*** Official Chicago White Sox @ Kansas City Royals Game Thread (5/20) ***

[duncan_idaho]

General thoughts:

1) There is a fundamental softness to this team, and it starts at the top. From players not being held accountable and being coddled instead, to being overly sensitive to the media, to not understanding why fans aren't coming out in droves, it's clear this team worries about the wrong things at the wrong times.

2) This creates a cycle. Most fans - especially the die-hards - are smart enough to realize when the goalposts are being moved and when someone is saying something stupid.

For these reasons, Yost (especially) and Moore frequently show their asses when speaking in public. Whether it's Yost doggedly defending his track record with young players (and how he's never been wrong) or Moore moving the goalposts on any number of things (Davis being the key to the trade, 1000 ABs-1500 ABs-"Do teammates want him here", 6-7 years to win vs 8-10. etc) that type of stuff DOES have an effect on fan support.

3) This team lacks so much toughness, it isn't funny. Just not a mentally tough group of hitters (I think Shields has instilled some of that in the pitching staff, at least with Ventura). And that's a development issue (how you treat players mentally as they are coming up).

4) I have no faith Dayton Moore or this management team can get things done. In fact, it looks to me like the old-school cronies Moore put in charge of minor league pitching and hitting development might have missed the boat with a huge collection of minor league talent.

When you see a group that continually does things that weaken the team and roster for the matter of proving a point (Not demoting Moose because they apparently are so tied to him and Yost has never been wrong, over-using Dyson because they sacrificed a lot of roster flex to keep him, etc), how can you continue to believe in it?

I can't. And I'm about the most positive Royals fan around.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

General thoughts:

1) There is a fundamental softness to this team, and it starts at the top. From players not being held accountable and being coddled instead, to being overly sensitive to the media, to not understanding why fans aren't coming out in droves, it's clear this team worries about the wrong things at the wrong times.

2) This creates a cycle. Most fans - especially the die-hards - are smart enough to realize when the goalposts are being moved and when someone is saying something stupid.

For these reasons, Yost (especially) and Moore frequently show their asses when speaking in public. Whether it's Yost doggedly defending his track record with young players (and how he's never been wrong) or Moore moving the goalposts on any number of things (Davis being the key to the trade, 1000 ABs-1500 ABs-"Do teammates want him here", 6-7 years to win vs 8-10. etc) that type of stuff DOES have an effect on fan support.

3) This team lacks so much toughness, it isn't funny. Just not a mentally tough group of hitters (I think Shields has instilled some of that in the pitching staff, at least with Ventura). And that's a development issue (how you treat players mentally as they are coming up).

4) I have no faith Dayton Moore or this management team can get things done. In fact, it looks to me like the old-school cronies Moore put in charge of minor league pitching and hitting development might have missed the boat with a huge collection of minor league talent.

When you see a group that continually does things that weaken the team and roster for the matter of proving a point (Not demoting Moose because they apparently are so tied to him and Yost has never been wrong, over-using Dyson because they sacrificed a lot of roster flex to keep him, etc), how can you continue to believe in it?

I can't. And I'm about the most positive Royals fan around.

I wish that Moose and Butler had half the "pop" of this post.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

I wish that Moose and Butler had half the "pop" of this post.

The good news is that when I lose faith, good things have tended to happen of late.

I had no faith Missouri would win more than 6-7 games last year.

I had no faith the Chiefs would make the playoffs.

[ChiTown]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

General thoughts:

1) There is a fundamental softness to this team, and it starts at the top. From players not being held accountable and being coddled instead, to being overly sensitive to the media, to not understanding why fans aren't coming out in droves, it's clear this team worries about the wrong things at the wrong times.

2) This creates a cycle. Most fans - especially the die-hards - are smart enough to realize when the goalposts are being moved and when someone is saying something stupid.

For these reasons, Yost (especially) and Moore frequently show their asses when speaking in public. Whether it's Yost doggedly defending his track record with young players (and how he's never been wrong) or Moore moving the goalposts on any number of things (Davis being the key to the trade, 1000 ABs-1500 ABs-"Do teammates want him here", 6-7 years to win vs 8-10. etc) that type of stuff DOES have an effect on fan support.

3) This team lacks so much toughness, it isn't funny. Just not a mentally tough group of hitters (I think Shields has instilled some of that in the pitching staff, at least with Ventura). And that's a development issue (how you treat players mentally as they are coming up).

4) I have no faith Dayton Moore or this management team can get things done. In fact, it looks to me like the old-school cronies Moore put in charge of minor league pitching and hitting development might have missed the boat with a huge collection of minor league talent.

