why all the fuss about Broderick Bunkley?

KCfanfromNC · 03-24-2006, 06:19 PM

In my opinion, i don't understand why everyone is so high on drafting Broderick Bunkley. Alright, i understand that he is a monster with great athletic talents, blah blah blah. What everyone needs to understand is, is that Herm Edwards is a defensive guy and is undoubtedly going to have input into the defense. Herm has always ran the Tampa 2 defense, and now with him here, i see us drafting to mold that style of defense, which is fast linebackers, big physical corners and run stopping safties. The biggest thing in the Tampa 2 is pressure on the QB and pressure doesn't come from the interior line in this defense. it comes from the edge rushers and linebackers. DT's in this defense are mainly massive human beings, around 310-350 that just sit and take up the A gaps for run purposes and hold up lineman for blitz packages. All that being said, i dont think we need to spend a 1st rounder on a DT because all they have to do is be huge and take up 1 gap. There are fat DT's all over the NFL that can get the job done in that defense for a heck of a lot less than a 1st rounder. Gabe Watson would be much more suited, hopefully we can get him in the 2nd round. Anyways, thats my shpiel.

HolmeZz · 03-24-2006, 06:21 PM

On the contrary, I think. In the Tampa 2, you don't need big space eaters at DT. Tackles that can get into the opposing backfield are more desired. Just look at the Bucs in past years.

Rudy tossed tigger's salad · 03-24-2006, 06:24 PM

don't forget Herm traded up to get Dwayne Robertson who was supposed to be a pass rushing DT

KCfanfromNC · 03-24-2006, 06:25 PM

holmezz, you're thinking of warren sapp, who was just a freak who could eat space and get in the backfield, there hasn't been too many warren sapps in the league. but the space eaters do more than just sit and take up a gap, they also keep the gaurds from getting to the next level and that allows our fast LB's to run free and make a lot of tackles

HolmeZz · 03-24-2006, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCfanfromNC

holmezz, you're thinking of warren sapp, who was just a freak who could eat space and get in the backfield, there hasn't been too many warren sapps in the league. but the space eaters do more than just sit and take up a gap, they also keep the gaurds from getting to the next level and that allows our fast LB's to run free and make a lot of tackles

No, I'm thinking of Booger McFarland too. The whole idea of the Tampa 2 is playing fast on D. The Bucs never used big DTs. Even with that, have you seen Bunkley lately? He's about 300 lbs. now. He's good enough to play in any system.

You can look at what Indy's doing too. They don't use big DTs.

KCfanfromNC · 03-24-2006, 06:26 PM

don't get me wrong, if we draft Broderick Bunkley, im not going to throw the remote through the T.V., i like Broderick Bunkley, i just think we could use our 1st round on positions that could make more of an immediate impact

KCfanfromNC · 03-24-2006, 07:00 PM

i said that i like bunkley and id be happy if we got him, what i was saying is that we can be succesful in the Tampa 2 with the DTs we have.......i just would rather us use that pick on other guys, such as cromartie, who is a prototypical cover 2 corner with his size and strength, a pass rushing DE, like kiwi, or i wouldnt mind seeing us get ernie sims or manny lawson if he fell to us, watching kendrell bell last year was painful and with ernie/lawson and DJ, we'd have one of the fastest LB corps in the league

JBucc · 03-24-2006, 07:00 PM

Drafting Bunkley would be a terrific pick. I don't care what defense you run big athletic DT's are good.

KCfanfromNC · 03-24-2006, 07:02 PM

and i get what you're sayin holmezz about the fast DT's, but i played LB in college and i loved having big, massive DT's in front of me, because i would never get touched and i could make tackles all over the field, cause once you let those fat OL to the second level and get their hands on the LB's its all over, but maybe im just bias cause its my own preference

HolmeZz · 03-24-2006, 07:17 PM

That's great, but you brought up the cover 2 scheme. You need good cover-backers if you're going to run that, so big DTs opening holes isn't as meaningful in the cover 2. The Tampa 2 needs DTs who play quick and can make plays in the backfield. It's as simple as that.

As for our current roster, they couldn't play a cover 2. Our line never gets any pressure, with the exception of Allen a few times a game. Our DTs don't make plays. Bunkley would be good for us, he just won't fall that far as it stands right now.

