As NRA convenes in KC

BIG_DADDY · 05-18-2001, 05:14 PM

Great article guys. Since I seem to be the only one that brings up this subject, I thought I would let someone else post this thread today but since nobody did today, here it is: [url]http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/home.pat,local/3accae95.517,.html[/url]

You guys must have some pride in having 40k NRA members meeting there in KC. I am a diehard gun rights fanatic and am intelligent enough to understand that the right to defend yourself and defend your country against tyranny is a fundamental human right each one of us has unless you are mentally ill. I am even for felons having the right to own guns after they have paid their debt to society and then proven they can be a productive member of it for say 5 years or so. Everything is a felony anymore and if they are doing the right things they should be able to defend themselves like anyone else. Out of the 30k deaths attributed to guns by the demorats only 3k are actually innocent victims of gun violence. There are also over 2.5 million successful defensive gun uses in this country every year. This combined with the citizenries right to protect the country against tyranny is overwhelmingly weighted twords gun rights. IMHO you have to be an idiot to buy into the crap the Demorats and liberal media have been selling. BTW, Yes, parents should be held accountable for their kids actions.

BIG DADDY

Hopes he isn't being too harsh. The ONLY right that is more important than the right to bear arms is the the right to free speech. Your thoughts? Anyone going?

JOhn · 05-18-2001, 06:29 PM

I'm Like most gun owners, I think. I could care less about someones agenda, weather it's the Media, Dem's or even NRA. I own my guns because I WANT TO. I use them for hunting, and because I enjoy target shooting, and yes god forbid I would ever have to, but for the defense of my family.

But finally the people who want to keep regulating MY choices have really P!SSED me off!!! For CHR!ST SAKES, I cannot even go in and by a Shotgun whith out a lenghty wait and check. I'm sorry but last time I checked, very few crimes were commited by a person buying a turkey gun and going out and shooting up a quick trip.

Yes I believe there should be checks, especially for Handguns & "assualt" type guns, ie Tech-9's ect. But Lets ENFORCE THE LAWS we have now, before we impliment more.

Rick Stephens · 05-18-2001, 07:06 PM

Big Daddy,

I wish I were in Kansas City to attend the National Rifle Association's annual meeting. I believe it is the right of an individual to keep and bear arms. We have too many politicians who are trying to take my rights from me. Slick Willie and Diane Fineswine and the Democratic Communist Party have no right to tell me which guns I can and can not own. This is the first step in disarming the citizens of our country. The other night on MSNBC there were the Demorats complaining about the 50 cal. rifle. They want this gun banned. This gun has not been used to commit the crimes that they were projecting on that show. When are the citizens of this country going to wake up.
In the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia you can only buy guns which are on the DOJ list of approved guns. It is a sad that these politicians are taking away our rights and it's as if these people don't care. They forget that if it weren't for people who liked guns and knew how to use them they may well be speaking German or Japanese today. I would like to ask Fineswine if her relatives in Germany would have gotten on those German sight seeing trains had they had some guns to fight with. I don't think so.

"Any society willing to give up a little liberty for a little security will deserve neither and will lose both."- Thomas Jefferson

BIG_DADDY · 05-19-2001, 02:00 PM

Rick

Fineswine :) is a complete hypocrite anyway. She had a handgun fall out of her purse and then tried to defend why she thought she should have them and nobody else. " I have been marshalled and can carry a concealed weapon" Of course that went over like a lead balloon since she want's to completely disarm society and has no problem saying that. So she holds a press conference to announce that she is turning in her gun and every freaking station in the bay area covers the story. 60 days later she goes and get's another gun. It makes no headlines whatsoever. I hate our media out here. The only reason I found out was through the NRA.

John,

The NRA is about the last group that cares about the second amendment. I hope you support them. I do even though I don't believe in everything they stand for. They have went to far to compromise with these damn demorats. IMHO.

