Royals 2013 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread - Page 415

duncan_idaho · 10:01 AM

Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner
Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play
A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise.

Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk.

At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor.

Burning questions updates below.

Burning Questions for 2013:

1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation?

Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory.

2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door?
Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster.

3) Does Hosmer bounce back?
Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far.
4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012?
Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go.
5) Who regresses?
Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years.
6) Who plays 2B?
Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it.
7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level?
Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha
8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014?
Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014.
9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse?
Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before.
10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers?
Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it?

Sure-Oz · 06-24-2013, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Bullshit.

Everyone, save DM, knew that Frenchy was a negative WAR player. If Myers lived up to potential, his value + the absence of Frenchy was = to acquiring Shields + Davis.

The trade was a ****ing joke, made by a GM who is an embarrassment.

Yep. Straight up NO other GM makes that trade with the unknowns on the offense aka Hosmer and Moustakas. A team that was really ready to compete would. The Royals will be extremely lucky to get 1 playoff appearance with Shields. they won't though and he'll be traded next year

Prison Bitch · 06-24-2013, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Bullshit.

Everyone, save DM, knew that Frenchy was a negative WAR player. If Myers lived up to potential, his value + the absence of Frenchy was = to acquiring Shields + Davis.

The trade was a ****ing joke, made by a GM who is an embarrassment.

If you want to say signing Frenchy was dumb, everyone agrees. But Myers wasn't playing this year with Gordon and Cain clear starters and $7m owed on French. Did you think we'd just park 7m on the bench?

It turns out that we have but French was going to get the opportunity to bounce back and see if he could hit like 2011. If you argue that the pitchers we got would've been out-done by having Myers play all year then you'd have to prove that. I highly doubt it's true.

TambaBerry · 06-24-2013, 07:25 PM

Who can we trade for to get more power?

tk13 · 06-24-2013, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

I'm convinced that he'd be .300/.385/.490 with 10 HRs, and the two pitchers above would look pretty similar to Davis.

I just don't believe it, I think it's just wishful thinking. It's obvious there are issues with how they develop offensive players, and the general approach to hitting they've taken the last 2 seasons. Myers is probably the best of the lot, but he's not incapable of failing. There are several guys on this team currently who also have a great deal of talent and none of them are hitting near their potential.

But that's a common thread. We're basically running a sports car in 1st gear.

**DeezNutz** · 06-24-2013, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

I just don't believe it, I think it's just wishful thinking. It's obvious there are issues with how they develop offensive players, and the general approach to hitting they've taken the last 2 seasons. Myers is probably the best of the lot, but he's not incapable of failing. There are several guys on this team currently who also have a great deal of talent and none of them are hitting near their potential.

But that's a common thread. We're basically running a sports car in 1st gear.

Agreed.

But we essentially bet significantly on mediocrity, which is beyond infuriating. Myers represented our best long-term chance at success. Shields was, at best, win now.

And the latter isn't going to happen. Thus, we're relegated to chasing a big mistake by trading more treasure to try to acquire a bat.

Prison Bitch · 06-24-2013, 07:33 PM

People seem to forget we did get a guy with 111 innings of sub-3 era so far. He's on pace to have one of the best seasons in the past 15 years for this franchise.

Chiefspants · 06-24-2013, 07:33 PM

Meh, whatever, it's time to move on from this trade.

With Myers, we likely would have been cemented in the toilet this year. Eric Hosmer absolutely raked during his rookie season, and how much did that do for our overall record?

We weren't signing a big time SP free agent, trading was our only option.

I wasn't a fan of the trade when it happened, and it's quite possible that the trade will blow up in our faces, but let's quit pretending that we would be in a better position with Myers.

We wouldn't be, and it's quite possible Myers will still pull a Hosmer/Moose like regression as the season moves forward (those two also dominated when they first started, remember?)

TL;DR: Yes, the trade could blow up in our faces, but hey, at least it will be the end of Dayton if it does!

**DeezNutz** · 06-24-2013, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

People seem to forget we did get a guy with 111 innings of sub-3 era so far. He's on pace to have one of the best seasons in the past 15 years for this franchise.

And it matters the **** not. Which is the ****ing point.

You know when Myers would have mattered? In '15+, when DM's stupid ****ing ass is fired and a competent (we hope) GM is running things.

tk13 · 06-24-2013, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Agreed.

But we essentially bet significantly on mediocrity, which is beyond infuriating. Myers represented our best long-term chance at success. Shields was, at best, win now.

And the latter isn't going to happen. Thus, we're relegated to chasing a big mistake by trading more treasure to try to acquire a bat.