KCfanfromNC · 03-24-2006, 07:27 PM

[QUOTE=HolmeZz]That's great, but you brought up the cover 2 scheme. You need good cover-backers if you're going to run that, so big DTs opening holes isn't as meaningful in the cover 2. The Tampa 2 needs DTs who play quick and can make plays in the backfield. It's as simple as that.

you need good cover-backers to run cover 2? well i guess i dont know anything about football then, i thought it was the complete opposite...........just because some teams are successful with fast, smaller DT's, doesn't mean that thats what the Tampa 2 is designed for, and yes, tampa 2 is about playing fast, but so is every other defensive scheme there is, theres not defensive scheme that promotes being slow. i guess all those years of actually playing in the tampa 2 just went over my head, thanks for the lesson

HolmeZz · 03-24-2006, 07:30 PM

The Tampa 2 usually has a fast, sometimes small, defensive line. The corners need to be versatile in regards to zone and man-to-man coverage. The LBs need to be fluent in coverage. The safeties need to be fast and good in coverage. They're used to make up for nooks in the defense that the corners can't get to. A lot of teams attack the Cover 2 by throwing out slants because that's the toughest playcall for the safeties to get out and cover.

KCfanfromNC · 03-24-2006, 07:37 PM

throwing out slants? do you even know what cover 2 is? yeah, there is a soft spot in between the corner and the saftey but it would take one hell of a throw and excellent timing to fit it in there, the hardest route in the cover 2 for a safety is a seam route down the middle of the field, because the middle of the field is the weakness in cover 2.......tampa 2 is just a variation of basic cover 2, because it sends the middle linebacker running the deep pipe down the middle of the field which changes the weakness to the checkdown route in between the 2 OLB's

HolmeZz · 03-24-2006, 07:40 PM

No, the middle of the field is supposed to be covered by your backers.

Have you ever seen Derrick Brooks play? That's the objective of the LB in the cover 2 scheme.

milkman · 03-24-2006, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HolmeZz

No, the middle of the field is supposed to be covered by your backers.

Have you ever seen Derrick Brooks play? That's the objective of the LB in the cover 2 scheme.

Com'on HolmeZz, why are you debating with this guy.

I mean, every team in the league playing cover 2 is trying to emulate the Bucs, which uses quicker DTs, and good coverage LBs.

But this guy played LB in college, and certainly has to know what he's talking about, and the NFL teams are clueless.

03-24-2006, 06:19 PM	Topic Starter
KCfanfromNC Starter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Raleigh, NC Casino cash: $10004900	why all the fuss about Broderick Bunkley? In my opinion, i don't understand why everyone is so high on drafting Broderick Bunkley. Alright, i understand that he is a monster with great athletic talents, blah blah blah. What everyone needs to understand is, is that Herm Edwards is a defensive guy and is undoubtedly going to have input into the defense. Herm has always ran the Tampa 2 defense, and now with him here, i see us drafting to mold that style of defense, which is fast linebackers, big physical corners and run stopping safties. The biggest thing in the Tampa 2 is pressure on the QB and pressure doesn't come from the interior line in this defense. it comes from the edge rushers and linebackers. DT's in this defense are mainly massive human beings, around 310-350 that just sit and take up the A gaps for run purposes and hold up lineman for blitz packages. All that being said, i dont think we need to spend a 1st rounder on a DT because all they have to do is be huge and take up 1 gap. There are fat DT's all over the NFL that can get the job done in that defense for a heck of a lot less than a 1st rounder. Gabe Watson would be much more suited, hopefully we can get him in the 2nd round. Anyways, thats my shpiel.
Posts: 134

03-24-2006, 06:21 PM	#2
HolmeZz i guess its bittersweet poetry Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NeW HaVeN, CT Casino cash: $10004900	On the contrary, I think. In the Tampa 2, you don't need big space eaters at DT. Tackles that can get into the opposing backfield are more desired. Just look at the Bucs in past years.
Posts: 16,520

03-24-2006, 06:24 PM	#3
Rudy tossed tigger's salad Better than Nelson Join Date: Mar 2003 Casino cash: $10000400	don't forget Herm traded up to get Dwayne Robertson who was supposed to be a pass rushing DT
Posts: 17,356

03-24-2006, 06:25 PM	#4
KCfanfromNC Starter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Raleigh, NC Casino cash: $10004900	holmezz, you're thinking of warren sapp, who was just a freak who could eat space and get in the backfield, there hasn't been too many warren sapps in the league. but the space eaters do more than just sit and take up a gap, they also keep the gaurds from getting to the next level and that allows our fast LB's to run free and make a lot of tackles
Posts: 134

