need advice with family issue

[ClevelandBronco]

Originally Posted by tooge

Ok, so about 4 weeks ago, I get a call from my mom. she's sobbing as she tells me her fiance (my dad passed 4 years ago) has been verbally abusing her and shoving her and she has decided to have a restraining order and have him removed from the house. I applaud her, tell her I'm there for her, call him and let him know that I am aware of what has been going on, and as far as I'm concerned, he is out permenantly. My mother on the other hand, said things like "if he gets therapy and goes to AA, maybe I'll start by dating him again". She told me that he told her that my father never loved her or us kids. That's when it became personal for me. So I call jackass up, ask if all this is true, he beats around the bush, but eventually fesses up under the guise of too much drinking and some anger management issues. He promises he will get help but just loves my mom. I tell him I'm only 2.5 hours away and wont hesitate to come up there to make sure she is OK. I even let him know, I'm not afraid of a few nights in jail.

So, yesterday, I get home from a weeklong vacation. I call my brother, who my family will be staying with when we go up for Thanksgiving. Through casual conversation, I find out that jackass is back in my mothers house, and plans on being there for Thanksgiving.

I call my mother, she says he's trying very hard and if he screws up, he is out. He has been to a counselor once since this, and no AA meetings or anygthing like that, though he is reportedly on "medication" now.

I told my mother that I'm not comfortable taking my children up there, and since I wasn't the one that made the situation what it is, then perhaps he could leave the house for the day while we are there. She refused, so I said **** it then, we aren't coming. She gets all pissy and tells me all the things she did for me as a mother and I should come up for her. I'm not going on principal, not to mention, I'd be uncomfortable and might even get in the guys face. Am I doing the right thing? Should I just eat my principles, and go and be a good little son and sit there and act nice? What say you Dr. CP?

Sounds like you're the only one doing the right thing. However, if you do something that gets your ass thrown in jail, that a pretty good indication that you've become part of the problem.

You have kids, dude. No jail.

[stevieray]

they don't call it tough love for nothing.

[Rausch]

You only have 2 options:

A) Avoid a bad situation. This is family. You decide when it's worth being around or not.

B) Realize you can't change or fix this. The only good you can inject in the situation is behaving the way you believe is right/moral/justified and let the chips fall where they may.

You going to jail changes nothing and only hurts your life and family and future.

You'll be in a cage and he'll be there with your mother...

[tooge]

Quick update:

So I stick to my guns. She says she understands about my principles. Then she texts me that the BF is really hurting over this. I tell her that I don't intend to "hurt" him, but that his actions have consequences and time, therapy, and not apologies are what it will take with me. Today she basically tells me to **** off and she and the BF need time and not to call her for "a while". Wow. Sad.

Originally Posted by tooge

Quick update:

So I stick to my guns. She says she understands about my principles. Then she texts me that the BF is really hurting over this. I tell her that I don't intend to "hurt" him, but that his actions have consequences and time, therapy, and not apologies are what it will take with me. Today she basically tells me to **** off and she and the BF need time and not to call her for "a while". Wow. Sad.

Sorry bud. It's tough. But ignore the "don't call me for a while" crap. She's hurt and she wants you to hurt as much as she does. Pretty typical of a woman who isn't getting her way and I mean that with all due respect to your mother and females who may read this. There's a lot of human nature in this scenario and it takes logic and analysis to overcome it. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of logic and analysis occurring when emotions are running high. Make sure you take time to call her at least once a week despite her demands. She'll come around. I hope he legitimately gets the help he needs or gets the hook.

[memyselfI]

Originally Posted by tooge

Quick update:

So I stick to my guns. She says she understands about my principles. Then she texts me that the BF is really hurting over this. I tell her that I don't intend to "hurt" him, but that his actions have consequences and time, therapy, and not apologies are what it will take with me. Today she basically tells me to **** off and she and the BF need time and not to call her for "a while". Wow. Sad.

Tooge, sorry to hear this but boundaries have been crossed in a bad way all around here. However, your beef with the BF is sort of misplaced but understandable. Your Mother is the person making choices which make her a victim but also an abuser herself. SHE IS WELCOMING AND ALLOWING HIM IN HER HOME. She is turning your concern into a weapon against you. I am not sure if your involvement (confronting the BF vs. holding your mother accountable) in this was wise. It's one thing to be someone's confidant quite another to take matters into your own hands and start injecting yourself in the middle of your Mom's problems which you now firmly are.

Unfortunately what she has been able to accomplish with your good intentions (remember the road to hell is paved with them) and involvement is transference. From him being the bad guy to you being one. The one who will ruin her holiday. The one who doesn't understand or appreciate her. The one who hurts her due his actions and words...

All of this plays right into the hands of the abuser boyfriend. He likely thrives and survives on divide and conquer.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by tooge

Quick update:

So I stick to my guns. She says she understands about my principles. Then she texts me that the BF is really hurting over this. I tell her that I don't intend to "hurt" him, but that his actions have consequences and time, therapy, and not apologies are what it will take with me. Today she basically tells me to **** off and she and the BF need time and not to call her for "a while". Wow. Sad.

Damn.

