Other Sports Off Season Lets Talk Guns, Part 2 - Page 27

HonestChieffan · 05:52 PM

Been a while since we had a guns n' ammo discussion.

Some of you are AR shooters Im sure. Im looking at a Colt 6920. Will be my first AR. Picked up a Glock this fall and really enjoy shooting it. Any feedback on that weapon?

Anyone else been in a buy/sell/trade mood with hardware?

kepp · 08-03-2016, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kepp

Everything has arrived...I picked up the lowers from my FFL yesterday...

I finally had a spare couple hours yesterday afternoon (pic attached). I ordered the upper already assembled from Radical Firearms. This was my first time building out a lower so it took me a couple hours watching youtube videos. The hardest part was getting those stupid little roll pins in. I need to get some of the specialized tools...the only thing I bought for this was the castle nut wrench. And the Magpul MOE pistol grip was an EXTREMELY tight fit. I don't know if they are that way in general, or just with the lower I got.

**Trivers** · 08-03-2016, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kepp

I finally had a spare couple hours yesterday afternoon (pic attached). I ordered the upper already assembled from Radical Firearms. This was my first time building out a lower so it took me a couple hours watching youtube videos. The hardest part was getting those stupid little roll pins in. I need to get some of the specialized tools...the only thing I bought for this was the castle nut wrench. And the Magpul MOE pistol grip was an EXTREMELY tight fit. I don't know if they are that way in general, or just with the lower I got.

Looks great. First of many!

Amazon Prime or Midway USA sale with free shipping is how I got my tools.

Getting ready to build another one.

**Dunit35** · 08-03-2016, 11:25 AM

I spent two hours cleaning this 03' and that didn't include the bolt. One of my supervisors took the bolt completely apart and cleaned it up. This gun looks good now. Maybe someday I'll take it to the range.

Delaney37 · 08-03-2016, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kepp

I finally had a spare couple hours yesterday afternoon (pic attached). I ordered the upper already assembled from Radical Firearms. This was my first time building out a lower so it took me a couple hours watching youtube videos. The hardest part was getting those stupid little roll pins in. I need to get some of the specialized tools...the only thing I bought for this was the castle nut wrench. And the Magpul MOE pistol grip was an EXTREMELY tight fit. I don't know if they are that way in general, or just with the lower I got.

Nice build. Here's the roll pin kit I got and so far it works pretty good.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/422...tallation-tool

**Dunit35** · 08-03-2016, 11:30 PM

Anyone know anything about M1 Garands?

Found one I'm very interested in at gunbroker. Wanted someone to run through the pictures.

kepp · 08-04-2016, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delaney37

Nice build. Here's the roll pin kit I got and so far it works pretty good.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/422...tallation-tool

Awesome...thanks. That will likely be my next purchase.

Cheater5 · 08-04-2016, 02:40 PM

All, some very disturbing information, which will affect all in the shooting sports.

U.S. State Department’s Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC), which is primarily responsible for administering the Arms Export Control Act (AECA) and its implementing rules, the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR). The upshot is that DDTC is labeling gunsmiths as “manufacturers” for performing relatively simple work such as threading a barrel or fabricating a small custom part for an older firearm. Under the AECA, “manufacturers” are required to register with DDTC at significant expense or risk onerous criminal Penalties:

http://pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/A...0(Publish).pdf

2. Registration Required – Manufacturing: In response to questions from persons engaged in the business of gunsmithing, DDTC has found in specific cases that ITAR registration is required because the following activities meet the ordinary, contemporary, common meaning of “manufacturing” and, therefore, constitute “manufacturing” for ITAR purposes:

a) Use of any special tooling or equipment upgrading in order to improve the capability of assembled or repaired firearms;

b) Modifications to a firearm that change round capacity;

c) The production of firearm parts (including, but not limited to, barrels, stocks, cylinders, breech mechanisms, triggers, silencers, or suppressors);

d) The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading or reloading of ammunition;

e) The machining or cutting of firearms, e.g., threading of muzzles or muzzle brake installation requiring machining, that results in an enhanced capability;

f) Rechambering firearms through machining, cutting, or drilling;

g) Chambering, cutting, or threading barrel blanks; and

h) Blueprinting firearms by machining the barrel.

So, if you own a lathe or milling machine would that be ” Use of any special tooling or equipment upgrading in order to improve the capability of assembled or repaired firearms” What about Brownells magnabit screwdrivers?