Tomahawk 11 · 05-19-2001, 02:11 PM

How long is the wait on buying a shotgun these days anyway?

Rick Stephens · 05-19-2001, 02:25 PM

Tomahawk,

It depends where you live on the wait to buy a shotgun. In some states you can buy it and if they have the instant check system you can take it right then. In the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia you would have to wait ten days.

JOhn · 05-19-2001, 03:50 PM

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tomahawk 11 [/i]
[B]How long is the wait on buying a shotgun these days anyway? [/B][/QUOTE]

Missouri Is one of those states with an instant check. BUT every time I have purchased a firearm (3) in the past year, I have had to wait 3 days, then when the FBI had not gotten back to the seller, I was allowed to go ahead and purchase the gun. ( the law states that the FBI has 3 bussiness days to respond to any inquiry, IF they don't you can purchase the gun anyway. BUT if they respond after 3 days and DON'T approve you, then they can make you surrender the gun...lol right)

Now funny thing is, I have 6 long guns, 3 shotguns, and 2 handguns I have permits to carry concelled weapons, yet they still can't every seem to get it right, hence my wait.

i can understand a wait on handguns, and automatic weapons, rifles included. By shotguns and single shot weapons? Please lets enforce the laws on the books before we try and restrict my rights further.

I'm not sure of the %'s but MOST crimes are commited with ILLEGAL guns, and by people who broke existing laws, that if enforced would have preculded there owning a gun.

I do know one thing, Wyoming which allows the carrying of concelled weapons, has a lower per person violent crime and accident rate involving guns! Kinda shoots the Dem's theory's all to H*LL!

Rick Stephens · 05-19-2001, 04:49 PM

John,

It sure is funny that after Florida passed a concealed carry weapon law the murders and crimes against the tourists are now almost unheard of. The crime in Florida went way down when this law was passed. It is a proven fact that the states with a CCW have a lower crime rate than the states which do not have one.

Don't feel bad I know a guy in Kansas who is a LEO also gets a delay in the instacheck system.

Tomahawk 11 · 05-20-2001, 12:08 AM

I haven't bought a shotgun in a while, but I was gonna tell ya, just like John did that it was about 5 minutes here.

Another question: Why do you call it the People's Republic of California? I'm sure I should already know this.

47mack · 05-20-2001, 04:37 AM

There is no room for politics when it comes to the right to own a gun. Many crimes that are committed with a gun are done so with a stolen or unregistered gun. making it illegal for all citizen to own a gun will not get the guns out of the hands of criminals.

IMO, gun control is more of a waste than the war on drugs.

TCB · 05-20-2001, 07:20 AM

Big Daddy, Speaking as someone who does not own a gun you guys who do are taking the wrong avenue to debate the issue of gun control. Instead of "the right to protect your family and your country from tyranny" you need to focus on the fact that gun control will do nothing more than take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens and put them into the hands of crimminals.
I do not support any type of concealed weapons act but I do support the right of an individual to own firearms.
The bottom line is if you make guns illegal then you have created another black market where money can be made. As with illegal drugs, death and destruction will soon follow.

ken man

old_geezer · 05-20-2001, 01:33 PM

I'll admit I was against concealed carry when it was first brought up in Missouri, but after listening to both sides of the argument and looking at the stats they had to offer, I changed my mind.
Crime seems to have dropped and there are no shoot-outs on the street to report.
I also admit I have no problem with a 3-day waiting period to buy a handgun and background checks. You can still buy your gun if you're not a felon. The wait is no big deal.

Tomahawk 11 · 05-20-2001, 08:22 PM

I don't disagree with everything the NRA is doing and I don't agree with all of it either. Here I am back in my middle of the road role. They just get too extreme for me some times. I don't think anyone could succeed in disarming america. I know I wouldn't volunteer to.

