Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
• 67 post season wins since 2004. 24+ wins more than any other team.

SI article on our off season, Gives us a "A". ??:
http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/02/12/win...ouis-cardinals

2015 III thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=295296
2015 II thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=293412
2015 I thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=289085

[ChiefsCountry]

No trade clause....

Source: Fowler deal with #STLCards: Five years, $82.5M, full no-trade.

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) December 9, 2016

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Miles

Guess I'm sort of alright with this and hardly excited with giving the pick to the Cubs. Sounding like it might be 1 year and at least 20ish million more than expected.

Ugh just looked up and thought he was a year younger. Getting age 31 to 36 seasons if 5 year rumor is true.

yeah we overpaid. Any FA in this era you have to do that. But, it looks like you have to way over pay for trades nowadays too.

I'm sure that after 3 years or so the deal is going to look worse. Maybe move him to a corner spot? We freed up $30 million in payroll from last year. Dewitt has a ton of money. New cable contract is kicking in. They need to spend that money on the field.

Hate losing the draft pick but that's the price of improving your team. These incremental off seasons are starting to piss me off. Rather give up Dewitt's dead money and the pick than Reyes to improve the team.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Cardinals got their man!

Agreed to a deal with Dexter Fowler.

Sources say #Cardinals made over-the-top offer to Dexter Fowler, to be sure to land CF. @Frank_Cusumano reports he's en route for physical.

— Derrick Goold (@dgoold) December 9, 2016

Sounds like they overpaid to keep him from going to Toronto, too. Jon Heyman wrote an article saying that rumors were the contract put Fowler in the range of 5/80+.

Have a feeling those defensive metrics are going to nose dive in St. Louis.

They won't nosedive as much as they'll just revert.

Dude's never been a good defensive player; I don't think he figured it out at age 30. Last season was a blip on the radar for a guy that's always been a bit underrated offensively but also a bit overrated defensively.

The Cards will have a very good defensive LFer in Grichuck and an above average RFer in Piscotty, so I guess they hope that the combination of guys out there in the OF can cover the necessary ground.

[DJ's left nut]

And now that the 1st rounder is gone, spend what it takes to get Turner.

The team still lacks a solid run producer in the middle of the lineup in the mold of Allen Craig. Turner gives you that and the draft pick cost is now nominal.

You have the money - go make it happen. If you can get him at 5/$90 million, you should take it at this point.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

yeah we overpaid. Any FA in this era you have to do that. But, it looks like you have to way over pay for trades nowadays too.

I'm sure that after 3 years or so the deal is going to look worse. Maybe move him to a corner spot? We freed up $30 million in payroll from last year. Dewitt has a ton of money. New cable contract is kicking in. They need to spend that money on the field.

Hate losing the draft pick but that's the price of improving your team. These incremental off seasons are starting to piss me off. Rather give up Dewitt's dead money and the pick than Reyes to improve the team.

Depends on what happens with Carpenter at 1b.

Because there's not a corner to put him in if Carpenter is still at 1b. Piscotty to 1b is the only moveable part in that OF. Perhaps Bader proves that he's a big league starter and you can put him in CF, Fowler in LF and Grichuk in RF but that would require that you put Piscotty in at 1b.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And now that the 1st rounder is gone, spend what it takes to get Turner.

The team still lacks a solid run producer in the middle of the lineup in the mold of Allen Craig. Turner gives you that and the draft pick cost is now nominal.

You have the money - go make it happen. If you can get him at 5/$90 million, you should take it at this point.

Does Turner really do that though? I've always thought he was kind of just another guy.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Miles

Guess I'm sort of alright with this and hardly excited with giving the pick to the Cubs. Sounding like it might be 1 year and at least 20ish million more than expected.

Ugh just looked up and thought he was a year younger. Getting age 31 to 36 seasons if 5 year rumor is true.

31-35.

They gave him Matt Holliday's money and traded raw power for OBP and a little defensive versatility. Not a disaster by any stretch but the loss of the pick hurts.

But this can't be the only thing they do. This isn't a difference making move on its own. They came into this off-season needing a CFer and a run producer. Turner at 3b is perfect but if not, Encarnacion at 1b and Carpenter back to 3b will work.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Does Turner really do that though? I've always thought he was kind of just another guy.

Look at the bat control and ISO.

