Conley runs with 1st with Wilson hurt

[Mother****erJones]

Chris Conley - WR - Chiefs
Chiefs third-round WR Chris Conley ran with the starting offense at Monday's practice.
With Albert Wilson (shoulder) hurt, Conley is getting his chance to run opposite Jeremy Maclin. Before Wilson even got hurt last week, he was having a really quiet camp and preseason while Conley caught 3-of-5 targets for 30 yards in his first action of the preseason over the weekend. Wilson has speed, but isn't very big. Conley (6'3/205) was a draftnik favorite as a metrics freak with 4.35 wheels, 45-inch vertical, and 11-foot-7 broad jump. He's in the mix for No. 2 duties.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Yeah but Baldwin didn't fail because of his athleticism, he failed because he was mentally weak and didn't want it.

By all accounts, that separates him from Baldwin, making any comparison moot.

I don't agree with you there.

He ran in water when he was making his cuts. He could 'want it' all day and it wouldn't have changed the fact that he turned like the Titanic.

And yes, physically, he had many of the same red flags that Conley has. He could jump out of the gym and run fast in a straight line but he got beat up pretty badly in the agility drills. The guy's hips were just so stiff that he had to come to a near complete stop to make a cut and then get everything up and running again. By then, any DB in the NFL would have driven on the route and he's covered.

It's a real concern that Conley will have to improve on or they'll have to scheme around it. He can do some things to compensate for it, but I'd be shocked if he's every a lithe athlete out there who's running crisp, precise routes. His feet just aren't quick enough for it.

[BigChiefFan]

Wilson shouldn't be cemented as the number two. He has a lot of potential, but I don't consider 16 catches last year as a justification of having the number two locked up.

[notorious]

Baldwin was horrifically slow off the snap and on his cuts, and I said as much the day he was drafted.

Conley will be successful if he has a nose for finding the soft areas in the zone, and if our QB is willing to throw the ball up for him to grab during man coverage.


He is a little similar to Bowe, only Conley catches with his fingers and hands instead of his chest.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It's a real concern that Conley will have to improve on or they'll have to scheme around it. He can do some things to compensate for it, but I'd be shocked if he's every a lithe athlete out there who's running crisp, precise routes. His feet just aren't quick enough for it.

Huh. What I saw in training camp video showed a very smooth route runner.

If what your saying is true, the Chiefs made a blunder in trading up for him, especially considering the WCO is predicated on precise route running.

[Mav]

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

Wilson shouldn't be cemented as the number two. He has a lot of potential, but I don't consider 16 catches last year as a justification of having the number two locked up.

Bruh.... Back up.

[ModSocks]

Originally Posted by notorious

Baldwin was horrifically slow off the snap and on his cuts, and I said as much the day he was drafted.

Conley will be successful if he has a nose for finding the soft areas in the zone, and if our QB is willing to throw the ball up for him to grab during man coverage.


He is a little similar to Bowe, only Conley catches with his fingers and hands instead of his chest.

The first time i noticed it was in a fan captured video of Bowe and Baldwin doing some sort of cone drill in TC. Bowe looked smooth and quick compared to Baldwin who was slow and lumbering. Baldwin was making Bowe look like Maclin out there....which was alarming.

[RunKC]

It makes me sad that we took Baldwin over Cobb that year

[ModSocks]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

If what your saying is true, the Chiefs made a blunder in trading up for him, especially considering the WCO is predicated on precise route running.

The Chiefs needed a guy who can take the top off the D. Conley fits that description. He's the only guy with legit size on the roster and he has the straight line speed to go with it. Despite what i feel are his physical limitations, i still think he has enough tools to make an impact on this team.

He seems to have everything you'd want an NFL receiver aside from that suddenness. I was hoping he had an AJ Green like tool kit....i was wrong.

I still think he can be a quality #2 though. Just not a #1.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Huh. What I saw in training camp video showed a very smooth route runner.

If what your saying is true, the Chiefs made a blunder in trading up for him, especially considering the WCO is predicated on precise route running.

Smooth and explosive aren't exactly the same thing.

With his long strides, he can run a post or flag/fade route with anybody because it doesn't require a hard stop before the change of direction (though you'd still like the DB to have a more conscious threat of the hard stop in the back of their minds so you can put in a hip shimmy or something to get them off balance).

So he can run a post and look plenty smooth doing it. But if you're looking for a double move or quick hitch, he's simply not going to do that as well as many.

And even he never really becomes superb at that, he can still be a valuable weapon here. You're right that the WCO is predicated on precise routes...but not all of them. Every route isn't a hitch and go. Every route isn't a smash. You can scheme around weaknesses in the system especially when you have guys like Kelce that can force defenses to shade (and create space elsewhere). A guy like Wilson would help as well. He can be a valuable X in this system, presuming he's able to get the hand-fighting down and get off press coverage since the X is pretty much always on the line in Reid's offense.

