Don Banks from SI on Chiefs Coaching/GM

[TRR]

Originally Posted by FAX

One man's inconsistency is another man's surprise attack, Mr. DeezNutz.

Nevertheless, you may be right. Those decisions are situational, though. In order to agree with you, my brain would have to absorb the game circumstances associated with each call.

There's another variable, as well ... who was actually making the call? For example, was it Weis or Methuselah or Haley himself who make the call to run Thomas Jones around right end on 4th and 2 (or whatever it was)? So far as we know, it was Weis. Of course, Weis (a proven megalomaniac in his own right) would probably deny that.

Oh ... and as for "the team quit on him", Mr. PGM ... think about it ... when your GM is proactively busting your balls behind your back on a daily basis, it's a little difficult to lead. I challenge any HC in the entire league to retain his respected leadership status under those circumstances. It's impossible. Cannot be done. No way. No how.

FAX

FWIW, I agree with you. I thought Todd Haley brought discipline to a very undisciplined team, came with a plan chalk full of fresh ideas, and brought an identity to a team that lacked one since Marty Schottenheimer left. Obviously, Todd Haley made his mistakes. He wanted full control of the offense, but was never willing to say it. He ran off multiple OC's, and was obviously tough to work with/for. In the end, I believe the positives of Haley outweighed the negatives.

Romeo didn't come in with a plan. He came in with the approach of "status-quo." What worked for a short time last year will work this year. However, players reverted back to old practice habits, Bowe held out, Tamba got suspended, multiple players suffered nagging injuries IMO because they weren't expected to be in top shape as Haley demanded. The status-quo plan snowballed into a 2-13 team.

This team needs a disciplinarian with a clear direction. They need a GM that will back that disciplinarian up when times get tough, and allow him to grow in the role...knowing it is for the greater good. Haley was one piece of the puzzle. (A QB would go a long way as well...)

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by TRR

FWIW, I agree with you. I thought Todd Haley brought discipline to a very undisciplined team, came with a plan chalk full of fresh ideas, and brought an identity to a team that lacked one since Marty Schottenheimer left. Obviously, Todd Haley made his mistakes. He wanted full control of the offense, but was never willing to say it. He ran off multiple OC's, and was obviously tough to work with/for. In the end, I believe the positives of Haley outweighed the negatives.

Romeo didn't come in with a plan. He came in with the approach of "status-quo." What worked for a short time last year will work this year. However, players reverted back to old practice habits, Bowe held out, Tamba got suspended, multiple players suffered nagging injuries IMO because they weren't expected to be in top shape as Haley demanded. The status-quo plan snowballed into a 2-13 team.

This team needs a disciplinarian with a clear direction. They need a GM that will back that disciplinarian up when times get tough, and allow him to grow in the role...knowing it is for the greater good. Haley was one piece of the puzzle. (A QB would go a long way as well...)

Great post. No Haley defender is saying he was a great coach. We all believe he was a flawed coach, but that the positives outweighed the negatives, and many of the negatives were the product of a tyrannical boss or could be changed by growing up as a coach. We only would have like to have seen how he would have done with a semi reasonable GM and with at least a semi average qb. Maybe he would have still imploded. For my money, if he started a season with jamaal Charles and Kyle orton, those two changes in itself would have turned Haley's team into a legit playoff contender.

[FAX]

Originally Posted by TRR

FWIW, I agree with you. I thought Todd Haley brought discipline to a very undisciplined team, came with a plan chalk full of fresh ideas, and brought an identity to a team that lacked one since Marty Schottenheimer left. Obviously, Todd Haley made his mistakes. He wanted full control of the offense, but was never willing to say it. He ran off multiple OC's, and was obviously tough to work with/for. In the end, I believe the positives of Haley outweighed the negatives.

Romeo didn't come in with a plan. He came in with the approach of "status-quo." What worked for a short time last year will work this year. However, players reverted back to old practice habits, Bowe held out, Tamba got suspended, multiple players suffered nagging injuries IMO because they weren't expected to be in top shape as Haley demanded. The status-quo plan snowballed into a 2-13 team.

This team needs a disciplinarian with a clear direction. They need a GM that will back that disciplinarian up when times get tough, and allow him to grow in the role...knowing it is for the greater good. Haley was one piece of the puzzle. (A QB would go a long way as well...)

That's pretty much how I see it.

