|
|
10-10-2012, 02:48 PM | #1 | |
.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Casino cash: $57166239
|
Quote:
Aside from that, you almost don't need the testimony to know Armstrong cheated unless you are emotionally invested into Armstrong hero-worship. The most damning evidence is the Alpe d'Huez. During the Armstrong cheater era, the best cyclists turned in times climbing that mountain that are now thought of to be physically impossible for a human. As soon as testing improved and taking EPO became harder and the sport was mostly cleaned up, race times up that mountain ballooned enormously. Aside from that, we KNOW that all his major competitors cheated. We know this. it is simply not reasonable, at all, to believe that Armstrong could have beaten an entire competition full of cheaters, clean.
__________________
|
|
Posts: 36,130
|
10-10-2012, 02:54 PM | #2 | |
.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Casino cash: $57166239
|
Quote:
People are executed in this country from eyewitness testimony, much less have race results invalidated.
__________________
|
|
Posts: 36,130
|
10-10-2012, 03:09 PM | #3 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Casino cash: $10005059
|
Quote:
|
|
Posts: 3,785
|
10-10-2012, 02:47 PM | #4 |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Casino cash: $10005059
|
For those defending him, there is going to be a big dump of information in a few hours. It might be best just to sit back and wait.
|
Posts: 3,785
|
10-10-2012, 04:13 PM | #5 |
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: St. Louis :(
Casino cash: $9989900
|
Let me preface this by saying that I am basically convinced that Lance used PEDs.
However, I have skimmed the 200 page summary released today and found nothing that seems much different that what we've been hearing for years. Testimony from people with an agenda (lessened penalties for themselves or an axe to grind) and a bunch of circumstantial evidence. Again, I'm pretty convinced he used them. And I know this isn't a murder trial, but I still don't see any smoking guns laying around. Here's a link to the summary in case anyone hasn't seen it: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...4186.html?mod= |
Posts: 2,313
|
10-11-2012, 07:45 AM | #6 |
Y'all are brutalizin' me!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Jim Bob Cooter 4 Heisman
Casino cash: $10000985
|
My guess is the titles will just be vacated, but take that for what it's worth. Which is pretty much nothing.
After reading the first 50 pages of the reasoned decision, it looks like he avoided positives/testing pretty much the same way everybody else who was able to did: prewarning and avoidance. Staff of the USPS/Discovery teams (and their consultants) were already well connected and informed re: doping and testing at the time. Bruyneel, for one, was recently retired from the ONCE program which was well known for it's doping. There was also no rider location program at the time, and there was no out of competition testing done. Since LA focused on the TdF and didn't do many, if any early season races, no one really knew where he was, and he didn't have to do any testing until the TdF or Tour de Suisse or Dauphine or whatever races in June/July were his first competition of the year. Just a few of the instances that were outlined so far and I find especially interesting(the first 50 pages only cover up to the 2000 TdF): -A testing at the '98 worlds where the team saw a testing station being set up in time for them to do saline dilutions (a typical positive masking of the time if you had time to do it). -A '99 positive at the TdF for corticosteroid where a script was created and back-dated for saddle sore treatment. Cortisone use is ok with clearance if being used as medical treatment; clearance was not given until after the fact and it does not appear there was actually a preexisting condition being treated. -Re-testing of 6 '99 TdF samples show EPO use(testing for EPO didn't exist until 2000 and was not very good at detecting until more recently). -In 2000 with the implementation of EPO testing US Postal moved to transfusions. For a legal document it's been a pretty interesting read so far (of course, I'm someone who was riveted by The Death of Marco Pantani)... Obviously I've not gotten to the infamous 2001 Tour de Suisse incident, but I'm quite interested what, if anything, the documents say about it. (For those who aren't familiar: Several rider samples showed probable EPO use; one was Juan Pelota. UCI basically ignored it and over the course of the next year or so LA and JB donated approximately $100k to UCI.)
__________________
MASTER CYLINDER! Last edited by Chest Rockwell; 10-11-2012 at 07:51 AM.. |
Posts: 1,096
|
10-11-2012, 08:31 AM | #7 |
B2B, 3in5, belief in Chief
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: We've lost Luka
Casino cash: $1821852
|
In a clean sport, training and natural ability are the determining factors in winning, and PEDs are the unfair advantage.
In a dirty sport (assuming all top contenders are using PEDs), it goes back to training and genetics to gain the "edge". What does it take to win 7 tours in a row? Just a massive doping program that appears to be supported by the sports own governing body (UCI). I drank deep from the LA kool-aid pitcher, but damn, you're a ****ing liar, Lance. If it sounds too good to be true, more than likely it is.