03-24-2006, 06:26 PM	#6
KCfanfromNC Starter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Raleigh, NC Casino cash: $10004900	don't get me wrong, if we draft Broderick Bunkley, im not going to throw the remote through the T.V., i like Broderick Bunkley, i just think we could use our 1st round on positions that could make more of an immediate impact
Posts: 134

03-24-2006, 07:00 PM	#7
KCfanfromNC Starter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Raleigh, NC Casino cash: $10004900	i said that i like bunkley and id be happy if we got him, what i was saying is that we can be succesful in the Tampa 2 with the DTs we have.......i just would rather us use that pick on other guys, such as cromartie, who is a prototypical cover 2 corner with his size and strength, a pass rushing DE, like kiwi, or i wouldnt mind seeing us get ernie sims or manny lawson if he fell to us, watching kendrell bell last year was painful and with ernie/lawson and DJ, we'd have one of the fastest LB corps in the league
Posts: 134

03-24-2006, 07:00 PM	#8
JBucc MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Casino cash: $10004952	Drafting Bunkley would be a terrific pick. I don't care what defense you run big athletic DT's are good.
Posts: 12,016

03-24-2006, 07:02 PM	#9
KCfanfromNC Starter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Raleigh, NC Casino cash: $10004900	and i get what you're sayin holmezz about the fast DT's, but i played LB in college and i loved having big, massive DT's in front of me, because i would never get touched and i could make tackles all over the field, cause once you let those fat OL to the second level and get their hands on the LB's its all over, but maybe im just bias cause its my own preference
Posts: 134

03-24-2006, 07:17 PM	#10
HolmeZz i guess its bittersweet poetry Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NeW HaVeN, CT Casino cash: $10004900	That's great, but you brought up the cover 2 scheme. You need good cover-backers if you're going to run that, so big DTs opening holes isn't as meaningful in the cover 2. The Tampa 2 needs DTs who play quick and can make plays in the backfield. It's as simple as that. As for our current roster, they couldn't play a cover 2. Our line never gets any pressure, with the exception of Allen a few times a game. Our DTs don't make plays. Bunkley would be good for us, he just won't fall that far as it stands right now.
Posts: 16,520

03-24-2006, 07:27 PM	#11
KCfanfromNC Starter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Raleigh, NC Casino cash: $10004900	[QUOTE=HolmeZz]That's great, but you brought up the cover 2 scheme. You need good cover-backers if you're going to run that, so big DTs opening holes isn't as meaningful in the cover 2. The Tampa 2 needs DTs who play quick and can make plays in the backfield. It's as simple as that. you need good cover-backers to run cover 2? well i guess i dont know anything about football then, i thought it was the complete opposite...........just because some teams are successful with fast, smaller DT's, doesn't mean that thats what the Tampa 2 is designed for, and yes, tampa 2 is about playing fast, but so is every other defensive scheme there is, theres not defensive scheme that promotes being slow. i guess all those years of actually playing in the tampa 2 just went over my head, thanks for the lesson
Posts: 134

03-24-2006, 07:30 PM	#12
HolmeZz i guess its bittersweet poetry Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NeW HaVeN, CT Casino cash: $10004900	The Tampa 2 usually has a fast, sometimes small, defensive line. The corners need to be versatile in regards to zone and man-to-man coverage. The LBs need to be fluent in coverage. The safeties need to be fast and good in coverage. They're used to make up for nooks in the defense that the corners can't get to. A lot of teams attack the Cover 2 by throwing out slants because that's the toughest playcall for the safeties to get out and cover.
Posts: 16,520

03-24-2006, 07:37 PM	#13
KCfanfromNC Starter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Raleigh, NC Casino cash: $10004900	throwing out slants? do you even know what cover 2 is? yeah, there is a soft spot in between the corner and the saftey but it would take one hell of a throw and excellent timing to fit it in there, the hardest route in the cover 2 for a safety is a seam route down the middle of the field, because the middle of the field is the weakness in cover 2.......tampa 2 is just a variation of basic cover 2, because it sends the middle linebacker running the deep pipe down the middle of the field which changes the weakness to the checkdown route in between the 2 OLB's
Posts: 134

03-24-2006, 07:40 PM	#14
HolmeZz i guess its bittersweet poetry Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NeW HaVeN, CT Casino cash: $10004900	No, the middle of the field is supposed to be covered by your backers. Have you ever seen Derrick Brooks play? That's the objective of the LB in the cover 2 scheme.
Posts: 16,520