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Old 05-22-2014, 10:23 PM   #1
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Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
But we used to, until that problem arose in 2019.
Yeah, whenever 2019 rolls around I usually fast forward to 2022 to when all the dust has settled.
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:20 PM   #2
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I've thought about this a few times before.

I do not believe in the theory that there's a lot of civilizations out there who choose not to talk to us and who we can't notice. I also think the theory that civilizations naturally destroy themselves is dumb. Even if you think humans are assholes, some portion of intelligent species out there would be enlightened enough not to kill themselves.

I believe there is a great filter, and that the filter is ahead of us. I think that filter is simply "unable to travel near the speed of light, and unable to warp space".

If you can't travel near or faster than the speed of light, then the mind-boggling vastness of space really puts a damper on any civilization's ability to survive the death of their star, much less colonize other planets.

If we're still alive when our star gets perilously close to cooking our planet during its red giant phase, I imagine we'll try sending out generation ships out of desperation, and they'll probably fail. The End.
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:21 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
I've thought about this a few times before.

I do not believe in the theory that there's a lot of civiliations out there who choose not to talk to us. I also think the theory that civilizations naturally destroy themselves is dumb. Even if you think humans are assholes, some portion of intelligent species out there would be enlightened enough not to kill themselves.

I believe there is a great filter, and that the filter is ahead of us. I think that filter is simply "unable to travel near the speed of light, and unable to warp space".

If you can't travel near or faster than the speed of light, then the mind-boggling vastness of space really puts a damper on any civilization's ability to survive the death of their star, much less colonize other planets.
Yep, that's my take as well.
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:23 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
I've thought about this a few times before.

I do not believe in the theory that there's a lot of civiliations out there who choose not to talk to us. I also think the theory that civilizations naturally destroy themselves is dumb. Even if you think humans are assholes, some portion of intelligent species out there would be enlightened enough not to kill themselves.

I believe there is a great filter, and that the filter is ahead of us. I think that filter is simply "unable to travel near the speed of light, and unable to warp space".

If you can't travel near or faster than the speed of light, then the mind-boggling vastness of space really puts a damper on any civilization's ability to survive the death of their star, much less colonize other planets.

If we're still alive when our star gets perilously close to cooking our planet, I imagine we'll try sending out generation ships out of desperation, and they'll probably fail. The End.
I agree with your take. But I think this article alludes to the same thing with the "Great Filter". Doesn't mean we are wiped out, but our intellectual capacity could simply peak and the concepts needed to rise farther are beyond us. Or it might actually just be physically impossible, no matter how smart we are or how much we learn.
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Old 05-29-2014, 11:47 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by displacedinMN View Post
The laws of physics and light apply to all.
I think that there has be be life out there somewhere.

It would take 100,000 light years to cross our galaxy.
We do not have the capability to travel at the speed of light.
Others may not have either.

Even at the speed of light, space travel is a bitch. How does a species get enough resources to
last even 5 light years? (which is a heck of a lot longer in our travel time)

I just don't think we will ever see life from another place.
At the speed of light, time stops. So why would it take light "years" to do anything?
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Old 05-29-2014, 12:18 PM   #6
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At the speed of light, time stops. So why would it take light "years" to do anything?
That's not necessarily true, since we don't have proper physics to explain things happening at the speed of light. It's not possible to form a frame of reference for a photon. It has no detectable mass, and is traveling faster than c. We can't apply special relativity to a photon for those reasons. Our physics aren't complete enough yet. It might be better to say that at the speed of light, time in unable to yet be defined.
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Old 05-29-2014, 12:33 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
That's not necessarily true, since we don't have proper physics to explain things happening at the speed of light. It's not possible to form a frame of reference for a photon. It has no detectable mass, and is traveling faster than c. We can't apply special relativity to a photon for those reasons. Our physics aren't complete enough yet. It might be better to say that at the speed of light, time in unable to yet be defined.
The duality of light has always bothered me.
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Old 05-29-2014, 12:39 PM   #8
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The duality of light has always bothered me.
Yeah, me too. I expect that someday we'll reach a point where our definitions of light/mass/etc will be changed drastically because we're currently missing something important...
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Old 05-30-2014, 01:42 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
The duality of light has always bothered me.
Yeah, but "lawn chairs" in the garage bother you. You should get a grip on that mind blowing concept with that before you leap into modern physics.
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Old 05-30-2014, 08:29 AM   #10
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The duality of light has always bothered me.
I was fascinated by that too and did some experiments. It turned out that I just had a three-way bulb.
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Old 05-29-2014, 12:50 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
That's not necessarily true, since we don't have proper physics to explain things happening at the speed of light. It's not possible to form a frame of reference for a photon. It has no detectable mass, and is traveling faster than c. We can't apply special relativity to a photon for those reasons. Our physics aren't complete enough yet. It might be better to say that at the speed of light, time in unable to yet be defined.
OK. But the faster the relative velocity, the greater the magnitude of time dilation. And obviously our physics aren't complete, or we wouldn't be speculating about how an alien in a ship might cross the vastness of space.

And if we are talking about aliens in a ship instead of light photons, 100,000 years may have passed on the planet zebu, but said aliens in ship might have only experienced a few minutes.
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Old 05-30-2014, 03:32 PM   #12
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At the speed of light, time stops. So why would it take light "years" to do anything?
I've seen the responses to this post and wanted to point out that time would only theoretically stop or nearly stop for the persons traveling at that speed.
hundreds or thousands of years may have passed by the time you reach your destination.

Any way, I was just reading somewhere that scientists believe a warp drive that could get us to Andromeda in a few weeks is less than 30 years away.
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Old 05-30-2014, 04:19 PM   #13
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Any way, I was just reading somewhere that scientists believe a warp drive that could get us to Andromeda in a few weeks is less than 30 years away.

Well, that would certainly be big news.
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Old 05-30-2014, 04:52 PM   #14
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Well, that would certainly be big news.
I know. Of course, in 1980 everyone thought we would all be driving flying cars right.
I wish i could find the article. I read it while I was using stumbleupon.
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Old 05-22-2014, 09:27 PM   #15
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Very cool article. I now have something to think about in the shower every day for the rest of my life.
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