Misc I just registered for the LSAT - Page 3

irishjayhawk · 08-16-2008, 04:50 PM

Any advice? (Yes, I know "be smart."

)

Good prep sites, books or the like?

Slayer Diablo · 08-16-2008, 07:43 PM

Seriously, start with one or two practice tests to see what your weaknesses are and study until your head hurts. Then have a well-balanced meal, rest, and study for at least another week or two. Of course, go back to study your strengths every now and then as well...even if they're your strong points, practice makes slightly better, and studying different subjects/subject-types from time to time will help you retain new information about your weak points.

Slayer Diablo · 08-16-2008, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eazyb81

Princeton Review works well. You suck if you can't surpass 170.

Seriously though, don't go to law school if your heart's not in it. It's not the huge money maker that many think it is, and 3 years is a grind if you're not fully committed.

It seemed alright for analytical games and logical reasoning, but I detest--no, hate--the representation of the reading comprehension.

Barron's was pretty good with all of the sections.

**Bearcat** · 08-16-2008, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishjayhawk

If I may, what did you end up going into after the MBA (where are you now)?

I got a decent job while I was taking MBA classes... great company (Hallmark), but the job wasn't all that great (tech support), and it didn't have much potential. I learned pretty quickly that you could only take a few steps forward before running into a bottleneck of people who have been waiting 10+ years to move to the next level. I got a couple of generous raises, and the only reason I bring it up is because I think part of it had to do with getting an MBA. Unlike a lot of people who were just happy to be working there, they knew I was serious about moving up.

Anyway, I left for a company I had previously applied at a couple of times right after my undergrad. I definitely think the MBA helped, since I hadn't gotten past the 2nd interview the previous two times.

It's an IT job, installing/coding/testing/fixing software for customers... not all that glamorous, but getting your foot in the door is most of the battle. I paid for my sh*tty undergrad gpa (it also wasn't the best time for IT, which included a large Sprint layoff just before I graduated), but now I have an ideal job where I have the opportunity to travel the world, working for a company that has customers in ~90 countries.

When you start as one of 200 people applying for a job and you're one of the last 10, you better have something that really sticks out like a great gpa, lots of activities, or multiple degrees.

**jAZ** · 08-16-2008, 08:21 PM

In addition to the regular prep program (don't remember which one), my wife practiced with the logic puzzles in the games magazines.

Ended up top 1% on the exam.

irishjayhawk · 08-16-2008, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jAZ

In addition to the regular prep program (don't remember which one), my wife practiced with the logic puzzles in the games magazines.

Ended up top 1% on the exam.

Logic puzzles like what?

**jAZ** · 08-16-2008, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishjayhawk

Logic puzzles like what?

The magazines had puzzles that were very similar to one of the types of questions on the exam. It was her weakest area, so she just did them constantly.

She's not around for me to ask exactly what they were. Maybe someone here can add a bit more info.

PM if I don't bump this with answer tomorrow and I'll ask her when she's around, or go dig out her materials.

Yosef_Malkovitch · 08-16-2008, 08:56 PM

Well, I haven’t actually POSTED on CP in years, although I do still lurk some. Guess I’ll have to break my silence for this one. This will be somewhat lengthy, but I think you’ll find it’s worth your time to read it if you’re serious about law school.

I went to law school. Not Harvard, but not bottom of the barrel either. I went to Georgia State which, last time I looked, is first tier. It’s in the lower half of that tier, but it’s still first tier.

I got an MBA, too. And I was at the top of my class (top 15%ish). And I did Law Review. I did all that stuff that’s supposed to guarantee a good job. At this point, all I have to show for my trouble is about $100k in debt and a few pieces of paper hanging on the wall. Those degrees look nice, but they don’t pay the bills.

I will not say for sure that law school was a mistake—the day may come when I’m glad I went—but at this point it was the worst decision of my life. I make no more right now than I would have if I had never gone to grad school.

The cost of law school is not limited to the tuition, either: there’s also the opportunity costs. Three years of not making much money at all (especially the first year, when you don’t have time for much other than studying).

Many people think that lawyers make killer money and, to be sure, it is definitely possible. Unfortunately, many lawyers simply don’t live up to the stereotype. Many, many lawyers don’t make the kind of salary most people think they do.

Still, it is possible to make ridiculous amounts of money. Not many professions offer you the possibility of starting at six figures straight out of school. However, be aware that if you do happen to get into one of the jobs starting at $150k you will more than likely be working horrendous hours.

I have a friend who started around $140k and he pretty much lives at work (or he did last time we spoke about it anyways). I won’t bore you with the horror stories. I’ll just say this: do some research on those six-figure lawyer jobs. Jobs at big-name firms like Holland & Knight or King & Spalding or White & Case. Be sure you’re willing to put in those kinds of hours. There is a reason turnover is so high at those firms.