The guy has plus contract rates and very strong power skills. So he handles the zone well, likes to swing the bat and hits the ball with authority. Even as a part-time player in '14 and '15, Turner was showing the same hitting profile he showed as a regular in '16.

The issue with Turner is simple age. If you have to give him 5 years, you're buying 32-36 and that's not a great time to have a guy. Ideally they can get him over 4 (because 3 ain't happening). But he probably gives you 2 really good seasons, a 3rd strong season and then 2 where you wish he was someone else's problem (the Peralta curve).

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Look at the bat control and ISO.

The guy has plus contract rates and very strong power skills. So he handles the zone well, likes to swing the bat and hits the ball with authority. Even as a part-time player in '14 and '15, Turner was showing the same hitting profile he showed as a regular in '16.

The issue with Turner is simple age. If you have to give him 5 years, you're buying 32-36 and that's not a great time to have a guy. Ideally they can get him over 4 (because 3 ain't happening). But he probably gives you 2 really good seasons, a 3rd strong season and then 2 where you wish he was someone else's problem (the Peralta curve).

Gotcha.

I think, in todays MLB free agent setting, thats what you're gonna get.

Trading for cost controlled players is getting tough. More and more it's gonna be about your system developing guys and or selling when you aren't winning shit.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Depends on what happens with Carpenter at 1b.

Because there's not a corner to put him in if Carpenter is still at 1b. Piscotty to 1b is the only moveable part in that OF. Perhaps Bader proves that he's a big league starter and you can put him in CF, Fowler in LF and Grichuk in RF but that would require that you put Piscotty in at 1b.

wasnt too impressed with Carp at 3B. He was okay at 1B besides getting pick Off throws from the pitcher.

If Bader is the real deal Then Carp has to go off first to 3b or 2B. A trade will be necessary.

[O.city]

Fans would have hated it, but I still contend the move was to sell last trade deadline. Move Carp, Peralta, Holliday whoever anyone wanted and restock the farm.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

But this can't be the only thing they do. This isn't a difference making move on its own. They came into this off-season needing a CFer and a run producer. Turner at 3b is perfect but if not, Encarnacion at 1b and Carpenter back to 3b will work.

Rosenthal said on hot stove that the Cardinals may not be done yet. Looking at 1B, mentioned Encarcion and moving Carp to 3B and trading Peralta.

[KChiefs1]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

No trade clause....

Source: Fowler deal with #STLCards: Five years, $82.5M, full no-trade.

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) December 9, 2016

Holy shit!

The economics of baseball are out of hand. Dexter Fowler for $16+ million per year?!?!?!?!?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Rosenthal said on hot stove that the Cardinals may not be done yet. Looking at 1B, mentioned Encarcion and moving Carp to 3B and trading Peralta.

I don't think Peralta has any trade value. He's a below average player at this point with a history of injuries AND PED's. Good luck getting more than Lenny Dykstra's other kid.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Fans would have hated it, but I still contend the move was to sell last trade deadline. Move Carp, Peralta, Holliday whoever anyone wanted and restock the farm.

Fans would've understood it.

Mozeliak using the fans as a shield to protect DeWitt's profit margin is irritating as hell.

Yes, the team absolutely should have sold to buttress the next wave of talent. What they seem inclined to do is try to tread water until it gets here instead. That might work, but they have to go all in on that route.

They can't be done. They need a new core with someone like Turner to hold down the fort until Perez, Sierra and Sosa are ready to come up and prove themselves. They need to fill 4 years, essentially, and bridge the gap until Reyes, Martinez, Weaver, Piscotty, Grichuk, Bader, Perez, Sierra, Sosa, Kelly and Diaz are the new core (with a few of those guys perhaps traded to address 1b).

But Bader, Perez, Sierra, Sosa and Kelly are a long ways away and have enough rough edges that you can't just assume they'll get here at all. Grichuk's flaws are obvious and Piscotty ran headlong into the wall last year.

But it sure would've been nice to find another couple of big-time pieces to include in that group. Whatever happens, the Cardinals cannot have another 3-year stretch like they had in that 2013ish range where they are going to produce very very little. They need Flores to be a homerun hire because the gap in the high minors in this system (that I've been talking about for 2 years now) has hit us and hit us hard. Even if the Cards wanted to be in these trade wars, they simply don't have the advanced firepower to pull it off.

That cannot happen if they want to keep things rolling.