Football Trade with Donks...Let's make a steal

**jjchieffan** · 11-12-2010, 12:10 PM

Trading with Broncos turning into game of 'Let's make a steal'
By Elliot Harrison Special to NFL.com

When Browns running back Peyton Hillis hurdled Patriots safety James Sanders on Sunday, it seemed as if for a second he was leaping over all the backs on the Broncos roster. Every thought bubble at Cleveland Browns Stadium must have said, "Thank you, Josh McDaniels."

A lot of people have been silently thanking McDaniels lately. The Hillis trade last March is just one of several moves that worked out better for everyone besides the Broncos. While any GM/head coach can bungle a trade now and then, several of McDaniels' moves just haven't panned. Rather than grill him in this space, it would be more appropriate to ask the simple question: What's Denver's plan?

In order to answer that, we have to review some of the wheelings and dealings of the head coach/de facto co-GM (with Brian Xanders).

» Traded Hillis to Cleveland for Brady Quinn, a sixth-round pick in 2011, and a conditional pick in 2012. Need there be any more words to describe this trade, other than that Hillis has more rushing yards this season than the entire Broncos' stable of backs? McDaniels kept using Knowshon Moreno in short-yardage last season in lieu of the bruiser Hillis, with negative results. It smacked a little of "playing my guy" instead of "my predecessor's guy." Now Hillis is running over everyone's guy in Ohio.

Tony Dejak / Associated Press
Peyton Hillis rushed for 184 yards and has two touchdowns against the Patriots in Week 9.
Notable Broncos trades in Josh McDaniels era
Date Team Traded Received
4/1/2009 Bears QB Jay Cutler, 2009 5th-rounder QB Kyle Orton, first-rounders in 2009 and 2010, 2009 third-round pick
4/14/2009 Dolphins WR Brandon Marshall 2010 and 2011 second-round picks
3/14/2010 Browns RB Peyton Hillis, 2011 6th-rounder, conditional 2012 pick QB Brady Quinn
9/4/2010 Lions CB Alphonso Smith TE Dan Gronkowski
» Traded their 2010 first-round pick to get cornerback Alphonso Smith in the second round of the 2009 draft. After only one year, Denver traded Smith to Lions for tight end Dan Gronkowski. Smith has almost as many interceptions (five) as Gronkowski has receptions (six) this season. Smith has more touchdowns than Gronkowski as well (1-0).

» Traded Brandon Marshall to the Dolphins for two second-round picks. While the Broncos' passing game has no doubt thrived without No. 19, is there anyone on the roster that could make a play to win a game like Marshall's catch-and-run vs. the Cowboys last year? In fairness to the Broncos, they were not likely going to be able to re-sign the petulant receiver after the 2010 season when his contract in Denver was set to expire.

» Traded quarterback Jay Cutler to the Bears. McDaniels whisked two first-round picks, Kyle Orton, as well as a third, for Cutler and a fifth-rounder 18 months ago. From the highway it looks like a heckuva deal with Denver getting a king's ransom of picks as well as Orton's big stats this year. But from the campsite, you begin to see some dead trees, starting with the fact that Orton's 2010 numbers are Enron-esque. No one cares if you put up 300-yard games if you lose two out of every three games like the Broncos have this season. While Orton has played well, McDaniels has already made it clear he's not the future by drafting Tim Tebow. The first-round picks in the Cutler trade eventually became Robert Ayers, a linebacker with promise, as well as Demaryius Thomas, who could eventually be a good receiver if he can stay healthy.

(Interesting sidebar to the Cutler deal: The only Pro Bowl player involved in the trade was Johnny Knox. who was acquired by the Bears with the fifth-round pick and went on to make the Pro Bowl as a kick returner.)

Compiling draft picks is nice; it helps build for the future. Problem is, so many people felt the future was already there in Denver.

Cutler is 27, Marshall 26, Smith 25. Hillis seems like he's been around forever, but he's only 24. While the Broncos had what appeared to be solid drafts in 2009 and 2010, none of the players taken are of Hillis' or Marshall's ilk -- at least not yet.

So what's the deal? Apparently they weren't McDaniels' guys, and he felt he could channel his old boss in New England and stockpile picks. Hey, it worked, sort of. While Denver bagged a bunch of early-round picks, it doesn't do good to draft young talent if they're not playing.

Knowshon Moreno, a first-rounder in 2009, has missed too much time this season with injuries. Even when he has played, he's averaged just 3 yards a crack. Thomas was inactive for the opener, has been on the injury report a couple of times, and has started just one game.

While the injuries aren't McDaniels' fault, he must be held accountable for dealing a wideout that caught more than 100 balls each of the last three seasons and a running back that's outrushed his entire team.

Then there's Tebow. Denver is 2-6 and last in the AFC West, and Orton is not considered the future. McDaniels might as well play him. Even if the offense and blitz schemes are a little much for Tebow to grasp, he can still play.

