I think it's a combination of things...

Chris Meck · 10-08-2007, 12:58 PM

This was a perfect storm. Jacksonville's entire gameplan offensively and defensively was EXACTLY the way to beat KC.

I think there are three main problems with our offense-

1)Square pegs in round holes. We're running maul-ball with linemen that were developed for speed and quickness. Wiegmann just gets swallowed at the line. His game was pulling out, getting in space. As a straight ahead blocker, he's just too small. Welbourne's not showing anything either, and while MacIntosh and Terry are adequate pass blockers, they're not road graders. These guys do NOT fit a straight ahead blocking scheme. To run the ball with these linemen, we're going to have to trap and draw. And we will not be able to do it against stacked fronts.

2)Nobody respects Huard. He locks onto a receiver at the snap, and in the first half of every game, it's immediately the checkdown guy. Guys are frequently open downfield, but Huard will dump it off instead. He doesn't have much pocket awareness, he gets happy feet, and won't wait for a play to develop. He doesn't go through his reads, and he doesn't make good decisions with the ball. He makes 'safe' decisions until we're in a hole, and then he gets desperate. He doesn't have the arm or mentality to be anything other than a caretaker. Croyle is going to make some mistakes, but will make some plays downfield as well. His arm and desire to throw downfield will make those safeties respect the pass. I'll take some INT's if some TD's come with them. The 3 and outs are killing us.

3)The Playcalling. Hey, it was better this game, actually. Play action works. But you have to go downfield. If they're going to stack the box, then throw it until they stop. JAX knew that what we really wanted to do was run the ball. They just waited. We're going to have to just throw all over those 8 and 9 man fronts until people stop playing us that way. We're going to have to pass to open up the run. I think Brodie gives us the best chance to do that.

FringeNC · 10-08-2007, 01:01 PM

Pretty much agree with the assessment, but doesn't #1 strongly suggest an incompetent head coach?

Chris Meck · 10-08-2007, 01:14 PM

Certainly an overly stubborn one.

Hammock Parties · 10-08-2007, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Play action works. But you have to go downfield. If they're going to stack the box, then throw it until they stop.

That's what we did. We came out throwing play action passes and going down the field. The first play of the game was a 30-yard completion. Huard wasn't checking down whatsoever. What game did you watch?

BigRock · 10-08-2007, 01:24 PM

Wiegmann was good in space, but that doesn't mean it's all that was requred of him. Some people act like he pulled on every single running play the Chiefs ever ran while Vermeil was here. No, he didn't.

He's a center. Centers have to get off the ball and push people back every now and then. He's either unaware of this strategy or he's no longer capable of it. I hope it's the former and someone finally tells him, but somehow I doubt that's it.

Chris Meck · 10-08-2007, 01:30 PM

Goatse, that drive only, and you can watch him drop back, stare his receiver down, and throw it there regardless of coverage. He does NOT go through his progressions. My point is, I think Huard has decided before the snap who he's going to throw to, and it's usually the checkdown receiver.

Hammock Parties · 10-08-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Goatse, that drive only.

Again, it sounds like you didn't watch the game. We came back on the second drive and continued throwing downfield.

StcChief · 10-08-2007, 01:52 PM

#1) can't fix all our problems at once. OLine have to design plays that fit them. Draws etc.

#2) Croyle gets his chance

#3) Solari (see #1)

Rick · 10-08-2007, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOATSE

Again, it sounds like you didn't watch the game. We came back on the second drive and continued throwing downfield.

I agree w/ya Chris... I don't call down field Chris Wilson for 3. I know I watched the game and I saw Tony G. down the field, who else Goatse?? Not Bowe in 1st half, sure wasn't Kennison.

**the Talking Can** · 10-08-2007, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

2)Nobody respects Huard. He locks onto a receiver at the snap, and in the first half of every game, it's immediately the checkdown guy. Guys are frequently open downfield, but Huard will dump it off instead. He doesn't have much pocket awareness, he gets happy feet, and won't wait for a play to develop. He doesn't go through his reads, and he doesn't make good decisions with the ball. He makes 'safe' decisions until we're in a hole, and then he gets desperate. He doesn't have the arm or mentality to be anything other than a caretaker.

how dare you say that with True Fans around...you'll make them cry

**the Talking Can** · 10-08-2007, 01:58 PM

We missed a TD because Huard checked down instead of throwing to a wide open Gonzo in the end zone.

They even discussed it during the game. And don't tell Dwayne Bowe that Huard isn't checking down instead of getting him the damn ball.

Bowe had to go get in Herm's ear to get a pass from Huard.

Stop making excuses for a veteran QB.

Hammock Parties · 10-08-2007, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I know I watched the game and I saw Tony G. down the field, who else Goatse??

Kris Wilson caught a 30-yard pass on the first play. They threw one down the field to Kennison on the first possession. I don't know why they "ignored" Bowe, but don't you think it's entirely possible he was covered?

Anyway, there was little "checking down." We threw it down the field, just as we did last week, and just as we did in the second half against the Vikings. And this is what we did last year when Huard was 6th in the league in yards per attempt.

Hog's Gone Fishin · 10-08-2007, 02:10 PM

Yep he's right on Goatse, after the first drive you could see Huard act nervous just like he's done in every other game. He knows where he's gonna throw the ball when the huddle breaks and if that receiver is not open then he panicks. I like Huard but I'm ready to move on. Brodie is next Joe Montana anyways, cause they said it on TV.