It wasn't a mistake to trade up to get him just because he won't be Calvin Johnson (which is what he'd be if you gave a guy with his size/speed the same footwork as Amari Cooper). He can be Chris Chambers. He can be a bigger version of what Maclin was before Maclin got hurt (when he was running simpler routes as the X and was relying on speed rather than smarts). He can be very good here.

But don't oversell him. There are flaws in his game, some of which are probably not completely correctable but rather will need to be schemed around.

[jonzie04]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Quickness isn't just about your 3-cone time (though it's demonstrative).

Quickness comes in large part with simple foot-fire drills and things like that. You're right that open is largely a product of route running and misdirection, but again, if you're a long-strider, those are both harder things to do.

Cooper is the best recent example of a guy that simply uses technique and precision to make space - Conley can't do what Cooper does. It isn't necessarily because Cooper is faster over 10 yards than Conley (I'm not certain that he is), but it's because Cooper has lightening fast feet and fluid hips that allow him to make those quick moves that will fool a CB. They allow him to plant a foot and make a cut without losing speed. The allow him to shuffle into a break and make a dead stop before the DB has any idea what just hit him (that play with Cooper vs. Patrick Peterson last week was a perfect example).

Conley doesn't have those feet and he won't get them. Rice had them - you're selling his athleticism way WAY short. Most of the great WRs in the league have them.

You don't need them to be good, though. It's just that without them, you're limited in the kind of WR you can be. Conley isn't going to be challenging Maclin for the Z spot at any point because he's just not going to be a guy that can be the technician that Maclin is. It's not because he's not smart enough or fast enough; he's just not fluid enough and his feet don't quite fire fast enough.

It's not the end of the world. The guy can still be a damn good football player.

I agree with you that a guy like Cooper has much quicker foot speed than Conley. Cooper is lightning quick, and with him being so quick, route running isn't nearly as important as it will be for Chris, simply because he can get in and out of breaks so fast the DB can't keep up. I also agree with you that that foot speed and quickness can help guys get open, but not having elite quickness doesn't eliminate a guy from being able to become a #1 receiver. Conley is going to have to work harder than the guys like Odell, and Cooper, but he can still be a #1 receiver.

Despite Conleys lack of suddenness he still has a whole heap of tools he can depend on. For starters he has the most lethal tool a WR can have and that is deep speed. If Conley can learn how properly stem his routes and can get the DBs hips turned he is more than quick enough to take advantage of it. And with his deep speed, if he can learn how to sell a deep route, then that will be an effective tool for him. If he gets up on a DBs hip they will turn their hips because they know he will run right by them if the dont. He also has the size and strength to out muscle smaller defenders, and the height and length to out jump most defenders (though we haven't seen any of that yet).

But everyone here seems to place way too much of an emphasis on getting open and quick hips etc.. And that is because of Dewayne Bowe and Alex Smiths lack of success together. Getting heaps of separation isn't necessary for being a great receiver, or even a #1 receiver.


And on the Jerry Rice thing, I didn't mean to undersell him. He was quick, much quicker than Conley. But the point I was getting at was that he's the best receiver to ever live, but he isn't even close to being one of the quickest. Hes not as quick as guys like Antonio Brown, Odell, Cooper, Welker a few years ago, Amendola, Harvin, Dez etc. But yet none of those guys are in greatest of all time discussion. So quickness isn't the end all be all.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

The Chiefs needed a guy who can take the top off the D. Conley fits that description. He's the only guy with legit size on the roster and he has the straight line speed to go with it. Despite what i feel are his physical limitations, i still think he has enough tools to make an impact on this team.

He seems to have everything you'd want an NFL receiver aside from that suddenness. I was hoping he had an AJ Green like tool kit....i was wrong.

I still think he can be a quality #2 though. Just not a #1.

If you were hoping for a green here, I think him not hitting that level is on you and your expectations. He was still a 3rd rounder for a reason

[DaneMcCloud]

I thought Wilson and DAT were the guys to take the top off defenses?

Maclin, too.

I expect Conley to be a decent route runner and solid #2 at some point but I would be surprised if that happens this year due to so much missed time.

[jonzie04]

Originally Posted by O.city

If you were hoping for a green here, I think him not hitting that level is on you and your expectations. He was still a 3rd rounder for a reason

He said an AJ Green like tool kit... Meaning a guy with Aj's athleticism. Not a receiver as polished as AJ Green, ready to step in and be the #1 WR right away.