The former Florida standout is different from Aaron Rodgers and Philip Rivers, both of whom sat on the bench early in their careers, because he can play out of a wildcat set. He's a great athlete that could definitely use some reps in real games and witness NFL game speed. That's one big part of the learning curve for young quarterbacks, and Tebow could benefit from the experience without hurting his team. And yet, McDaniels has rarely dialed Tebow's number in their "Wild Horse" set.

Having arguably the greatest college football player ever rot on the bench is a head-scratcher. That said, not everything McDaniels has done has gone awry.

Free-agent acquisitions Jamal Williams and Kevin Vickerson have done a decent job on the defensive line. Several of McDaniels' draft picks look to be okay -- Ayers, cornerback Perrish Cox, and center J.D. Walton, to name a few. But the reality is the team on the field in Mile High is not as talented as the guys traded away. And the guys traded away were in their prime.

So was Mike Nolan, who despite transforming the Broncos' defense from the NFL's 26th-ranked unit in 2008 to seventh overall in 2009, was allowed to leave for Miami to coordinate the Dolphins' defense. Whatever the circumstances were surrounding the end of that relationship, McDaniels must take some responsibility for a very talented defensive coach exiting the building when the Broncos defense has struggled like it has (currently 23rd in the NFL). Nolan, meanwhile, has improved Miami from 22nd overall defensively to 13th.

While new defensive coordinator Don Martindale doesn't have injured pass rusher Elvis Dumervil at his disposal, the club hasn't done a strong job of drafting building blocks to fit its 3-4 system, one more small indication that the plan, not necessarily McDaniels the coach, is in question.

Make no mistake, McDaniels the coach has struggled. The Broncos have lost 14 of their last 18 games after getting off to a 6-0 start under McDaniels. That would be easier to swallow for Broncos fans if a plan was apparent. While all the results certainly aren't in, the ones that are don't look so good. Some of the many draft picks could end up panning out, but the question is whether McDaniels will be around to bear the fruit.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...?module=HP_cp2

Didn't see it on the front page or page 2 so piss off if repost.

Mile High Mania · 11-12-2010, 01:39 PM

The Hillis and Smith deals are by far bonehead moves... the jury is out on the others, but I wouldn't say the Broncos lost yet on what they received for Cutler/Marshall.

McDaniels is still an idiot though and he needs to be the next former Head Coach of the Denver Broncos.

**BigMeatballDave** · 11-12-2010, 01:43 PM

It would appear McDumbass was wise to trade Cutler. However, if Shanny was still his coach, he would've improved.

Skyy God · 11-12-2010, 02:04 PM

Had no idea Smith was playing well for Detroit. That's the best series of trades ever.

Agent V · 11-12-2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

The Hillis and Smith deals are by far bonehead moves... the jury is out on the others, but I wouldn't say the Broncos lost yet on what they received for Cutler/Marshall.

McDaniels is still an idiot though and he needs to be the next former Head Coach of the Denver Broncos.

Agreed on both points. And if the Cutler/Marshall trades actually don't turn out, it's pretty undeniable proof that he's an awful GM.

Pitt Gorilla · 11-12-2010, 02:30 PM

McDaniels dismantled a pretty strong team.

teedubya · 11-12-2010, 02:34 PM

I didn't read a mention of Tony Scheffler... was he omitted?

jd1020 · 11-12-2010, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief103182

Agreed on both points. And if the Cutler/Marshall trades actually don't turn out, it's pretty undeniable proof that he's an awful GM.

I already think the Cutler trade was a brilliant trade for the Broncos. Orton has been 100x better than Cutler. If you looked up the definition of insane in the dictionary you would see a box score of the Bears vs Redskins with the Cutler quote in caption "If we played him tomorrow I would still throw at him."

FD · 11-12-2010, 02:49 PM

The Alphonso Smith saga is pretty much the funniest thing ever.

Mile High Mania · 11-12-2010, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teedubya

I didn't read a mention of Tony Scheffler... was he omitted?

No, he really didn't do much in Denver ... hasn't done much in DET. Injuries.

Fritz88 · 11-12-2010, 02:54 PM

Love it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mile High Mania · 11-12-2010, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forward Dante

The Alphonso Smith saga is pretty much the funniest thing ever.

So, in 2009 - they give up their 2010 R1 for Smith.

Seahawks take Okung (OT) with that R1 pick. Denver trades Smith for Grownkowski.

So, Denver essentially traded Okung (OT which they could really need) for Smith (CB that they really needed) for a spare freaking TE.

Fritz88 · 11-12-2010, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

So, in 2009 - they give up their 2010 R1 for Smith.

Seahawks take Okung (OT) with that R1 pick. Denver trades Smith for Grownkowski.

