Football College athletes on their way to a union.

htismaqe · 03-26-2014, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

You can be both a student and an employee, lots of students work part-time at a school.

I would imagine at some point though, that would cause Title IX to die.

**alnorth** · 03-26-2014, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I would imagine at some point though, that would cause Title IX to die.

Not really. I'm guessing Title IX will limit how much the football players can get, by forcing them to share the wealth. Labor laws do not necessarily conflict with title IX, we'll probably just reach a situation where the football and basketball players are told that they can't carve their sports out, that they also have to let all the other athletes into their union.

It would still be a win for them, even if you have to pay all the women and olympic athletes an equal share, its still a lot more than what they get now.

htismaqe · 03-26-2014, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

Not really. I'm guessing Title IX will limit how much the football players can get, by forcing them to share the wealth. Labor laws do not necessarily conflict with title IX, we'll probably just reach a situation where the football and basketball players are told that they can't carve their sports out, that they also have to let all the other athletes into their union.

It would still be a win for them, even if you have to pay all the women and olympic athletes an equal share, its still a lot more than what they get now.

I don't believe colleges are required by law to provide equal access to part-time employment. If what you're saying is true, it's potentially going to impact all work study programs, not just athletics.

**alnorth** · 03-26-2014, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I don't believe colleges are required by law to provide equal access to part-time employment. If what you're saying is true, it's potentially going to impact all work study programs, not just athletics.

Title IX doesn't care if you call it wages, meal money, a stipend, or a scholarship. They can't pay football players more than everyone else, and labor laws will be fine with that.

If college players are employees who can unionize, what would likely happen is the school will say "look folks, we can only afford to pay you all $X. Any higher than that, and we'll just cancel sports and you can all strike. Also, Title IX requires that you get the same, so your pay is X divided by the number of athletes."

Discuss Thrower · 03-26-2014, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

Title IX doesn't care if you call it wages, meal money, a stipend, or a scholarship. They can't pay football players more than everyone else, and labor laws will be fine with that.

If college players are employees who can unionize, what would likely happen is the school will say "look folks, we can only afford to pay you all $X. Any higher than that, and we'll just cancel sports and you can all strike. Also, Title IX requires that you get the same, so your pay is X divided by the number of athletes."

Let me restate what I asked earlier: if an athlete unionizes, can he seek legal retribution once said institution decides to expel him?

**alnorth** · 03-26-2014, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

Let me restate what I asked earlier: if an athlete unionizes, can he seek legal retribution once said institution decides to expel him?

Yes.

"If anyone tries to start a union, we'll fire your ass" is something that employers thought of a long, long time ago. There are very stiff penalties for that.

Discuss Thrower · 03-26-2014, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

Yes.

"If anyone tries to start a union, we'll fire your ass" is something that employers thought of a long, long time ago. There are very stiff penalties for that.

So receiving a scholarship => classifies you as an employee?

Valiant · 03-26-2014, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

Title IX doesn't care if you call it wages, meal money, a stipend, or a scholarship. They can't pay football players more than everyone else, and labor laws will be fine with that.

If college players are employees who can unionize, what would likely happen is the school will say "look folks, we can only afford to pay you all $X. Any higher than that, and we'll just cancel sports and you can all strike. Also, Title IX requires that you get the same, so your pay is X divided by the number of athletes."

Players will sue for money made on their likeness and jerseys for the popular sports outside of the standard equal pay athletes get. Womens sports do not generate money simple as that. This will be a cluster**** beyond all cluster****s. Shit will take decades.

I can see why he says IX will have to change or go away. Each college is basically a different company. Each sport should be a different department/branch. Different pay scales as long as their is a minimum. Of course I think they should do away with athletic scholarships then also.

The landscape will be changing..

BlackHelicopters · 03-26-2014, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valiant

Players will sue for money made on their likeness and jerseys for the popular sports outside of the standard equal pay athletes get. Womens sports do not generate money simple as that. This will be a cluster**** beyond all cluster****s. Shit will take decades.

I can see why he says IX will have to change or go away. Each college is basically a different company. Each sport should be a different department/branch. Different pay scales as long as their is a minimum. Of course I think they should do away with athletic scholarships then also.

The landscape will be changing..

