*** Official I love Marcus Cooper Thread ***

[Mr. Laz]

Tall,strong and can run ... without him they would have been toasting Dunta Robinson all game long.


Young guy saved our collective asses today

[/edited, because i'm a dumb ass with the wrong picture]


Height: 6-2
Weight: 192
Age: 23
College: Rutgers
Experience:R

[Buckweath]

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

he has zero ints and 1 pass defense all year


He hasn't done much of anything.


I think 1 decent tackle to prevent a 1st down and a pass breakup.


not enough to make up for his shit run defense

It's not just about stats and the Chiefs are like T-3rd in INT so why would you be talking about some player not having an interception, as if every player should have INT even if you're top of the league in that category. And when I think of it, the Chiefs have the most PD in the league.

In case you didn't know, the Chiefs have arguably the best pass defense in the league. I'm not saying Lewis is anything better than average but he's good enough IMO considering the players surrounding him and you'll never have 11 great players on defense too.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I have to wonder how bad one would have to be for 'needs to be upgraded' if Lewis doesn't qualify.

He's not getting torched deep very often because our system uses so much man and our CBs have done the job. For a guy playing the kind of rover safety he usually plays to only have 1 pass defensed means that the CBs are really dominating their matchups and he's simply not being asked to do much.

And he's just an abomination in run support. With as aggressive as the defense is, zones are going to open up over the middle and he's going to need to be able to either stop a scrambling QB or actually make a play on a check-valve WR when he breaks into the open field. He's done none of that this year.

He's a clear liability as soon as someone has the ball past the first level. That happens on runs, passes and scrambles. With the number of hot routes, etc... that our blitzing forces, there are going to be more instances where his abysmal open-field tackling is more critical than his adequate coverage skills.

The only strength I see in the guy is that he remains a very smart player that seems to know this defense extremely well. That said, he's the weak link in this defense and I don't see any reason we shouldn't be actively seeking an upgrade, especially given his unreliable injury history.

Maybe the difference is that he's a weak link on a strong defense instead of the weak link on a weak defense. If the rest of the defense is strong enough that opposing teams can't exploit him very often, he's a "could be upgraded". If they aren't and he is constantly being exploited, he's a "must be upgraded" even at the same ability level.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by Buckweath

It's not just about stats and the Chiefs are like T-3rd in INT so why would you be talking about some player not having an interception, as if every player should have INT even if you're top of the league in that category. And when I think of it, the Chiefs have the most PD in the league.

In case you didn't know, the Chiefs have arguably the best pass defense in the league. I'm not saying Lewis is anything better than average but he's good enough IMO considering the players surrounding him and you'll never have 11 great players on defense too.

I guess we just disagree.

unless Lewis is somehow crucial to the secondary play calling, i just don't see it.


.. never have 11 great players on defense .. lol wut?

we are talking about replacing Lewis with guys already on the roster. You're just being silly.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by patteeu

Maybe the difference is that he's a weak link on a strong defense instead of the weak link on a weak defense. If the rest of the defense is strong enough that opposing teams can't exploit him very often, he's a "could be upgraded". If they aren't and he is constantly being exploited, he's a "must be upgraded" even at the same ability level.

Exactly. Five of our defensive starters are first round picks (by us), and Flowers was a high second. That's a lot of picks and a lot of money already devoted to one side of the ball.

We currently have 3 first round picks (by us) on offense, and one is hurt.

Given that we are already without a second round pick next year and nearly maxed out from a cap standpoint, I don't know that we can afford, to go get somebody that is a proven commodity at this point.

If there is a guy cut, or if someone is flashing in practice, go ahead and give it a try, but I don't see any way you deal for someone this year or target one in the first unless one falls right in your lap who is the perfect mix of need and value.

[mdchiefsfan]

Originally Posted by patteeu

Maybe the difference is that he's a weak link on a strong defense instead of the weak link on a weak defense. If the rest of the defense is strong enough that opposing teams can't exploit him very often, he's a "could be upgraded". If they aren't and he is constantly being exploited, he's a "must be upgraded" even at the same ability level.

Nailed it

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by patteeu

Maybe the difference is that he's a weak link on a strong defense instead of the weak link on a weak defense. If the rest of the defense is strong enough that opposing teams can't exploit him very often, he's a "could be upgraded". If they aren't and he is constantly being exploited, he's a "must be upgraded" even at the same ability level.

I'll add that it's not easy to pick on a FS the way you can pick on a corner. You can gameplan to go after a shitty CB. You can't consistently target the FS. You can continually go over the top, but that still requires time to throw and beating the CB.

[Anyong Bluth]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

When a single bad play can really do a lot of damage to your rating, comparing a guy with 320 snaps to a guy with 130 isn't really that useful.

Cooper's played about 1/3 the snaps that Smith has (which has a value in its own right). That's 200 fewer chances to give up that long pass play that knocks a point off his coverage rating.

I'd take Smith's contributions to the team thus far over Coopers. And ultimately, PFF's rankings agree.