Zouk · 10-08-2007, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOATSE

Kris Wilson caught a 30-yard pass on the first play. They threw one down the field to Kennison on the first possession. I don't know why they "ignored" Bowe, but don't you think it's entirely possible he was covered?

Anyway, there was little "checking down." We threw it down the field, just as we did last week, and just as we did in the second half against the Vikings. And this is what we did last year when Huard was 6th in the league in yards per attempt.

Rashean Mathis is a top 5 corner. I continue to believe the biggest need on the whole team is for a receiver to put opposite Bowe who can get consistent separation and make big plays. We're too easy to defend without that. It would be even better if the guy could return kicks a la Santana Moss or Randle El.

But no matter what happens in the game, losses are always because the playcalling is too conservative. Always. And this is not just in KC - this is everywhere. According to fans, 90% of all coordinators in the NFL are too conservative. Why do these coaches spend an entire lifetime breaking down film and game planning? They should just read message boards and know that the answer is always to install the run n shoot.

Jilly · 10-08-2007, 02:35 PM

And one more thing as I've said before...

4) Get some creativity and make something happen. Find some energy and go with it....feed off of d bowe

10-08-2007, 12:58 PM
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $1954910	I think it's a combination of things... This was a perfect storm. Jacksonville's entire gameplan offensively and defensively was EXACTLY the way to beat KC. I think there are three main problems with our offense- 1)Square pegs in round holes. We're running maul-ball with linemen that were developed for speed and quickness. Wiegmann just gets swallowed at the line. His game was pulling out, getting in space. As a straight ahead blocker, he's just too small. Welbourne's not showing anything either, and while MacIntosh and Terry are adequate pass blockers, they're not road graders. These guys do NOT fit a straight ahead blocking scheme. To run the ball with these linemen, we're going to have to trap and draw. And we will not be able to do it against stacked fronts. 2)Nobody respects Huard. He locks onto a receiver at the snap, and in the first half of every game, it's immediately the checkdown guy. Guys are frequently open downfield, but Huard will dump it off instead. He doesn't have much pocket awareness, he gets happy feet, and won't wait for a play to develop. He doesn't go through his reads, and he doesn't make good decisions with the ball. He makes 'safe' decisions until we're in a hole, and then he gets desperate. He doesn't have the arm or mentality to be anything other than a caretaker. Croyle is going to make some mistakes, but will make some plays downfield as well. His arm and desire to throw downfield will make those safeties respect the pass. I'll take some INT's if some TD's come with them. The 3 and outs are killing us. 3)The Playcalling. Hey, it was better this game, actually. Play action works. But you have to go downfield. If they're going to stack the box, then throw it until they stop. JAX knew that what we really wanted to do was run the ball. They just waited. We're going to have to just throw all over those 8 and 9 man fronts until people stop playing us that way. We're going to have to pass to open up the run. I think Brodie gives us the best chance to do that.
Posts: 17,498

10-08-2007, 01:24 PM	#5
BigRock Pritay Pritay Pritay Good Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The State of Euphoria Casino cash: $3445412	Wiegmann was good in space, but that doesn't mean it's all that was requred of him. Some people act like he pulled on every single running play the Chiefs ever ran while Vermeil was here. No, he didn't. He's a center. Centers have to get off the ball and push people back every now and then. He's either unaware of this strategy or he's no longer capable of it. I hope it's the former and someone finally tells him, but somehow I doubt that's it.
Posts: 6,775

10-08-2007, 01:30 PM	#6
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $1954910	Goatse, that drive only, and you can watch him drop back, stare his receiver down, and throw it there regardless of coverage. He does NOT go through his progressions. My point is, I think Huard has decided before the snap who he's going to throw to, and it's usually the checkdown receiver.
Posts: 17,498

10-08-2007, 01:52 PM	#8
StcChief Playing for #1 Draft Pick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Just West of Lambs land Casino cash: $10004900	#1) can't fix all our problems at once. OLine have to design plays that fit them. Draws etc. #2) Croyle gets his chance #3) Solari (see #1)
Posts: 25,901

10-08-2007, 01:58 PM	#11
the Talking Can Supporter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: street Casino cash: $10022208	We missed a TD because Huard checked down instead of throwing to a wide open Gonzo in the end zone. They even discussed it during the game. And don't tell Dwayne Bowe that Huard isn't checking down instead of getting him the damn ball. Bowe had to go get in Herm's ear to get a pass from Huard. Stop making excuses for a veteran QB. __________________ Clark Hunt: "Thank god for the Dominican pool boy"
Posts: 51,585

10-08-2007, 01:01 PM	#2
FringeNC MVP Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NC Casino cash: $1816014	Pretty much agree with the assessment, but doesn't #1 strongly suggest an incompetent head coach?
Posts: 10,171

10-08-2007, 01:14 PM	#3
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $1954910	Certainly an overly stubborn one.
Posts: 17,498

10-08-2007, 02:10 PM	#13
Hog's Gone Fishin Fish are scared of me Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $1720477	Yep he's right on Goatse, after the first drive you could see Huard act nervous just like he's done in every other game. He knows where he's gonna throw the ball when the huddle breaks and if that receiver is not open then he panicks. I like Huard but I'm ready to move on. Brodie is next Joe Montana anyways, cause they said it on TV.
Posts: 40,340

10-08-2007, 02:35 PM	#15
Jilly MVP Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lee's Summit Casino cash: $10004925	And one more thing as I've said before... 4) Get some creativity and make something happen. Find some energy and go with it....feed off of d bowe __________________ "In most of our human relationships, we spend much of our time reassuring one another that our costumes of identity are on straight." — Ram Dass
Posts: 8,461