If you convert a bolt action rifle that holds 5 rounds to be a single shot, or convert a shotgun to only hold 3 rounds, you are now a manufacturer. (See b.) They don’t state increase round capacity, only change round capacity.

If you make a stock for a custom rifle or make one for that Parker, you are now a manufacturer, make a set of double set triggers, new barrel for a custom single shot…. You are now a manufacturer (See c.)

Buying a pre threaded/ pre chambered barrel for custom installation, as soon as you touch a lathe bit to that barrel to get correct headspace you are a manufacturer (see e. & h)

And god help you if you actually thread and chamber a barrel, you are definitely a manufacturer (see e. f. g. & h)

Do you reload? “ d. The systemized production of
ammunition,” all reloading by definition is systemized (to arrange in or according to a system; reduce to a system; make systematic), guess what reloaders, you are now a manufacturer. There is no distinction between personal or commercial use, and no definition on quantity. So if you produce one round in a systematic manner you are a manufacturer.

If you look at Category I (j)(1) of the United States Munitions List (USML) (22 CFR § 121.1) there is no exemption for sporting arms, or antique arms:
121.1 General. The United States Munitions
List.
1.
(j) The following interpretations explain and amplify the terms used in this category and throughout this subchapter:
(1) A firearm is a weapon not over .50 caliber (12.7 mm) which is designed to expel a
projectile by the action of an explosive or which may be readily converted to do so.

Think about this for a minute:

You or your gunsmith now has to apply for a 07 Manufacturing License from the ATF, and all the reporting requirements associated with that license.

In addition they now must register with the Department of State, Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC), pay a $2200 annual fee and a whole new set of reporting requirements.

So, to fit a new barrel, stock, cylinder trigger etc., or to blueprint your action your gunsmith must register with ITAR and do all the above.

That’s’ a lot to ask of your gunsmith.

For reloaders: “d. The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading or reloading of ammunition.”

Now, there are NO stipulations stating reloading for personal use is ok, NO stipulations on round count. Bottom line is if you currently reload with a progressive press you are probably in violation of the ITAR as currently written. Are you ready to go get your 07 manufacturing license and pay $2200?

kepp · 08-04-2016, 03:21 PM

What a bunch of crap. This administration is using any end-around it can to take away rights. So if I own a reloader, I'm a manufacturer? Idiocy.

Delaney37 · 08-04-2016, 03:47 PM

JFC. What a load

. And I was just thinking about getting back into reloading!

bdj23 · 08-04-2016, 04:01 PM

That's a load of shit.

Thanks Obama.

InChiefsHeaven · 08-04-2016, 04:12 PM

Since we're freaking out about the government watchdog, I figure I'll drop this here:

http://www.redstate.com/brandon_mors...ed-stored-atf/

Quote:

A common fear of many gun owners is that the government is keeping information about firearm purchases and information that doesn't belong to it, and according to a report from the Government Accountability Office (GAO), that's happening.

The GAO released a June report after it conducted an audit of the ATF and found that the government agency has been storing the personal information of gun owners in noncompliance with federal law. In particular, two of the four systems were were storing information it's specifically prohibited from doing.

More at the link...including the report from the GAO.

Nothing to see here folks. Move along...

**SAUTO** · 08-04-2016, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunit35

Anyone know anything about M1 Garands?

Found one I'm very interested in at gunbroker. Wanted someone to run through the pictures.

The guy I know who knew all about that died last weekend...

kepp · 08-04-2016, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InChiefsHell

Since we're freaking out about the government watchdog, I figure I'll drop this here:

http://www.redstate.com/brandon_mors...ed-stored-atf/

More at the link...including the report from the GAO.

Nothing to see here folks. Move along...

From this article - http://www.truthandaction.org/reveal...ous-operation/

Quote:

A Report of Investigation (ROI) filed by a case agent in the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives (ATF) tracked the gun used in the Paris attacks to a Phoenix gun owner who sold it illegally ... The investigative follow up of the Paris weapon consisted of tracking a paper trail using a 4473 form, which documents a gun’s ownership history by, among other things, using serial numbers.

kepp · 08-05-2016, 09:46 AM

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-1...rifle-kit.html

This would seem to be a good deal if you happen to have a stripped lower laying around.