So, Denver essentially traded Okung (OT which they could really need) for Smith (CB that they really needed) for a spare freaking TE.

Josh Mc. is really proving that he's an arrogant douche.

Mile High Mania · 11-12-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fritz88

Josh Mc. is really proving that he's an arrogant douche.

It's like he's approaching as fantasy football with real players... and he's the jackass that all the other owners want to target in trades.

**jjchieffan** · 11-12-2010, 03:11 PM

Can't forget how he traded up into the first round for Tebow, who would have fallen to the third round.

11-12-2010, 12:10 PM
jjchieffan Supporter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Highlandville, MO Casino cash: $3222247	Trade with Donks...Let's make a steal Trading with Broncos turning into game of 'Let's make a steal' By Elliot Harrison Special to NFL.com When Browns running back Peyton Hillis hurdled Patriots safety James Sanders on Sunday, it seemed as if for a second he was leaping over all the backs on the Broncos roster. Every thought bubble at Cleveland Browns Stadium must have said, "Thank you, Josh McDaniels." A lot of people have been silently thanking McDaniels lately. The Hillis trade last March is just one of several moves that worked out better for everyone besides the Broncos. While any GM/head coach can bungle a trade now and then, several of McDaniels' moves just haven't panned. Rather than grill him in this space, it would be more appropriate to ask the simple question: What's Denver's plan? In order to answer that, we have to review some of the wheelings and dealings of the head coach/de facto co-GM (with Brian Xanders). » Traded Hillis to Cleveland for Brady Quinn, a sixth-round pick in 2011, and a conditional pick in 2012. Need there be any more words to describe this trade, other than that Hillis has more rushing yards this season than the entire Broncos' stable of backs? McDaniels kept using Knowshon Moreno in short-yardage last season in lieu of the bruiser Hillis, with negative results. It smacked a little of "playing my guy" instead of "my predecessor's guy." Now Hillis is running over everyone's guy in Ohio. Tony Dejak / Associated Press Peyton Hillis rushed for 184 yards and has two touchdowns against the Patriots in Week 9. Notable Broncos trades in Josh McDaniels era Date Team Traded Received 4/1/2009 Bears QB Jay Cutler, 2009 5th-rounder QB Kyle Orton, first-rounders in 2009 and 2010, 2009 third-round pick 4/14/2009 Dolphins WR Brandon Marshall 2010 and 2011 second-round picks 3/14/2010 Browns RB Peyton Hillis, 2011 6th-rounder, conditional 2012 pick QB Brady Quinn 9/4/2010 Lions CB Alphonso Smith TE Dan Gronkowski » Traded their 2010 first-round pick to get cornerback Alphonso Smith in the second round of the 2009 draft. After only one year, Denver traded Smith to Lions for tight end Dan Gronkowski. Smith has almost as many interceptions (five) as Gronkowski has receptions (six) this season. Smith has more touchdowns than Gronkowski as well (1-0). » Traded Brandon Marshall to the Dolphins for two second-round picks. While the Broncos' passing game has no doubt thrived without No. 19, is there anyone on the roster that could make a play to win a game like Marshall's catch-and-run vs. the Cowboys last year? In fairness to the Broncos, they were not likely going to be able to re-sign the petulant receiver after the 2010 season when his contract in Denver was set to expire. » Traded quarterback Jay Cutler to the Bears. McDaniels whisked two first-round picks, Kyle Orton, as well as a third, for Cutler and a fifth-rounder 18 months ago. From the highway it looks like a heckuva deal with Denver getting a king's ransom of picks as well as Orton's big stats this year. But from the campsite, you begin to see some dead trees, starting with the fact that Orton's 2010 numbers are Enron-esque. No one cares if you put up 300-yard games if you lose two out of every three games like the Broncos have this season. While Orton has played well, McDaniels has already made it clear he's not the future by drafting Tim Tebow. The first-round picks in the Cutler trade eventually became Robert Ayers, a linebacker with promise, as well as Demaryius Thomas, who could eventually be a good receiver if he can stay healthy. (Interesting sidebar to the Cutler deal: The only Pro Bowl player involved in the trade was Johnny Knox. who was acquired by the Bears with the fifth-round pick and went on to make the Pro Bowl as a kick returner.) Compiling draft picks is nice; it helps build for the future. Problem is, so many people felt the future was already there in Denver. Cutler is 27, Marshall 26, Smith 25. Hillis seems like he's been around forever, but he's only 24. While the Broncos had what appeared to be solid drafts in 2009 and 2010, none of the players taken are of Hillis' or Marshall's ilk -- at least not yet. So what's the deal? Apparently they weren't McDaniels' guys, and he felt he could channel his old boss in New England and stockpile picks. Hey, it worked, sort of. While Denver bagged a bunch of early-round picks, it doesn't do good to draft young talent if they're not playing. Knowshon Moreno, a first-rounder in 2009, has missed too much time this season with injuries. Even when he has played, he's averaged just 3 yards a crack. Thomas was inactive for the opener, has been on the injury report a couple of times, and has started just one game. While the injuries aren't McDaniels' fault, he must be held accountable for dealing a wideout that caught more than 100 balls each of the last three seasons and a running back that's outrushed his entire team. Then there's Tebow. Denver is 2-6 and last in the AFC West, and Orton is not considered the future. McDaniels might as well play him. Even if the offense and blitz schemes are a little much for Tebow to grasp, he can still play. The former Florida standout is different from Aaron Rodgers and Philip Rivers, both of whom sat on the bench early in their careers, because he can play out of a wildcat set. He's a great athlete that could definitely use some reps in real games and witness NFL game speed. That's one big part of the learning curve for young quarterbacks, and Tebow could benefit from the experience without hurting his team. And yet, McDaniels has rarely dialed Tebow's number in their "Wild Horse" set. Having arguably the greatest college football player ever rot on the bench is a head-scratcher. That said, not everything McDaniels has done has gone awry. Free-agent acquisitions Jamal Williams and Kevin Vickerson have done a decent job on the defensive line. Several of McDaniels' draft picks look to be okay -- Ayers, cornerback Perrish Cox, and center J.D. Walton, to name a few. But the reality is the team on the field in Mile High is not as talented as the guys traded away. And the guys traded away were in their prime. So was Mike Nolan, who despite transforming the Broncos' defense from the NFL's 26th-ranked unit in 2008 to seventh overall in 2009, was allowed to leave for Miami to coordinate the Dolphins' defense. Whatever the circumstances were surrounding the end of that relationship, McDaniels must take some responsibility for a very talented defensive coach exiting the building when the Broncos defense has struggled like it has (currently 23rd in the NFL). Nolan, meanwhile, has improved Miami from 22nd overall defensively to 13th. While new defensive coordinator Don Martindale doesn't have injured pass rusher Elvis Dumervil at his disposal, the club hasn't done a strong job of drafting building blocks to fit its 3-4 system, one more small indication that the plan, not necessarily McDaniels the coach, is in question. Make no mistake, McDaniels the coach has struggled. The Broncos have lost 14 of their last 18 games after getting off to a 6-0 start under McDaniels. That would be easier to swallow for Broncos fans if a plan was apparent. While all the results certainly aren't in, the ones that are don't look so good. Some of the many draft picks could end up panning out, but the question is whether McDaniels will be around to bear the fruit. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...?module=HP_cp2 Didn't see it on the front page or page 2 so piss off if repost.
Posts: 12,619

