The Official "Lost" the series discussion

[Deberg_1990]

I figured I would start a thread for this and see what happens....there seemed to be quite a few viewers on the board for this show the past few weeks.....I like the direction the show is taking so far......episode 3 tonight at 7 central on ABC....

[KingPriest2]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Why weren't there signs of Egyptian influence when Jacob and MIB were growing up?

They ust didnt show them

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by KingPriest2

They ust didnt show them

Meh. When MIB was talking to Jacob he talked about walking the entire island many times and never seeing the cave with light. The least they could have done is have him say - I found temples and other things, but never the light.


In any event, apparently they had a screening of the next episode last night in LA. Descriptions of the entire episode are all over the place. If you lurk elsewhere be careful if you don't want to be spoiled.

[mcan]

1. About the "light" in all men: its a suedo science fiction way to marry good and evil and philosophy and personality and electro magnatism together. Its not supposed to be a realistic theory about the origin or nature of man. The premise of the show when they started was very likely something like this:

"Hey, what if we had a show where there was this island... on the island will be the source of all human goodness and evil, like the soul of all mankind. The cradle of life. Its the fountain of youth and the garden of eden all rolled into one. It heals and kills and judges and is and forgives. All philosophy and hopes and dreams and fears and love and hate that resides in all of us can be traced back to this one spot. One person, or "god" if you will, is entrusted to protect the light from being put out or abused by ambitious men.

The catch is, nobody really knows how it all started. it just keeps cycling. After awhile, the "god" title gets shared by twins who have two different ideas about the nature of men. One believes in the free will and ultimate goodness of mankind that will eventually bring about a presumably "happy" ending to the cycles. The other believes that men are ultimately ruled by their darknesses and weaknesses, and the cycle is fated to continue forever.

They struggle to prove to each other that THEIR philosophy is correct and play a constant gameof chess with the lives of the humans that find the island. Since the brother of darkness is out to prove that nothing matters, he hatches a plan to kill his brother, finally proving his point and escaping the pointlessness that he believes he is a slave to. But there are rules to this game. Since ultimately, the point is to find whether humans are primarily good, they have to, for the most part only manipulate the pieces. They can't physically make anybody do anything.

[Red Brooklyn]

Good to see you in the LOST thread, McCann.

But that's what I loved about this last episode. There wasn't always this game. And it's wholey Jacob's game. And it's a game he invented seemigly to cover his own ass.

Smokey isn't playing any kind of game. This isn't chess. I think 'Across The Sea' went a long way in humanizing Jacob and Smokey. They aren't gods or demigods or demons or angels or whatever. They are men who have access to extraordinary power. But they are just as grey as our losties. They weren't born "light" and "dark." Choices have made them who they are, and sometimes not even their own choices. Smokey is such a simpathetic character now.

I'm so thrilled with the information they chose to reveal in this last episode.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn

Good to see you in the LOST thread, McCann.

But that's what I loved about this last episode. There wasn't always this game. And it's wholey Jacob's game. And it's a game he invented seemigly to cover his own ass.

Smokey isn't playing any kind of game. This isn't chess. I think 'Across The Sea' went a long way in humanizing Jacob and Smokey. They aren't gods or demigods or demons or angels or whatever. They are men who have access to extraordinary power. But they are just as grey as our losties. They weren't born "light" and "dark." Choices have made them who they are, and sometimes not even their own choices. Smokey is such a simpathetic character now.

I'm so thrilled with the information they chose to reveal in this last episode.

Why hit us over the head with black and white themes for 6 years if it is all a shade of gray? A light haired baby in a white blanket wearing light colored clothes vs. a dark haired moody baby, in a dark blanket and dark clothes.

[mcan]

Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn

Good to see you in the LOST thread, McCann.

But that's what I loved about this last episode. There wasn't always this game. And it's wholey Jacob's game. And it's a game he invented seemigly to cover his own ass.

Smokey isn't playing any kind of game. This isn't chess. I think 'Across The Sea' went a long way in humanizing Jacob and Smokey. They aren't gods or demigods or demons or angels or whatever. They are men who have access to extraordinary power. But they are just as grey as our losties. They weren't born "light" and "dark." Choices have made them who they are, and sometimes not even their own choices. Smokey is such a simpathetic character now.