Cheater5 · 08-05-2016, 10:43 AM

All

Regarding my earlier post; the DOS intent is to redefine gunsmith/manufacturer and to redefine firearm. Historically the rebarreling of firearms (cutting threads, rechambering, recrowning etc.) has been considered a traditional gunsmithing activity. Blueprinting an action has always been a gunsmithing activity.

If you read the 22 July 16 letter, you will see a common theme: things that enhance capability. So, improving the current firearm.

Traditionally gunsmiths have been the go to folks to enhance your firearms capability whether it be putting a Shilen or Heart barrel on your favorite deer rifle, making the action smoother/more reliable, recrowning the muzzle, or correcting headspace. The DOS has now redefined these activities as 'manufacturing'. Meaning that your gunsmith who has a 01 license, must now apply for and obtain a 07 manufacturing license from the ATF, then register with DDTC as a manufacturer, pay $2400 annually and deal with all the administrative BS from DOS as well as ATF.

Want a custom myrtle wood stock for you Winchester model 70? Guess what, your gunsmith now needs to be registered with ITAR.

Additionally, if you read the US Munitions list, you will see that the only exceptions are sporting shotguns with barrels greater than 18 inches and muzzle loading black power rifles. Ever since the GCA of 1968 firearms manufactured prior to 1898 had been considered non-firearms and exempt from the GCA of 1968. The DOS make no mention of exempting Antique firearms.

I’ve talked to a few gunsmiths, and they are seriously weighing their options as to comply or shut the lights off.

01-23-2011, 11:58 AM
HonestChieffan Seeking the Truth daily Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the Country in MO Casino cash: $2114309	Off Season Lets Talk Guns, Part 2 Been a while since we had a guns n' ammo discussion. Some of you are AR shooters Im sure. Im looking at a Colt 6920. Will be my first AR. Picked up a Glock this fall and really enjoy shooting it. Any feedback on that weapon? Anyone else been in a buy/sell/trade mood with hardware? Last edited by Bearcat; 07-28-2015 at 05:52 PM..
Posts: 53,379

08-03-2016, 11:25 AM	#393
Dunit35 Keepin it Real Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Oklahoma Casino cash: $1427045	I spent two hours cleaning this 03' and that didn't include the bolt. One of my supervisors took the bolt completely apart and cleaned it up. This gun looks good now. Maybe someday I'll take it to the range.
Posts: 10,489

08-03-2016, 11:30 PM	#395
Dunit35 Keepin it Real Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Oklahoma Casino cash: $1427045	Anyone know anything about M1 Garands? Found one I'm very interested in at gunbroker. Wanted someone to run through the pictures.
Posts: 10,489