__________________
KC CHIEFS SB IV LIV LVII LVIII CHAMPIONS "65 Toss Power Trap!" "Triple Gun Trey Right 3 Jet Chip Wasp Y Funnel" "Orange You, Duo Left 30 XL 35 Y Corn Dog" "Trips Right Bunch F Shuttle, Tom&Jerry Right Yellow. Orange, Let's GO!!" |
Posts: 7,940
|
10-11-2012, 11:18 AM | #8 | |
MVP
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Driftless Region
Casino cash: $785564
|
Quote:
So True! The latest rumor is that Lance had UCI over a barrel because they missed some pretty big indicators, in testing, that would have gave him early diagnosis of his Testicular Cancer. After the Festina affair in 1998 (?) I think the UCI just needed a feelgood story and hero. Lance the kid from a broken home, cancer survivor etc.. What they got was a big bully who would cheat and lie at any cost. This is gonna get a whole lot bigger for Lance. |
|
Posts: 8,728
|
10-11-2012, 01:30 PM | #9 | |
Y'all are brutalizin' me!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Jim Bob Cooter 4 Heisman
Casino cash: $10000985
|
Quote:
UCI wanted someone to open the coffers of the US market. Nobody in Europe, and specifically France since that's the only race he ever really cared about, wanted an American to dominate. Pretty much everyone in Europe hated LA cancer or no (mostly because he was an asshole, also somewhat because he was American). UCI could care less about the feel good aspect except for the fact that it got even more people in the US market on board. My feeling is they protected him because he was winning, he was from the US and they saw untapped $$$ potential. I'm a bit confused as to how the cancer thing would have UCI over a barrel (I've not heard the rumors you're talking about, but that would be a big ass barrel) as it seems that would be more of a miss for team/personal doctors. Given the information that's come out (payments to Ferrari as early as February 96; cancer diagnosis was October of the same year), it would be especially hard to believe that personal/team doctors and Ferrari weren't privy to ANY health info UCI could get from testing since they were interested in beating those tests. I think UCI had plenty of their own reasons to be complicit in this without needing to be held over a barrel. Just saying that gives UCI waaaaaay more moral credit than they deserve, but I love a good conspiracy theory as much as anyone.
__________________
MASTER CYLINDER! |
|
Posts: 1,096
|
10-17-2012, 10:10 AM | #10 |
In Search of a Life
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Antonio Tx.
Casino cash: $3874454
|
Ouch
Nike is dropping him and hes stepping down from Livestrong.... I wonder how much longer until Livestrong Park changes its name? http://abcnews.go.com/Business/nike-...ry?id=17498863
__________________
Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning: Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down. One of the best plays Matt has ever made. |
Posts: 66,914
|
10-17-2012, 10:31 AM | #11 | |
B2B, 3in5, belief in Chief
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: We've lost Luka
Casino cash: $1821852
|
Quote:
Nike has to distance themselves at this point. Esp. when it has been reported they were complicit in the doping cover-up. Half a mill hush money to the UCI head doesn't last forever, it would seem.
__________________
KC CHIEFS SB IV LIV LVII LVIII CHAMPIONS "65 Toss Power Trap!" "Triple Gun Trey Right 3 Jet Chip Wasp Y Funnel" "Orange You, Duo Left 30 XL 35 Y Corn Dog" "Trips Right Bunch F Shuttle, Tom&Jerry Right Yellow. Orange, Let's GO!!" |
|
Posts: 7,940
|
10-17-2012, 10:11 AM | #12 |
MVP
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Springfield, MO
Casino cash: $10008735
|
Stupid
|
Posts: 11,651
|
10-18-2012, 07:21 AM | #13 |
MVP
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Driftless Region
Casino cash: $785564
|
The Rats are jumping ship!
Trek dumped the uniballer Giro Anheuser Busch FRS Only one sponsor left. Oakley Expect a tearfull admission soon! |
Posts: 8,728
|
01-13-2013, 02:21 PM | #14 |
Supporter
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Tucson, AZ
Casino cash: $9847493
|
The lying, cheating, fraud is ready to "give a limited confession".
http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance/...frey-interview |
Posts: 24,799
|
01-15-2013, 09:06 AM | #15 |
GBM 8-12-15
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Dayton, Oh.
Casino cash: $10052154
|
|
Posts: 59,997
|
|
|