The question I keep coming back to with the whole 2nd amendment right to arms is when the constitution was written they had musketts that took a while to load and even then you only got one shot. Did they ever dream of fully automatic assault rifles with high capacity magazines? They take about 30 seconds to load and 2 seconds to empty. Then you just pop the second magazine in and another 2 seconds goes by and 60 rounds are fired.

I am a gun owner (30-30 deer rifle, .40 calibre glock 22c), I just draw the line with the automatic assault weapons. They have one use, they are designed to kill PEOPLE and they are extremely efficient with little forgiveness. I mean, are we going to be debating whether or not I have the right to own a Halitser in 20 years?

I see the whole black market arguement on that too though. I realize though that if someone wants to kill me bad enough they will do it. No matter how heavily armed (concealed or not) I am. I could walk around town with my concealed .40 and my 30-30 on my back and someone could kill me with a dull soup spoon if they wanted to.

I wonder if licensing guns (kinda like cars) isn't the way to go. Just a thought. I do feel that something needs to be changed with guns. That doesn't mean that I think they should be taken away from us completely.

One more thing.... go easy on me, I like guns. :D

Rick Stephens · 05-20-2001, 09:20 PM

Tomahawk,

The last crime that I can think of that was commited with a automatic assault rifle was the Hollywood bank shootout. These were full auto which were illegal to begin with, so these guys were criminals before they ever used the guns. Most crimes are not commited with assault rifles. To own a full auto gun you must live in a state that is considered a Class #3 state. Meaning that is is legal to own a registered full auto gun. And these guns have not been used in crimes in something like 50 years. Our founding fathers had the finest rifles of their day. If there had been assault rifles in their time there is little doubt they would have had them. Now as a law abiding citizen it is my belief that it is my right to own such a rifle if that is my choice.

Just because Demorats do not like assault rifles does not mean they are the evil rifles they portray them to be. These rifles are fun to shoot and I don't know if you ever shoot in rifle matches but there are such a thing and these are the rifles that one uses in these matches. Not every one who owns one of these is the evil person the Demorats would have one believe.

Why as a former member of our armed forces should I or anyone else who has served this country have to pay for a license to own a firearm. This is one of the freedoms that the armed forces of our country fought for. The right to keep and bear arms.

In answer to your question, it is because this state is run like a dictatorship. What ever is voted in by the people is thrown out by some judge. No such thing here to change the law by voting.

Tomahawk 11 · 05-20-2001, 09:50 PM

Rick,

I see your point to an extent. I just think that a license and small waiting period is of little issue in light of Columbine and the LA Bank robbery and such.

It sounds like you have had some extensive training and have something to lose if you misuse your weapons. That isn't always true for everyone. I am just suggesting that we set up something that has some bite to it when the weapons are misused, not to take away rights/priveliges.

I had to go through training to get my weapons (with the exception of the deer rifle). I totally enjoyed my training and time on the range. I would lose everything I have worked towards in the last 8 years if I screwed up though. I think something like that would help keep people more honest. Nothing is perfect though.

05-18-2001, 05:14 PM
BIG_DADDY THE RED MENACE Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Texas Casino cash: $5038410	As NRA convenes in KC Great article guys. Since I seem to be the only one that brings up this subject, I thought I would let someone else post this thread today but since nobody did today, here it is: [url]http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/home.pat,local/3accae95.517,.html[/url] You guys must have some pride in having 40k NRA members meeting there in KC. I am a diehard gun rights fanatic and am intelligent enough to understand that the right to defend yourself and defend your country against tyranny is a fundamental human right each one of us has unless you are mentally ill. I am even for felons having the right to own guns after they have paid their debt to society and then proven they can be a productive member of it for say 5 years or so. Everything is a felony anymore and if they are doing the right things they should be able to defend themselves like anyone else. Out of the 30k deaths attributed to guns by the demorats only 3k are actually innocent victims of gun violence. There are also over 2.5 million successful defensive gun uses in this country every year. This combined with the citizenries right to protect the country against tyranny is overwhelmingly weighted twords gun rights. IMHO you have to be an idiot to buy into the crap the Demorats and liberal media have been selling. BTW, Yes, parents should be held accountable for their kids actions. BIG DADDY Hopes he isn't being too harsh. The ONLY right that is more important than the right to bear arms is the the right to free speech. Your thoughts? Anyone going?
Posts: 32,384