If it signals the. End. Of the NCAA, then I am all for it.

Mosbonian · 03-26-2014, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theelusiveeightrop

If it signals the. End. Of the NCAA, then I am all for it.

I have to ask this question....especially since almost every one of your posts points to this....do you have a real hate for the NCAA?

**alnorth** · 03-26-2014, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valiant

Players will sue for money made on their likeness and jerseys for the popular sports outside of the standard equal pay athletes get. Womens sports do not generate money simple as that. This will be a cluster**** beyond all cluster****s. Shit will take decades.

Thats fine. There would probably be only a couple athletes in all of NCAA sports at any time who are going to be hired as pitchmen.

Outside of commercials, everyone is going to fall under some general likeness agreement with EA, and that money will be split thousands of ways.

Xanathol · 03-26-2014, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

Nope. Most scholarships are just free money

Having a set hours per week to work for the university, a work place to report to on time, a boss who you have to obey, and the fact that keeping your scholarship often depends on your performance, does make you an employee.

Most scholarships have work study tied to them, ie. set hours to work to earn some of the money. At some universities, attendance is reported and thus, the student must attend to maintain their scholarship. Grades must be upheld in all academic scholarships in order to maintain them. Everything you laid out is a criteria for most every major academic scholarship.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

When the athletes for a power school provide over a hundred million dollars of value to that school, you can't just automatically point to the scholarship and declare it to be enough, that is not fair.

Completely untrue. If you look at the costs, no university makes more than ~$38M from their athletic department.

Assuming we are talking walkons as well ( because if they aren't part of the union, that is definitely not fair )...

( taken from LSU's rosters )

120 football players +
~35 baseball players +
20 softball players +
15 basketball players +
15 women's basketball players +
15 volleyball players +
~20 soccer players +
~55 combined swimmers +
~85 combined T&F +
16 combined Tennis +
~15 sand volleyball +
~20 gym +
~15 combined golfers +
~20 combined cross country runners

~= 466 players. LSU is one of 7 major universities that is not subsidized. In 2012, at $114,787,786 coming in and $101,989,116 going out, that's a net of $12,798,670, putting LSU at 8th in net revenue.

Right now, that goes back to the university to fund shortages on the educational side, but I guess you would argue that the money should go to the players instead?

What happens to Missouri, who was last in net revenue in 2012 @ -$16,261,224? Can we get the players to pay the university for its losses? I mean, why stop at 'employee' - they can be stake holders and share in the fruits & losses of their success or lack thereof!

I can remember when as a college athlete, you'd see your 'likeness' in a video game and be completely flattered - not angry because you didn't get paid for it. Over 100 years of college football and this generation is the one that is so arrogant that they feel entitled to 'their share' of a bigger pie instead of valuing the reward they have.... sounds about right, sadly. Its cutting one's nose to spite their face.

htismaqe · 03-26-2014, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanathol

Most scholarships have work study tied to them, ie. set hours to work to earn some of the money. At some universities, attendance is reported and thus, the student must attend to maintain their scholarship. Grades must be upheld in all academic scholarships in order to maintain them. Everything you laid out is a criteria for most every major academic scholarship.

I don't know where you went to school but nowhere around here is work-study required as part of accepting a scholarship.

Scholarships are scholarships, grants are grants, loans are loans, and work-study is work-study.

Discuss Thrower · 03-26-2014, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

Not really. I'm guessing Title IX will limit how much the football players can get, by forcing them to share the wealth. Labor laws do not necessarily conflict with title IX, we'll probably just reach a situation where the football and basketball players are told that they can't carve their sports out, that they also have to let all the other athletes into their union.

It would still be a win for them, even if you have to pay all the women and olympic athletes an equal share, its still a lot more than what they get now.

So would there be a scenario when a D-I FBS school axes all men's sports but football and basketball just to keep the ability to offer 85 scholarships?

**alnorth** · 03-26-2014, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

So would there be a scenario when a D-I FBS school axes all men's sports but football and basketball just to keep the ability to offer 85 scholarships?

nope. They would have to offer 85 women's scholarships as well. Whether or not a student is an employee is not relevant to title ix, they only care about athletic opportunity, and that everyone gets the same compensation, however you define compensation.