We all have strong points and short-comings. All of us. Even Planeteers. Haley had flaws and I have never argued that he was the epitome of human evolution. Still, he represents what the Chiefs needed and still need; a young coach who can put his imprimatur on and grow with the franchise, a coach who focuses on the fundamentals of conditioning and basic football (see turnover records), and a guy who approaches the game with a certain creativity (The Chiefs were once known for innovation and I'd like to see that particular slice of history repeat itself.)

The fact of the matter is that, for whatever reason, Pioli decided to hang Haley out to dry. He developed an absolute hatred for the guy. Why? I can only speculate that Haley thought he was going to be an actual NFL head coach, not a puppet and, when he learned that he was going to have to dance for Dr. Evil, he simply couldn't do it ... it wasn't in his nature.

Meanwhile, Pioli was and is a freaking cancer. His organizational decision-making and personnel decisions aren't just suspect, they're obviously pitiful. He is a man clearly out of his mind and Clark's worst decision to date. Yet people who could not function, let alone thrive, while working directly under Pioli will blame Haley for every possible sin they can conjure up. It's irrational, in my view.

I think the evidence speaks for itself. They say you are what your record says you are. And, when it comes to the Chiefs, nuff said.

FAX

[Ace Gunner]

Originally Posted by FAX

That's pretty much how I see it.

We all have strong points and short-comings. All of us. Even Planeteers. Haley had flaws and I have never argued that he was the epitome of human evolution. Still, he represents what the Chiefs needed and still need; a young coach who can put his imprimatur on and grow with the franchise, a coach who focuses on the fundamentals of conditioning and basic football (see turnover records), and a guy who approaches the game with a certain creativity (The Chiefs were once known for innovation and I'd like to see that particular slice of history repeat itself.)

The fact of the matter is that, for whatever reason, Pioli decided to hang Haley out to dry. He developed an absolute hatred for the guy. Why? I can only speculate that Haley thought he was going to be an actual NFL head coach, not a puppet and, when he learned that he was going to have to dance for Dr. Evil, he simply couldn't do it ... it wasn't in his nature.

Meanwhile, Pioli was and is a freaking cancer. His organizational decision-making and personnel decisions aren't just suspect, they're obviously pitiful. He is a man clearly out of his mind and Clark's worst decision to date. Yet people who could not function, let alone thrive, while working directly under Pioli will blame Haley for every possible sin they can conjure up. It's irrational, in my view.

I think the evidence speaks for itself. They say you are what your record says you are. And, when it comes to the Chiefs, nuff said.

FAX

I agree with both of you here. I would simply add Clark Hunt's worst decision was not Pioli's hiring, but instead Pioli's (non)firing when the time came to make a choice for the franchise. Hunt fired the wrong guy and now he has to start the whole thing over in finding a competent staff for this team -- this is Hunt's worst decision to date.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by Buzz_TinBalls

I agree with both of you here. I would simply add Clark Hunt's worst decision was not Pioli's hiring, but instead Pioli's firing when the time came to make a choice for the franchise. Hunt fired the wrong guy and now he has to start the whole thing over -- this is Hunt's worst decision.

Last year would have been too soon...December 31st is the right time. Ill give him until the 3rd to make that move.

[Ace Gunner]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Last year would have been too soon...December 31st is the right time. Ill give him until the 3rd to make that move.

To be honest, the right time to fire Pioli was after the playoff debacle in which Pioli's QB showed the world how stubborn Pioli is with the QB position. It was evident during that game the 63 million dollar man was not worthy.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by Buzz_TinBalls

To be honest, the right time to fire Pioli was after the playoff debacle in which Pioli's QB showed the world how stubborn Pioli is with the QB position.

That's silly.

You think that the right time to fire Pioli was after he inherited a 2-14 team and made the playoffs in his second year here?

2011s final record was understandable given the rash of major injuries to major players...after 2012 will be the right time.

He has had 2 HC hires, has chosen not to do anything about the QB position and has had 4 drafts.

The right time is new years eve 2012.

[Ace Gunner]

Originally Posted by BossChief

That's silly.

You think that the right time to fire Pioli was after he inherited a 2-14 team and made the playoffs in his second year here?

2011s final record was understandable given the rash of major injuries to major players...after 2012 will be the right time.

He has had 2 HC hires, has chosen not to do anything about the QB position and has had 4 drafts.

The right time is new years eve 2012.

If my manager went out and spent 63 million on a QB that is not even a back up, I'd ****ing hit the ceiling.