05-18-2001, 06:29 PM	#2
JOhn El' Barto Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Cody, WY / Tucson AZ Casino cash: $9964900	I'm Like most gun owners, I think. I could care less about someones agenda, weather it's the Media, Dem's or even NRA. I own my guns because I WANT TO. I use them for hunting, and because I enjoy target shooting, and yes god forbid I would ever have to, but for the defense of my family. But finally the people who want to keep regulating MY choices have really P!SSED me off!!! For CHR!ST SAKES, I cannot even go in and by a Shotgun whith out a lenghty wait and check. I'm sorry but last time I checked, very few crimes were commited by a person buying a turkey gun and going out and shooting up a quick trip. Yes I believe there should be checks, especially for Handguns & "assualt" type guns, ie Tech-9's ect. But Lets ENFORCE THE LAWS we have now, before we impliment more.
Posts: 25,529

05-18-2001, 07:06 PM	#3
Rick Stephens #1 Chiefs Collector Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Garden Grove, California Casino cash: $10004900	Big Daddy, I wish I were in Kansas City to attend the National Rifle Association's annual meeting. I believe it is the right of an individual to keep and bear arms. We have too many politicians who are trying to take my rights from me. Slick Willie and Diane Fineswine and the Democratic Communist Party have no right to tell me which guns I can and can not own. This is the first step in disarming the citizens of our country. The other night on MSNBC there were the Demorats complaining about the 50 cal. rifle. They want this gun banned. This gun has not been used to commit the crimes that they were projecting on that show. When are the citizens of this country going to wake up. In the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia you can only buy guns which are on the DOJ list of approved guns. It is a sad that these politicians are taking away our rights and it's as if these people don't care. They forget that if it weren't for people who liked guns and knew how to use them they may well be speaking German or Japanese today. I would like to ask Fineswine if her relatives in Germany would have gotten on those German sight seeing trains had they had some guns to fight with. I don't think so. "Any society willing to give up a little liberty for a little security will deserve neither and will lose both."- Thomas Jefferson Last edited by Rick Stephens; 05-18-2001 at 07:40 PM..
Posts: 291

05-19-2001, 02:00 PM	#4
BIG_DADDY THE RED MENACE Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Texas Casino cash: $5038410	Rick Fineswine :) is a complete hypocrite anyway. She had a handgun fall out of her purse and then tried to defend why she thought she should have them and nobody else. " I have been marshalled and can carry a concealed weapon" Of course that went over like a lead balloon since she want's to completely disarm society and has no problem saying that. So she holds a press conference to announce that she is turning in her gun and every freaking station in the bay area covers the story. 60 days later she goes and get's another gun. It makes no headlines whatsoever. I hate our media out here. The only reason I found out was through the NRA. John, The NRA is about the last group that cares about the second amendment. I hope you support them. I do even though I don't believe in everything they stand for. They have went to far to compromise with these damn demorats. IMHO. __________________ The diabolical genius of Marxism-Socialism is that it provides the emotional and intellectual road map for autocrats to persuade millions of people to support their own enslavement to government. ~Mark Levin April 15, 2019
Posts: 32,384

05-19-2001, 02:11 PM	#5
Tomahawk 11 Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: 10-20? Casino cash: $10004900	How long is the wait on buying a shotgun these days anyway? __________________ T-11. "Never mess with the bull youngman, you'll get the horns!"
Posts: 262

05-19-2001, 02:25 PM	#6
Rick Stephens #1 Chiefs Collector Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Garden Grove, California Casino cash: $10004900	Tomahawk, It depends where you live on the wait to buy a shotgun. In some states you can buy it and if they have the instant check system you can take it right then. In the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia you would have to wait ten days.
Posts: 291