The issue I have and have always had with PFF is that people like Clay try to assign a predictive weight to it and I just don't think it's worth a damn in that regard. That's why he looks like a jackass now for wailing about the Smith signing based on nothing more than what PFF told him. PFF is very matchup/situation dependent and in the end it tells you very little about what a player will do, but rather only what they've done. While past performance is a good barometer for future results, PFF is simply too erratic on a week to week basis for me to trust it to give a long-term outlook.

And that's why some people pour over film, and others work the statistics, but without properly framing both, you're never going to be spot on because evaluation by its very nature is going to have some subjectivity and there will never be a metric for exact talent and performance especially when the game has 22 people on the field and success on an individual level may never dictate success as a unit and vice versa.

It's truly a blending of these observation tools and techniques combined with the accumulated understanding of the game and it's technical side like X's and Os that paints the clearer picture and why scouting talent is such if not the ultimate asset and resource in a teams success short or long term.

[CupidStunt]

PFF guys:

Did Robinson really play 0 snaps last week?

[mcaj22]

I was thinking about Lewis play the first 5 games

I mean, let's face the facts, football 101, probably if you have ever played football you had the fundamentals DRILLED into your head, and the first tackle you whiffed or soft alligator armed or shoulder throw attempt at putting a body in someone at ANY LEVEL of the game got you ****ing BENCHED next to the water cooler with no teammates around you to talk to. And if it didnt happen to you, it probably happened to one of your friends, and the guy behind him was probably ready to step up and stole the position more times than not on defense.

And yet, Kendrick Lewis is still trotting out there every week and every snap. Does he even get yelled at?

Which makes me think its all scheme, they tell him to do that. That if someone gets passed our strong front 7, Berry and Dunta and Abdullah who are all skilled in playing within the box, that Lewis should just, whatever... try and slow him down but dont hit, because he cant hit.

That he is just out the to play single high center field for pass coverage reasons only, and offers no value in anything else but as the one guy that takes away the deep pass in all packages.

I think they tell him to do his best Deion Sanders impression at tackling so it doesnt compromise their pass scheme. I know it's far fetched, but that is the only reason I can see why the guy has not been benched or replaced for clear breakdowns in textbook and football fundamentals. He's just out there to read QBs and WRs. Absolutely nothing else.

[ILChief]

Originally Posted by CupidStunt

PFF guys:

Did Robinson really play 0 snaps last week?

I didn't see him out there at all. I was wondering if he was inactive

[saphojunkie]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Exactly. Five of our defensive starters are first round picks (by us), and Flowers was a high second. That's a lot of picks and a lot of money already devoted to one side of the ball.

We currently have 3 first round picks (by us) on offense, and one is hurt.

Given that we are already without a second round pick next year and nearly maxed out from a cap standpoint, I don't know that we can afford, to go get somebody that is a proven commodity at this point.

If there is a guy cut, or if someone is flashing in practice, go ahead and give it a try, but I don't see any way you deal for someone this year or target one in the first unless one falls right in your lap who is the perfect mix of need and value.

It is clear to me that the offensive line is by far what is holding this team back.

Two firsts, two seconds, and two thirds spent on a position group that is massively underperforming. In fact, OL is the new DL.

Additionally, having Glenn Dorsey (5th overall), Jon Baldwin (1st), javier Arenas (2nd) and Tony Moeaki (3rd) not even on the team anymore is just sickening.

Pioli hit homeruns with a couple of guys, but he struck the **** out with the rest of his picks. I'll take a team hitting consistent doubles over that any day.

[Anyong Bluth]

Originally Posted by patteeu

I'll look, and I can understand a grade of 0.0 on many/most plays that go away from a CB, but if a guy gets obviously beat or knocks his receiver down at the line of scrimmage, I'll be surprised if I find that they don't get a grade.

I think the argument is that the 0 ratings are distributed to everyone and that nullifies assigning a grade on a play that there is no pass defended on. The argument being that your performance against the snaps you do have to make a play on will indicate as such. Teams will also obviously target who they think are their best match ups. The only issue would be when dealing with DBs that are all pro elite and teams simply refuse to throw at them- way less likely to happen now than 5 - 10 years ago, and you don't need a lot of statistics on a known quality like a DB that clearly unless you want to simply look at total number of snaps and see he's not giving up shit.

The argument is also made for not assigning value on every play because a mediocre DB may simply become a skewed elite DB if he plays with terrible other DBS. All of a sudden it looks like you got lock down skills when really it's just your team mate or 2 can't keep within 5 yards of their man, so why would the offense even bother when they have a honey pot to move at will.

[Anyong Bluth]

To add to my point of the value of Cooper because he takes away that 3rd option and Berry has been by a wide margin the best defender in the NFL on TEs- also #1 in shutting them down. So, now there are gaps for easy match ups even if you want to try to spread us out.

New article:

Chiefs secondary best in the nfl by a large margin
They are +27.5 as a unit- that is 15 more points than the SeaHawks, who are ranked 2nd.

That's ****ing domination!

http://kckingdom.com/2013/10/09/pff-...est-secondary/

[Halfcan]

Originally Posted by CupidStunt

PFF guys:

Did Robinson really play 0 snaps last week?

Yes and only gave up 3 big plays-lol

[Color Red]

Originally Posted by theelusiveeightrop

I want to have Cooper's babies

I know you're being funny, but.. that's weird.