Chiefs Mike and Mike Talking about Geno going #1 overall

patteeu · 03-18-2013, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

That's what gets me. It seems to be peachy for positions like offensive tackle in the eyes of the less intelligent fans. But the thought of doing the exact same thing with the QB position is SCARY! Despite the fact that the QB position is infinitely more important, and affects the entire team more than any other position.

It doesn't make any sense.

Except it's not the exact same thing. You don't do it at either position unless you think you're getting the better player. If you believe that Luke Joeckel is inferior to Branden Albert in the way that it appears the Chiefs think Geno Smith is inferior to Alex Smith, you do everything you can to come to terms with Branden Albert. If you think Luke Joeckel is as much better than Branden Albert as many CPers think Geno is than Alex Smith, you give Albert a low ball offer to stick around as a RT or swing backup and wish him well as he walks out the door.

Molitoth · 03-18-2013, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

Except it's not the exact same thing. You don't do it at either position unless you think you're getting the better player. If you believe that Luke Joeckel is inferior to Branden Albert in the way that it appears the Chiefs think Geno Smith is inferior to Alex Smith, you do everything you can to come to terms with Branden Albert. If you think Luke Joeckel is as much better than Branden Albert as many CPers think Geno is than Alex Smith, you give Albert a low ball offer to stick around as a RT or swing backup and wish him well as he walks out the door.

I'm cool with your lack of moving towards insults and attempts at having civilized discussion, but it's still hard for me when everything you post seems like you have just been fine and dandy with everything the chiefs have done.

Has there ever been anything the chiefs done that doesn't really agree with you? It just seems like you back and support everything they do because they are getting paid to do it. I'm not going to sift through 65 thousand of your posts, so I was just wondering if you wanted to say anything you haven't agreed with so I can see where you may be coming from in a different light.

patteeu · 03-18-2013, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth

I'm cool with your lack of moving towards insults and attempts at having civilized discussion, but it's still hard for me when everything you post seems like you have just been fine and dandy with everything the chiefs have done.

Has there ever been anything the chiefs done that doesn't really agree with you? It just seems like you back and support everything they do because they are getting paid to do it. I'm not going to sift through 65 thousand of your posts, so I was just wondering if you wanted to say anything you haven't agreed with so I can see where you may be coming from in a different light.

Yeah, I thought they should have canned Cassel after year 3 or at the very least bring in the kind of competition that you expect to win the job.

I thought Pioli should have kept Herm on for one more year after his youth movement to see what he could do with it, partly because it was so late in the coach hiring season and partly because I just thought Herm deserved a chance to see his plan though a bit. If, after that year, Pioli wasn't satisfied, I would have been onboard with a change and Pioli would have had plenty of time to find the right guy (which, we've since learned, he may have been incapable of doing in any event).

I was never a fan of Elvis Grbac (I wanted them to sign Jeff George at the time). I didn't like it when they benched Rich Gannon or when they let him go in favor of Grbac, although I understood it on a financial level.

I didn't care for the Dontari Poe draft pick because it seemed like it was pure need plus workout rather than high quality player based on college production. I hope I'm wrong about that one.

I didn't like the Trent Green trade and after the first year I was ready to dump him.

But mostly when I disagree with them, I don't jump to the conclusion that they're stupid. I wait to see how it pans out. I think I've been right about some things (e.g. Gannon and moving on from Cassel after year 3) and I may well have been wrong about others (e.g. Jeff George and Trent Green).

Molitoth · 03-18-2013, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

Yeah, I thought they should have canned Cassel after year 3 or at the very least bring in the kind of competition that you expect to win the job.

I thought ***** should have kept Herm on for one more year after his youth movement to see what he could do with it, partly because it was so late in the coach hiring season and partly because I just thought Herm deserved a chance to see his plan though a bit. If, after that year, ***** wasn't satisfied, I would have been onboard with a change and ***** would have had plenty of time to find the right guy (which, we've since learned, he may have been incapable of doing in any event).

I was never a fan of Elvis Grbac (I wanted them to sign Jeff George at the time). I didn't like it when they benched Rich Gannon or when they let him go in favor of Grbac, although I understood it on a financial level.

I didn't care for the Dontari Poe draft pick because it seemed like it was pure need plus workout rather than high quality player based on college production. I hope I'm wrong about that one.

I didn't like the Trent Green trade and after the first year I was ready to dump him.

But mostly when I disagree with them, I don't jump to the conclusion that they're stupid. I wait to see how it pans out. I think I've been right about some things (e.g. Gannon and moving on from Cassel after year 3) and I may well have been wrong about others (e.g. Jeff George and Trent Green).