05-19-2001, 03:50 PM	#7
JOhn El' Barto Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Cody, WY / Tucson AZ Casino cash: $9964900	Funny Thing [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tomahawk 11 [/i] [B]How long is the wait on buying a shotgun these days anyway? [/B][/QUOTE] Missouri Is one of those states with an instant check. BUT every time I have purchased a firearm (3) in the past year, I have had to wait 3 days, then when the FBI had not gotten back to the seller, I was allowed to go ahead and purchase the gun. ( the law states that the FBI has 3 bussiness days to respond to any inquiry, IF they don't you can purchase the gun anyway. BUT if they respond after 3 days and DON'T approve you, then they can make you surrender the gun...lol right) Now funny thing is, I have 6 long guns, 3 shotguns, and 2 handguns I have permits to carry concelled weapons, yet they still can't every seem to get it right, hence my wait. i can understand a wait on handguns, and automatic weapons, rifles included. By shotguns and single shot weapons? Please lets enforce the laws on the books before we try and restrict my rights further. I'm not sure of the %'s but MOST crimes are commited with ILLEGAL guns, and by people who broke existing laws, that if enforced would have preculded there owning a gun. I do know one thing, Wyoming which allows the carrying of concelled weapons, has a lower per person violent crime and accident rate involving guns! Kinda shoots the Dem's theory's all to H*LL!
Posts: 25,529

05-19-2001, 04:49 PM	#8
Rick Stephens #1 Chiefs Collector Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Garden Grove, California Casino cash: $10004900	John, It sure is funny that after Florida passed a concealed carry weapon law the murders and crimes against the tourists are now almost unheard of. The crime in Florida went way down when this law was passed. It is a proven fact that the states with a CCW have a lower crime rate than the states which do not have one. Don't feel bad I know a guy in Kansas who is a LEO also gets a delay in the instacheck system.
Posts: 291

05-20-2001, 12:08 AM	#9
Tomahawk 11 Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: 10-20? Casino cash: $10004900	I haven't bought a shotgun in a while, but I was gonna tell ya, just like John did that it was about 5 minutes here. Another question: Why do you call it the People's Republic of California? I'm sure I should already know this. __________________ T-11. "Never mess with the bull youngman, you'll get the horns!"
Posts: 262

05-20-2001, 04:37 AM	#10
47mack Lonestar Chief Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Sugarland, Texas (Houston) Casino cash: $10004900	There is no room for politics when it comes to the right to own a gun. Many crimes that are committed with a gun are done so with a stolen or unregistered gun. making it illegal for all citizen to own a gun will not get the guns out of the hands of criminals. IMO, gun control is more of a waste than the war on drugs. __________________ TWB "I would never do crack... I would never do a drug named after a part of my own ass, okay?" Denis Leary.
Posts: 899

05-20-2001, 07:20 AM	#11
TCB confused Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Springfild, Mo. Casino cash: $10004900	Big Daddy, Speaking as someone who does not own a gun you guys who do are taking the wrong avenue to debate the issue of gun control. Instead of "the right to protect your family and your country from tyranny" you need to focus on the fact that gun control will do nothing more than take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens and put them into the hands of crimminals. I do not support any type of concealed weapons act but I do support the right of an individual to own firearms. The bottom line is if you make guns illegal then you have created another black market where money can be made. As with illegal drugs, death and destruction will soon follow. ken man __________________ never slow down.....never grow old
Posts: 245

05-20-2001, 01:33 PM	#12
old_geezer bite me Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Windsor, Mo. Casino cash: $1444738	I'll admit I was against concealed carry when it was first brought up in Missouri, but after listening to both sides of the argument and looking at the stats they had to offer, I changed my mind. Crime seems to have dropped and there are no shoot-outs on the street to report. I also admit I have no problem with a 3-day waiting period to buy a handgun and background checks. You can still buy your gun if you're not a felon. The wait is no big deal. __________________ If you can see Chuck Norris, he can see you. If you can't see Chuck Norris you may be only seconds away from death.
Posts: 2,143