11-12-2010, 01:39 PM	#2
Mile High Mania #triggering Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Tejas Casino cash: $3477229	The Hillis and Smith deals are by far bonehead moves... the jury is out on the others, but I wouldn't say the Broncos lost yet on what they received for Cutler/Marshall. McDaniels is still an idiot though and he needs to be the next former Head Coach of the Denver Broncos. __________________
Posts: 30,343

11-12-2010, 01:43 PM	#3
BigMeatballDave GBM 8-12-15 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Dayton, Oh. Casino cash: $10052154	It would appear McDumbass was wise to trade Cutler. However, if Shanny was still his coach, he would've improved.
Posts: 59,997

11-12-2010, 02:04 PM	#4
Skyy God 11-5, baby Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Livin the dream Casino cash: $2191557	Had no idea Smith was playing well for Detroit. That's the best series of trades ever.
Posts: 22,416

11-12-2010, 02:30 PM	#6
Pitt Gorilla Banned! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: NOT Columbia, MO 65201 Casino cash: $2740194	McDaniels dismantled a pretty strong team. __________________ Your son is a bench warmer because of your weak genetics not because of the coach Norlin Mommsen is disgusting.
Posts: 46,131

11-12-2010, 02:34 PM	#7
teedubya Most Valuable Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Casino cash: $9480002	I didn't read a mention of Tony Scheffler... was he omitted?
Posts: 36,657

11-12-2010, 02:49 PM	#9
FD Veteran Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indiana Casino cash: $9482813	The Alphonso Smith saga is pretty much the funniest thing ever.
Posts: 4,579

11-12-2010, 02:54 PM	#11
Fritz88 Custom User Title Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $8835943	Love it. Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 12,706

11-12-2010, 03:11 PM	#15
jjchieffan Supporter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Highlandville, MO Casino cash: $3222247	Can't forget how he traded up into the first round for Tebow, who would have fallen to the third round. __________________ Genesis 1:1 In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth. Following the historical accounts and the genealogy from that point on, the age of the Earth is approximately 6000-7000 years old. The Big Bullshit Theory is a lie. It and the evolution theory go against real science. Satan has used our public school system to brainwash everyone into believing these lies. Be not decieved.
Posts: 12,619