Of course, there’s the other side of the story. I’m sure there are lawyers who make great money and who don’t have to work crazy hours. And, to be honest, if you’re really happy doing what you do, you probably won’t mind either (1) working long hours; or (2) not making much money for someone with your level of education. There is something to be said for job satisfaction, after all.

I think the best advice I can give you is this: go talk to some lawyers. Don’t talk to one or two and then quit. Talk to several, probably no fewer than ten. Ask them what they like, what they don’t like, and what they wish they knew when they started out. Ask them if, knowing everything they know now, they would still go to law school.

Yes, it’s a big investment of your time to run around interviewing lawyers. But then again it’s a *huge* investment to spend three years and thousands upon thousands of dollars to get a degree if you’re not absolutely certain you want to do it.

Most lawyers would be happy to spend 15 or 20 minutes talking with you. Just email them, tell them you’re considering law school, and ask to set up a telephone appointment just to hear what they have to say about the field.

Don’t limit yourself to lawyers in only one area of the law or only one size of law firm, either. Get a good cross-section. Find out what it’s really like to practice law. Get the pros and the cons. Then, and only then, can you make an informed decision as to whether law school is right for you.

patteeu · 08-16-2008, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip Towne

Where are you planning to go to law school?

Are there any decent law schools that accept KU grads? I'd imagine his options are pretty limited.

patteeu · 08-16-2008, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishjayhawk

I would assume I'd stay at KU and enter there. I was strongly considering the JD/MBA 2 year program, but I've heard the two are kinda pointless to pair.

That's quite a bargain. A JD alone usually takes 3 years.

Fat Elvis · 08-16-2008, 11:45 PM

Go into family law. My lawyer is making $175/hour for my divorce.

irishjayhawk · 08-17-2008, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

That's quite a bargain. A JD alone usually takes 3 years.

It may actually be 3, I can't recall exactly.

Chazno · 08-17-2008, 12:06 AM

My wife just graduated last year from UMKC. Her group of friends all graduated at the top of the class (top 15%) and had little to know trouble getting jobs. Some went hardcore working 80 hours a week making 6 figures, some work 40 hours making 40k. Everything Yosef said pretty much mirrors what i have seen the last 4 years.

**jAZ** · 08-17-2008, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishjayhawk

Logic puzzles like what?

I guess my wife didn't do any exam prep program, she just did her own thing. She did a prep program for the Bar exam.

Anyway, she just said it was those logic puzzles in the game magazines that you find at the grocery store.

I found some examples online here:

http://www.crpuzzles.com/logic/index.html

**Skip Towne** · 08-17-2008, 08:55 AM

Just forget law school and go to Atlanta and go to work for an ad agency. You can be dumb as hell and make 70K.

Jenson71 · 08-17-2008, 09:01 AM

Make sure the prep books you get contain real questions that were on previous LSATs. Kaplan seems to be everyone's favorite.

If you have $1500 to spend, take a course.

Are you taking it in October? Will you be a senior by then?

A good LSAT score can really help a poor GPA.

Here's the class profile for KU: http://www.law.ku.edu/admissions/profile.shtml

If you're GPA is less than 3.45, than you'd want to get an LSAT over 157.

If it's less than 3.00, you need to do great -at least 168 great and with a fantastic essay including why your GPA wasn't so good and strong letters of recommendation.

Do not write an essay about how liberal you are and how you want to change the world. Also don't write about how hard it is to be an atheist in a Protestant evangelical region.

08-16-2008, 04:50 PM
irishjayhawk Feelin' Alright Join Date: Aug 2004 Casino cash: $10004900	I just registered for the LSAT Any advice? (Yes, I know "be smart." ) Good prep sites, books or the like?
Posts: 16,887

08-16-2008, 07:43 PM	#31
Slayer Diablo Cross with me Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kansas City, MO Casino cash: $9994900	Seriously, start with one or two practice tests to see what your weaknesses are and study until your head hurts. Then have a well-balanced meal, rest, and study for at least another week or two. Of course, go back to study your strengths every now and then as well...even if they're your strong points, practice makes slightly better, and studying different subjects/subject-types from time to time will help you retain new information about your weak points.
Posts: 11,673

08-16-2008, 08:21 PM	#34
jAZ Supporter Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Tucson, AZ Casino cash: $9847493	In addition to the regular prep program (don't remember which one), my wife practiced with the logic puzzles in the games magazines. Ended up top 1% on the exam.
Posts: 24,799