I'm so thrilled with the information they chose to reveal in this last episode.

Glad to be here. I read a lot, but rarely post from work. I'm supposed to be on the other side of this partition, watching for customers on the lot. Not sitting at my desk and typing about LOST. Which is admittedly a whole lot more fun.


I think he's sympathetic, but ultimately a bad guy. He's trying to destroy everybody else for his own selfish gain. Getting off the island and killing Jacob and proving his point. Winning this game is all he cares about.

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by mcan

I think he's sympathetic, but ultimately a bad guy. He's trying to destroy everybody else for his own selfish gain. Getting off the island and killing Jacob and proving his point. Winning this game is all he cares about.

He's certainly the "bad guy." Or the guy to cheer against. If for no other reason than his getting what he wants puts everyone else in danger. But he wasn't always that way. He wasn't born evil or dangerous. His brother made him that way. Literally.

And I don't think he gives two shits about any games. I think he's over Jacob's little experiement. He wants to leave. That's it. Either he knows his leaving will destroy the world (and he doesn't care because he's seen what humanity is capable of) or he honestly thinks there's no harm in his leaving. If it's the latter, he's an expremely sympathetic villain. It's just not cut and dry and black and white. It's so exciting. All of these characters have levels. And it's beginning to really focus on the larger philosophic themes of the show.

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Why hit us over the head with black and white themes for 6 years if it is all a shade of gray? A light haired baby in a white blanket wearing light colored clothes vs. a dark haired moody baby, in a dark blanket and dark clothes.

It's a motif, a running theme. The idea is that each individual has light and dark elements to their personality. Everyone has both inside them. Jacob equates it to a scale that can tip one way or the other. Jacob's hope is that eventually mankind's scale will tip to the light. The light and dark metaphore is still very important to the show, it just isn't a prison for Jacob and Smokey. Those two characters are not one or the other. They are both. Just like the rest of us. But they have made their choices. Their scales have already tipped.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by mcan

I think he's sympathetic, but ultimately a bad guy. He's trying to destroy everybody else for his own selfish gain. Getting off the island and killing Jacob and proving his point. Winning this game is all he cares about.

Can't the same be said for Jacob? He intervenes in their life and brings/draws people to the island, most of whom have perished, all for his gain of no longer having to guard the cave. Finding a replacement is all he cares about.

[mcan]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Can't the same be said for Jacob? He intervenes in their life and brings/draws people to the island, most of whom have perished, all for his gain of no longer having to guard the cave. Finding a replacement is all he cares about.

I really don't think this is the case. Jacob has a different plan, which we don't know yet. "It only ends once, everything else is just progress." Jacob has something up his sleeve. And I don't think its a selfish "I don't want to press this button anymore" kinda thing.

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Can't the same be said for Jacob? He intervenes in their life and brings/draws people to the island, most of whom have perished, all for his gain of no longer having to guard the cave. Finding a replacement is all he cares about.

That's actually a really interesting idea.

I think with Jacob it's a little different only because I think he really believes in the island. And I also think Jacob only decided to find a replacement once he realized Smokey would do anything to kill him.

If Jacob didn't really think Smokey would find a way, I think he'd be content to guard the island forever. I'm not sure he was in a big hurry to get out of there. Seems to me the Candidates are only there as an insurance policy.

[BigRedChief]

And I need an explanation of what was up with the numbers?

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

And I need an explanation of what was up with the numbers?

Amen.

I'd love a formal, official, in-show explanation for the numbers. There's still 3+ hours left, so I won't count it out completely... but it's looking less and less like this is going to happen.

But there's a lot of information in the show. Once it's all over I'm sure we'll be able to piece together a damn good idea of what the answer is.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

And I need an explanation of what was up with the numbers?

Yes! This is the top mystery I'd like to see revealed.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

And I need an explanation of what was up with the numbers?

I think they gave their explanation.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

I think they gave their explanation.

What was it?

I'm afraid the answer is that those were the last 6 candidates standing but that's extremely unsatisfying. Why 6 instead of 7 or 5. Why were those numbers so commonly repeated long before the candidate list was narrowed to 6 and since they were, why did it take so long for Jacob to figure out who the 6 were?