When you see a group that continually does things that weaken the team and roster for the matter of proving a point (Not demoting Moose because they apparently are so tied to him and Yost has never been wrong, over-using Dyson because they sacrificed a lot of roster flex to keep him, etc), how can you continue to believe in it?

I can't. And I'm about the most positive Royals fan around.

Thanks, that just about did it for me. I am now going to slit my wrist.

Seriously, and unfortunately, great post. If you look at my post about the R's Playoff History - essentially a ten year period, 76-85. Those teams were Managed by no-nonsense guys (Whitey Herzog and Dick Howser), and tough, diligent GM's (Joe Burke and John Schuerholz). They also had an owner that gave a damn about the team and the City (Mr. K).

Attitude is driven from the top down. To have a competitive Franchise in KC, you have to be tough enough to do all the little things right. As a Manager, you have to have a proper balance of tough love and kinship with your players. They got to know you have their backs, but they also have to know that there are expectations to met, and TEAM comes before player. Period. Ned seems more content to coddle his guys and his lineup. He's more concerned that "Vargy" gets a shot at the win, vs KNOWING that he's bleeding out and shouldn't be pitching to the next right-handed power bat of the CWS. TEAM before player, Ned. You should know this.

The Pres/GM has to be smart and stay the course. Dayton has no problem staying the course, as long as his course gets to weave in and out of the truth. The truth is that they have been (for the most part) incapable of developing a ML lineup that is capable of producing runs. This is either due to the fact that our Minor League system and instruction is awful, or we are drafting and pursuing the wrong types of players. My bet is on the former. The total number of AB's, their ability to be LIKED by their teammates, etc, etc is all BS. You can either produce at the MLB level, or you can not. Once it is obvious, you have to cut bait - no matter whether it's "your guy(s)" or not. DM's inability to do this will be his ultimate undoing.

The Players? Well, as I mentioned above, this is top driven. They are a product of their environment. It's no wonder that our best leaders in the past have been guys that have come from outside of the Organization (Ie. Shields). The more I hear about Hosmer, Dyson and Moose, the more I realize how detrimental their attitudes are to the Clubhouse. In general, this all makes me very sad.

[siberian khatru]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

General thoughts:

1) There is a fundamental softness to this team, and it starts at the top. From players not being held accountable and being coddled instead, to being overly sensitive to the media, to not understanding why fans aren't coming out in droves, it's clear this team worries about the wrong things at the wrong times.

2) This creates a cycle. Most fans - especially the die-hards - are smart enough to realize when the goalposts are being moved and when someone is saying something stupid.

For these reasons, Yost (especially) and Moore frequently show their asses when speaking in public. Whether it's Yost doggedly defending his track record with young players (and how he's never been wrong) or Moore moving the goalposts on any number of things (Davis being the key to the trade, 1000 ABs-1500 ABs-"Do teammates want him here", 6-7 years to win vs 8-10. etc) that type of stuff DOES have an effect on fan support.

3) This team lacks so much toughness, it isn't funny. Just not a mentally tough group of hitters (I think Shields has instilled some of that in the pitching staff, at least with Ventura). And that's a development issue (how you treat players mentally as they are coming up).

4) I have no faith Dayton Moore or this management team can get things done. In fact, it looks to me like the old-school cronies Moore put in charge of minor league pitching and hitting development might have missed the boat with a huge collection of minor league talent.

When you see a group that continually does things that weaken the team and roster for the matter of proving a point (Not demoting Moose because they apparently are so tied to him and Yost has never been wrong, over-using Dyson because they sacrificed a lot of roster flex to keep him, etc), how can you continue to believe in it?

I can't. And I'm about the most positive Royals fan around.

Couldn't agree more.

I have zero faith that this management can sustain the 2013 success, let alone take it to the next level (90+ wins). Better than Baird does not equal good enough.

The arrogance exhibited by this franchise following last year is really off-putting, both in it its minimal standards and how it's supposed to validate everything DM has done before and after. This franchise is run like a Little League team, where everybody gets ice cream for trying hard. It's downright bizarre how management becomes so personally invested in players like Davies and Francoeur and Getz and Moustakas, giving them more chances to fail than probably any other team would.

Accountability has to come from the very top, from the Glasses, in holding DM to a higher standard, which forces him to hold everyone else to the same standard.

I could say more, but I'm already rambling. It's just so frustrating. Yes, it's better to be .500 than losing 100 games, applause, applause, but that's not good enough!

[Ceej]

Try to have zero expectations next year before the season starts, Duncan.

[siberian khatru]

This team's whole attitude toward offense, like only the cool kids hit home runs, and we're going to sit in the back of the class and outsmart everyone by stringing together 12 singles every night, is another thing that just drives me nuts.