08-16-2008, 08:56 PM	#37
Yosef_Malkovitch The Lurkiest Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Wichita, KS. Casino cash: $4495999	Well, I haven’t actually POSTED on CP in years, although I do still lurk some. Guess I’ll have to break my silence for this one. This will be somewhat lengthy, but I think you’ll find it’s worth your time to read it if you’re serious about law school. I went to law school. Not Harvard, but not bottom of the barrel either. I went to Georgia State which, last time I looked, is first tier. It’s in the lower half of that tier, but it’s still first tier. I got an MBA, too. And I was at the top of my class (top 15%ish). And I did Law Review. I did all that stuff that’s supposed to guarantee a good job. At this point, all I have to show for my trouble is about $100k in debt and a few pieces of paper hanging on the wall. Those degrees look nice, but they don’t pay the bills. I will not say for sure that law school was a mistake—the day may come when I’m glad I went—but at this point it was the worst decision of my life. I make no more right now than I would have if I had never gone to grad school. The cost of law school is not limited to the tuition, either: there’s also the opportunity costs. Three years of not making much money at all (especially the first year, when you don’t have time for much other than studying). Many people think that lawyers make killer money and, to be sure, it is definitely possible. Unfortunately, many lawyers simply don’t live up to the stereotype. Many, many lawyers don’t make the kind of salary most people think they do. Still, it is possible to make ridiculous amounts of money. Not many professions offer you the possibility of starting at six figures straight out of school. However, be aware that if you do happen to get into one of the jobs starting at $150k you will more than likely be working horrendous hours. I have a friend who started around $140k and he pretty much lives at work (or he did last time we spoke about it anyways). I won’t bore you with the horror stories. I’ll just say this: do some research on those six-figure lawyer jobs. Jobs at big-name firms like Holland & Knight or King & Spalding or White & Case. Be sure you’re willing to put in those kinds of hours. There is a reason turnover is so high at those firms. Of course, there’s the other side of the story. I’m sure there are lawyers who make great money and who don’t have to work crazy hours. And, to be honest, if you’re really happy doing what you do, you probably won’t mind either (1) working long hours; or (2) not making much money for someone with your level of education. There is something to be said for job satisfaction, after all. I think the best advice I can give you is this: go talk to some lawyers. Don’t talk to one or two and then quit. Talk to several, probably no fewer than ten. Ask them what they like, what they don’t like, and what they wish they knew when they started out. Ask them if, knowing everything they know now, they would still go to law school. Yes, it’s a big investment of your time to run around interviewing lawyers. But then again it’s a huge investment to spend three years and thousands upon thousands of dollars to get a degree if you’re not absolutely certain you want to do it. Most lawyers would be happy to spend 15 or 20 minutes talking with you. Just email them, tell them you’re considering law school, and ask to set up a telephone appointment just to hear what they have to say about the field. Don’t limit yourself to lawyers in only one area of the law or only one size of law firm, either. Get a good cross-section. Find out what it’s really like to practice law. Get the pros and the cons. Then, and only then, can you make an informed decision as to whether law school is right for you.
Posts: 2,747

08-16-2008, 11:45 PM	#40
Fat Elvis Sexiest Athlete Join Date: Apr 2001 Casino cash: $1281925	Go into family law. My lawyer is making $175/hour for my divorce.
Posts: 12,400

08-17-2008, 12:06 AM	#42
Chazno Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: asdf Casino cash: $4317963	My wife just graduated last year from UMKC. Her group of friends all graduated at the top of the class (top 15%) and had little to know trouble getting jobs. Some went hardcore working 80 hours a week making 6 figures, some work 40 hours making 40k. Everything Yosef said pretty much mirrors what i have seen the last 4 years.
Posts: 508

08-17-2008, 08:55 AM	#44
Skip Towne Supporter Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: T-Town Casino cash: $10004900	Just forget law school and go to Atlanta and go to work for an ad agency. You can be dumb as hell and make 70K.
Posts: 69,689

08-17-2008, 09:01 AM	#45
Jenson71 fides quaerens intellectum Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: United States Casino cash: $8330900	Make sure the prep books you get contain real questions that were on previous LSATs. Kaplan seems to be everyone's favorite. If you have $1500 to spend, take a course. Are you taking it in October? Will you be a senior by then? A good LSAT score can really help a poor GPA. Here's the class profile for KU: http://www.law.ku.edu/admissions/profile.shtml If you're GPA is less than 3.45, than you'd want to get an LSAT over 157. If it's less than 3.00, you need to do great -at least 168 great and with a fantastic essay including why your GPA wasn't so good and strong letters of recommendation. Do not write an essay about how liberal you are and how you want to change the world. Also don't write about how hard it is to be an atheist in a Protestant evangelical region. Last edited by Jenson71; 08-17-2008 at 09:08 AM..
Posts: 15,986