Good to know. I've pretty much been in the same boat as you when it comes to "wait and see" before I get pissed... but this year has just been different. I suppose I have been "waiting and seeing" for far too long. Every year I watch the QB position become more and more important. I watch teams like the Bengals go from complete shit to playoff bound just because they drafted Andy Dalton. I watched Cam Newton come in and scorch NFL defenses in his Rookie Year on a shitty team. Kaepernick is taking his team to a super bowl.

I really wanted this regime to be different, and so far they aren't when it comes to QB. They are still fine with taking QB's that weren't good enough on other teams and that really irks me. Maybe things with Alex Smith will be different, but for now I'm going to make Reid/Dorsey earn my respect before I straight up give it to them. It's a trust issue I guess. If I kept loaning money to my friends and none of them ever paid me back... I'd be a fool to keep loaning friends money.

I think Geno Smith not only has the talent, but the WORK ETHIC and DRIVE to want to be a great QB in this league. He is NOT Jamarcus Russel who was a lazy bastard wanting a big payday. If you study Geno Smith, he loves football and he wants to be great, along with being humble about it. I just hope he gets drafted by a franchise that will support him and give him what he needs to succeed instead of pigeonholding him into doing things that may not work to his strengths. I hope the Eagles get him tbh... Chip Kelley with Geno would be fun to watch. I dread Geno going to Buffalo or Oakland.

Fish · 03-18-2013, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

Except it's not the exact same thing. You don't do it at either position unless you think you're getting the better player. If you believe that Luke Joeckel is inferior to Branden Albert in the way that it appears the Chiefs think Geno Smith is inferior to Alex Smith, you do everything you can to come to terms with Branden Albert. If you think Luke Joeckel is as much better than Branden Albert as many CPers think Geno is than Alex Smith, you give Albert a low ball offer to stick around as a RT or swing backup and wish him well as he walks out the door.

Which position is the overall offensive production more dependent on? LT or QB?

A great QB can overcome the deficiencies of a less-than-great LT. But a great LT can do little to overcome the deficiencies of a less-than-great QB.

If you don't have a great QB, the best LT in the world isn't going to make much difference in the overall production of the offense. Teams do whatever possible to find that great QB. The QB is the engine. The LT is simply one of the tires. It's the most important tire, but still only a tire. Why buy the best tires in the world to put on a car with a 2 cylinder engine?

In today's NFL, it's proven to be much easier to replace LTs than QBs.

philfree · 03-18-2013, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

Which position is the overall offensive production more dependent on? LT or QB?

A great QB can overcome the deficiencies of a less-than-great LT. But a great LT can do little to overcome the deficiencies of a less-than-great QB.

If you don't have a great QB, the best LT in the world isn't going to make much difference in the overall production of the offense. Teams do whatever possible to find that great QB. The QB is the engine. The LT is simply one of the tires. It's the most important tire, but still only a tire. Why buy the best tires in the world to put on a car with a 2 cylinder engine?

In today's NFL, it's proven to be much easier to replace LTs than QBs.

Since we have Alex Smith we better make sure we have a good/great LT. A great LT can also make an AVG QB look great too. We saw what happened to Trent Geen once we lost Wilie Roaf.

Fish · 03-18-2013, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

Since we have Alex Smith we better make sure we have a good/great LT. A great LT can also make an AVG QB look great too. We saw what happened to Trent Geen once we lost Wilie Roaf.

Branden Albert has sufficiently proven himself already. Joeckel has not.

And no, a great LT doesn't make an average QB look great.

Willie Roaf was one of the best in history, and Green was average/above average. And we still couldn't sniff a playoff victory.

Molitoth · 03-18-2013, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

Branden Albert has sufficiently proven himself already. Joeckel has not.

And no, a great LT doesn't make an average QB look great.

Willie Roaf was one of the best in history, and Green was average/above average. And we still couldn't sniff a playoff victory.

While I understand your point.... that playoff loss was on the Chiefs lack of defense... not Trent Green. Our Offense was nearly unstoppable in a couple of those seasons.

philfree · 03-18-2013, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

Branden Albert has sufficiently proven himself already. Joeckel has not.

And no, a great LT doesn't make an average QB look great.

Willie Roaf was one of the best in history, and Green was average/above average. And we still couldn't sniff a playoff victory.

Yeah well we had no D and Trent didn't finish the home opener without big Willie.

Brock · 03-18-2013, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

Yeah well we had no D and Trent didn't finish the home opener without big Willie.

Had more to do with the hermification of the offense.

**The Franchise** · 03-18-2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

Since we have Alex Smith we better make sure we have a good/great LT. A great LT can also make an AVG QB look great too. We saw what happened to Trent Geen once we lost Wilie Roaf.

Alex Smith takes sacks DESPITE having an awesome offensive line.