I'd be inclided to take Phil's advice and go ahead and continue your relationship. Mad props for sticking to your guns.

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by tooge

Then she texts me that the BF is really hurting over this. I tell her that I don't intend to "hurt" him, but that his actions have consequences and time, therapy, and not apologies are what it will take with me. Today she basically tells me to **** off and she and the BF need time and not to call her for "a while". Wow. Sad.

Like I said, it will get uglier b4 it's get better because she has never had to deal with healthy boundaries especially from her own kids that now are beginning to expose her for who she really is at this point.

What I underlined in your quote is actually you being co-dependent to your mom and her attempt to manipulate your feelings using guilt. I realize you are new to all of this boundary setting and still learning to recognize the co-dependent emotional manipulation still attempted by the unrepentant enabler to the addict. But you will get much better at it as you keep setting your boundaries(sticking with your guns, as you say). You really don't give a shit about her BF's feelings nor should you. The only reason you said that was that old habit of her manipulating your feelings of feeling responsible for her feelings kicked in again. But you will get better at recognizing the manipulative games she plays.

You see the 'enabler' is the alcoholic without the alcohol if that makes sense. Her addiction is to feel responsible for her dysfunctional drunk and get you to always feel responsible for her happiness(feelings) so she can continue the addiction that tears apart your family. The sick part of co-dependency is that if her BF truly got healthy taking responsibility for himself and his own feelings and respecting boundaries of others and setting his own boundaries and she still stayed the same she would move on from him and find another drunk to satisfy her addiction of taking care of and feeling responsible for that new drunk.

Don't give in too soon either, because this is another game addicts play when the pain of reality starts to set in as the boundaries do their work(addict is no longer getting other people to clean up their messes-alone in their mud puddle of life). It usually takes a long time for true admittance of a problem and true remorse to take place.

Hang in there brother and keep loving your kids and wife as you are doing.

You are absolutely doing the right thing !

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by tooge

Quick update:

So I stick to my guns. She says she understands about my principles. Then she texts me that the BF is really hurting over this. I tell her that I don't intend to "hurt" him, but that his actions have consequences and time, therapy, and not apologies are what it will take with me. Today she basically tells me to **** off and she and the BF need time and not to call her for "a while". Wow. Sad.

I didn't read the thread, I just came in for an update and found this amongst some other things. I gave my opinion, but really tried to stay out of it because I don't have any personal experience with it, and didn't want to chime in on something I knew nothing about outside of an initial reaction as to what I would do. I'm just really sorry to hear it. Go with Phil's advice. Call her anyways.

And on a side note, I'd like to give props to Chiefshrink. That was great stuff. I've said my fair share of nasty things to you in DC, and questioned whether or not you were a real psychologist, but no doubt you are. Fantastic analysis.

[tooge]

yeah, I generally regard Phil's advice as very well thought out and sound. I am going to follow it. I will call her regularly every week or two, and I'll keep the conversation very clear of the BF. In fact it'll be very trivial talk about the kids and such. Thanks to all of you for your input. Hollidays shouldn't have to be ruined by things like this, but such is life. I'm looking at this as just another lesson life gives me that will help me to do something better next time a difficult situation arises. Happy Thanksgiving all.
Tooge, the bummed out

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by tooge

yeah, I generally regard Phil's advice as very well thought out and sound. I am going to follow it.

...

[memyselfI]

Originally Posted by tooge

yeah, I generally regard Phil's advice as very well thought out and sound. I am going to follow it. I will call her regularly every week or two, and I'll keep the conversation very clear of the BF. In fact it'll be very trivial talk about the kids and such. Thanks to all of you for your input. Hollidays shouldn't have to be ruined by things like this, but such is life. I'm looking at this as just another lesson life gives me that will help me to do something better next time a difficult situation arises. Happy Thanksgiving all.
Tooge, the bummed out

I've had this relationship with my mother for many years. I let my guard down a few years ago and tried to develop something deeper and it blew up in my face. NEVER again.

Tooge, in all honesty, I think you are focusing too much on the symbolism and tradition of the holiday at the expense of the big picture. Thanksgiving is one day on the calendar. Your mother's issues transcend that day. She is dealing with some deep shit right now. Your challenge is to develop a healthy boundary of concerned son vs. willing participant/figurative punching bag.

Lastly, get over the image of the perfect holiday. It does not happen except on the Hallmark Channel and in marketing campaigns. Holidays are generally a stressful time for fully functional families. It can be sheer hell for dysfunctional or addicted/codependent families. Lots of drama and ignored dynamics come to play in a big way at a time when we are lead to THINK everyone else is having a great time with their families. Sounds like the BF probably has had this very scenario played out in his midst before. It likely is not the first Thanksgiving he's ruined. Rather, your families first.

So do yourself a favor and adjust that image of what a successful, happy, and healthy Thanksgiving 'should be.' With that said, toxic people are not required to be around you or your children no matter what their blood type or relation to you is or what the date on the calendar says.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by memyselfI

Thanksgiving is one day on the calendar. Your mother's issues transcend that day.

Exactly what I said yesterday.

I don't think I've ever agreed with Denise almost universally in a thread in the *gasp* 15-20 years I've known her. When did she get smart?