08-04-2016, 02:40 PM	#397
Cheater5 Veteran Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Folly Beach, SC Casino cash: $4997550	This Will Affect All Shooters All, some very disturbing information, which will affect all in the shooting sports. U.S. State Department’s Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC), which is primarily responsible for administering the Arms Export Control Act (AECA) and its implementing rules, the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR). The upshot is that DDTC is labeling gunsmiths as “manufacturers” for performing relatively simple work such as threading a barrel or fabricating a small custom part for an older firearm. Under the AECA, “manufacturers” are required to register with DDTC at significant expense or risk onerous criminal Penalties: http://pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/A...0(Publish).pdf 2. Registration Required – Manufacturing: In response to questions from persons engaged in the business of gunsmithing, DDTC has found in specific cases that ITAR registration is required because the following activities meet the ordinary, contemporary, common meaning of “manufacturing” and, therefore, constitute “manufacturing” for ITAR purposes: a) Use of any special tooling or equipment upgrading in order to improve the capability of assembled or repaired firearms; b) Modifications to a firearm that change round capacity; c) The production of firearm parts (including, but not limited to, barrels, stocks, cylinders, breech mechanisms, triggers, silencers, or suppressors); d) The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading or reloading of ammunition; e) The machining or cutting of firearms, e.g., threading of muzzles or muzzle brake installation requiring machining, that results in an enhanced capability; f) Rechambering firearms through machining, cutting, or drilling; g) Chambering, cutting, or threading barrel blanks; and h) Blueprinting firearms by machining the barrel. So, if you own a lathe or milling machine would that be ” Use of any special tooling or equipment upgrading in order to improve the capability of assembled or repaired firearms” What about Brownells magnabit screwdrivers? If you convert a bolt action rifle that holds 5 rounds to be a single shot, or convert a shotgun to only hold 3 rounds, you are now a manufacturer. (See b.) They don’t state increase round capacity, only change round capacity. If you make a stock for a custom rifle or make one for that Parker, you are now a manufacturer, make a set of double set triggers, new barrel for a custom single shot…. You are now a manufacturer (See c.) Buying a pre threaded/ pre chambered barrel for custom installation, as soon as you touch a lathe bit to that barrel to get correct headspace you are a manufacturer (see e. & h) And god help you if you actually thread and chamber a barrel, you are definitely a manufacturer (see e. f. g. & h) Do you reload? “ d. The systemized production of ammunition,” all reloading by definition is systemized (to arrange in or according to a system; reduce to a system; make systematic), guess what reloaders, you are now a manufacturer. There is no distinction between personal or commercial use, and no definition on quantity. So if you produce one round in a systematic manner you are a manufacturer. If you look at Category I (j)(1) of the United States Munitions List (USML) (22 CFR § 121.1) there is no exemption for sporting arms, or antique arms: 121.1 General. The United States Munitions List. 1. (j) The following interpretations explain and amplify the terms used in this category and throughout this subchapter: (1) A firearm is a weapon not over .50 caliber (12.7 mm) which is designed to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or which may be readily converted to do so. Think about this for a minute: You or your gunsmith now has to apply for a 07 Manufacturing License from the ATF, and all the reporting requirements associated with that license. In addition they now must register with the Department of State, Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC), pay a $2200 annual fee and a whole new set of reporting requirements. So, to fit a new barrel, stock, cylinder trigger etc., or to blueprint your action your gunsmith must register with ITAR and do all the above. That’s’ a lot to ask of your gunsmith. For reloaders: “d. The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading or reloading of ammunition.” Now, there are NO stipulations stating reloading for personal use is ok, NO stipulations on round count. Bottom line is if you currently reload with a progressive press you are probably in violation of the ITAR as currently written. Are you ready to go get your 07 manufacturing license and pay $2200?
Posts: 3,071

08-04-2016, 03:21 PM	#398
kepp MVP Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $5309212	What a bunch of crap. This administration is using any end-around it can to take away rights. So if I own a reloader, I'm a manufacturer? Idiocy.
Posts: 14,496

08-04-2016, 03:47 PM	#399
Delaney37 Starter Join Date: Jun 2010 Casino cash: $6726925	JFC. What a load . And I was just thinking about getting back into reloading! __________________ "Political correctness is tyranny with manners" Charlton Heston
Posts: 543

08-04-2016, 04:01 PM	#400
bdj23 In my youth i pray to keep Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Clown World Casino cash: $2669850	That's a load of shit. Thanks Obama.
Posts: 15,738

08-05-2016, 09:46 AM	#404
kepp MVP Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $5309212	http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-1...rifle-kit.html This would seem to be a good deal if you happen to have a stripped lower laying around.
Posts: 14,496

08-05-2016, 10:43 AM	#405
Cheater5 Veteran Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Folly Beach, SC Casino cash: $4997550	All Regarding my earlier post; the DOS intent is to redefine gunsmith/manufacturer and to redefine firearm. Historically the rebarreling of firearms (cutting threads, rechambering, recrowning etc.) has been considered a traditional gunsmithing activity. Blueprinting an action has always been a gunsmithing activity. If you read the 22 July 16 letter, you will see a common theme: things that enhance capability. So, improving the current firearm. Traditionally gunsmiths have been the go to folks to enhance your firearms capability whether it be putting a Shilen or Heart barrel on your favorite deer rifle, making the action smoother/more reliable, recrowning the muzzle, or correcting headspace. The DOS has now redefined these activities as 'manufacturing'. Meaning that your gunsmith who has a 01 license, must now apply for and obtain a 07 manufacturing license from the ATF, then register with DDTC as a manufacturer, pay $2400 annually and deal with all the administrative BS from DOS as well as ATF. Want a custom myrtle wood stock for you Winchester model 70? Guess what, your gunsmith now needs to be registered with ITAR. Additionally, if you read the US Munitions list, you will see that the only exceptions are sporting shotguns with barrels greater than 18 inches and muzzle loading black power rifles. Ever since the GCA of 1968 firearms manufactured prior to 1898 had been considered non-firearms and exempt from the GCA of 1968. The DOS make no mention of exempting Antique firearms. I’ve talked to a few gunsmiths, and they are seriously weighing their options as to comply or shut the lights off.
Posts: 3,071