05-20-2001, 08:22 PM	#13
Tomahawk 11 Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: 10-20? Casino cash: $10004900	I don't disagree with everything the NRA is doing and I don't agree with all of it either. Here I am back in my middle of the road role. They just get too extreme for me some times. I don't think anyone could succeed in disarming america. I know I wouldn't volunteer to. The question I keep coming back to with the whole 2nd amendment right to arms is when the constitution was written they had musketts that took a while to load and even then you only got one shot. Did they ever dream of fully automatic assault rifles with high capacity magazines? They take about 30 seconds to load and 2 seconds to empty. Then you just pop the second magazine in and another 2 seconds goes by and 60 rounds are fired. I am a gun owner (30-30 deer rifle, .40 calibre glock 22c), I just draw the line with the automatic assault weapons. They have one use, they are designed to kill PEOPLE and they are extremely efficient with little forgiveness. I mean, are we going to be debating whether or not I have the right to own a Halitser in 20 years? I see the whole black market arguement on that too though. I realize though that if someone wants to kill me bad enough they will do it. No matter how heavily armed (concealed or not) I am. I could walk around town with my concealed .40 and my 30-30 on my back and someone could kill me with a dull soup spoon if they wanted to. I wonder if licensing guns (kinda like cars) isn't the way to go. Just a thought. I do feel that something needs to be changed with guns. That doesn't mean that I think they should be taken away from us completely. One more thing.... go easy on me, I like guns. :D __________________ T-11. "Never mess with the bull youngman, you'll get the horns!"
Posts: 262

05-20-2001, 09:20 PM	#14
Rick Stephens #1 Chiefs Collector Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Garden Grove, California Casino cash: $10004900	Tomahawk, The last crime that I can think of that was commited with a automatic assault rifle was the Hollywood bank shootout. These were full auto which were illegal to begin with, so these guys were criminals before they ever used the guns. Most crimes are not commited with assault rifles. To own a full auto gun you must live in a state that is considered a Class #3 state. Meaning that is is legal to own a registered full auto gun. And these guns have not been used in crimes in something like 50 years. Our founding fathers had the finest rifles of their day. If there had been assault rifles in their time there is little doubt they would have had them. Now as a law abiding citizen it is my belief that it is my right to own such a rifle if that is my choice. Just because Demorats do not like assault rifles does not mean they are the evil rifles they portray them to be. These rifles are fun to shoot and I don't know if you ever shoot in rifle matches but there are such a thing and these are the rifles that one uses in these matches. Not every one who owns one of these is the evil person the Demorats would have one believe. Why as a former member of our armed forces should I or anyone else who has served this country have to pay for a license to own a firearm. This is one of the freedoms that the armed forces of our country fought for. The right to keep and bear arms. In answer to your question, it is because this state is run like a dictatorship. What ever is voted in by the people is thrown out by some judge. No such thing here to change the law by voting.
Posts: 291

05-20-2001, 09:50 PM	#15
Tomahawk 11 Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: 10-20? Casino cash: $10004900	Rick, I see your point to an extent. I just think that a license and small waiting period is of little issue in light of Columbine and the LA Bank robbery and such. It sounds like you have had some extensive training and have something to lose if you misuse your weapons. That isn't always true for everyone. I am just suggesting that we set up something that has some bite to it when the weapons are misused, not to take away rights/priveliges. I had to go through training to get my weapons (with the exception of the deer rifle). I totally enjoyed my training and time on the range. I would lose everything I have worked towards in the last 8 years if I screwed up though. I think something like that would help keep people more honest. Nothing is perfect though. __________________ T-11. "Never mess with the bull youngman, you'll get the horns!"
Posts: 262