Yeah, but if our offensive players develop we don't have this discussion. Shields is not the problem... he's been great. Just one year ago this starting rotation was equally as bad as our offense is now. If these guys hit they can legitimately be a playoff caliber team... which I wasn't sure was possible.

**DeezNutz** · 06-24-2013, 07:39 PM

No, no. You can hate the trade and still appreciate Shields.

He's a stud. Awesome pitcher who has been sensational this year. The problem is that having Shields in the rotation for a year and a half is about as important as having Soria as a lights-out closer on a 100-loss team.

**SAUTO** · 06-24-2013, 07:39 PM

I can't be happy or even see a good side even if the Myers trade gets moore fired.
Posted via Mobile Device

**SAUTO** · 06-24-2013, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

No, no. You can hate the trade and still appreciate Shields.

He's a stud. Awesome pitcher who has been sensational this year. The problem is that having Shields in the rotation for a year and a half is about as important as having Soria as a lights-out closer on a 100-loss team.

you said it perfectly imo
Posted via Mobile Device

Prison Bitch · 06-24-2013, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

And it matters the **** not. Which is the ****ing point.

You know when Myers would have mattered? In '15+, when DM's stupid ****ing ass is fired and a competent (we hope) GM is running things.

You're banking on us being good in 2015. Under what basis? Danny Duffy and Ventura being starters? We had a two year window with our best bats under cost control, which won't be te case after next year.

There are many reasons we aren't winning and many criticisms of Moore, but this trade thus far is clearly not one.

**DeezNutz** · 06-24-2013, 07:43 PM

Yeah, it's not a two-year window. Gordon through '16. Hosmer through '18. Etc.

There was a reason why Rany went on suicide watch when the trade went down last winter, and it's not because DM suddenly became savvy.

tk13 · 06-24-2013, 07:45 PM

I don't know... there's merit to it... but to me that's almost like saying we don't need a QB because the team sucks. But I think having a front line starter is really important. Having a great offense and five #3 starters isn't going to get you anywhere.

Hosmer and Moose are in their third year. This is when they are supposed to get it. Gordon and Butler are in the prime of their career. Perez is locked in. The pieces are there.

12-11-2012, 09:59 AM
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $1740308	2013 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise. Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk. At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor. Burning questions updates below. Burning Questions for 2013: 1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation? Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory. 2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door? Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster. 3) Does Hosmer bounce back? Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far. 4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012? Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go. 5) Who regresses? Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years. 6) Who plays 2B? Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it. 7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level? Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha 8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014? Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014. 9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse? Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before. 10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers? Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it? Last edited by duncan_idaho; 07-15-2013 at 10:01 AM..
Posts: 21,088

06-24-2013, 07:25 PM	#6213
TambaBerry MVP Join Date: Jan 2013 Casino cash: $1665541	Who can we trade for to get more power?
Posts: 10,609

06-24-2013, 07:33 PM	#6216
Prison Bitch Rabbi Goldmann Join Date: Nov 2012 Casino cash: $5450159	People seem to forget we did get a guy with 111 innings of sub-3 era so far. He's on pace to have one of the best seasons in the past 15 years for this franchise.
Posts: 87,025

06-24-2013, 07:33 PM	#6217
Chiefspants World's Best Boss Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bronco Country Casino cash: $5654654	Meh, whatever, it's time to move on from this trade. With Myers, we likely would have been cemented in the toilet this year. Eric Hosmer absolutely raked during his rookie season, and how much did that do for our overall record? We weren't signing a big time SP free agent, trading was our only option. I wasn't a fan of the trade when it happened, and it's quite possible that the trade will blow up in our faces, but let's quit pretending that we would be in a better position with Myers. We wouldn't be, and it's quite possible Myers will still pull a Hosmer/Moose like regression as the season moves forward (those two also dominated when they first started, remember?) TL;DR: Yes, the trade could blow up in our faces, but hey, at least it will be the end of Dayton if it does!
Posts: 18,353

06-24-2013, 07:39 PM	#6221
SAUTO Shit Join Date: Jun 2008 Casino cash: $10039067	I can't be happy or even see a good side even if the Myers trade gets moore fired. Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 55,715

06-24-2013, 07:45 PM	#6225
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $1972500	I don't know... there's merit to it... but to me that's almost like saying we don't need a QB because the team sucks. But I think having a front line starter is really important. Having a great offense and five #3 starters isn't going to get you anywhere. Hosmer and Moose are in their third year. This is when they are supposed to get it. Gordon and Butler are in the prime of their career. Perez is locked in. The pieces are there.
Posts: 54,947