Chiefs "Preaching to the CP Choir, or, The Day We Saw Marty Die"

Sully · 12-23-2012, 07:34 PM

I think the majority of CP is well aware of this, so I'm not treading new ground. But there are still some holdouts, and I thought today was a perfect illustration of the fact that you cannot win in today's NFL the way the Chiefs did in the 90s.

Apart from a couple of things, today's game was a Schottenheimer wet dream. An absolutely dominant running game, and a defense that made the other team uncomfortable the entire day. The only thing that would've kept Marty from PE about this game were the penalties and turnovers (no small caveat).

However, the turnovers were a result of a game managing QB trying to do more than he's capable of, and a fumble by a guy who everyone is keying on due to the limitations of the former.

I think of all the people on this forum, milkman (a guy I respect, but have had disagreements in the past with) has the best definition of a franchise QB. With apologies for paraphrasing, and this is from a poor memory, but he has said that being a franchise QB isn't about huge numbers and flashy games, but simply about being the man when the need arises. Andrew Luck had 10 straight incompletions today. Although he does have the flashy stats, and made some superhuman throws today, he wasn't "great" today. But ultimately, when his team needed it, he made plays, and got the win for his team.

Conversely, I believe that, by definition, a "game managing" QB is one who is simply expected to facilitate the game, not lose it, but can at best be relied upon VERY rarely to make plays when needed.

Due to today's passing offenses, the running game is only good for two things; To set up the pass (and not even that mostly), and to run some clock. Ask Mr Peterson up north how well it does in winning games. Ask Mr. Johnson down south. Ask Mr Foster in the playoffs. I don't like this fact. I prefer the football of my younger years. I prefer the 1990 Giants over the 1999 Rams. But the game is what it is.

So today, you'd have to be blind to still be on the bandwagon of running game/ defense winning games. What wins is a strong, or clutch passing attack, with a little running peppered in.

Molitoth · 12-23-2012, 08:02 PM

So technically you are saying Tim tebow would be a franchise qb?

Sully · 12-23-2012, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth

So technically you are saying Tim tebow would be a franchise qb?

Holy hell. Put me in a tough position, with that one.

Let me go ahead and amend it to only include QBs who start based on their actual talent, rather than marketing, image, and fan uproar.

KCrockaholic · 12-23-2012, 08:07 PM

How's coach Bouchard doing?

Sully · 12-23-2012, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCrockaholic

How's coach Bouchard doing?

One of the, if not THE, greatest men I've ever known. And I haven't known him that long.

KCrockaholic · 12-23-2012, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully

One of the, if not THE, greatest men I've ever known. And I haven't known him that long.

How are you acquainted with him?

Sully · 12-23-2012, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCrockaholic

How are you acquainted with him?

I'm on his coaching staff.

milkman · 12-23-2012, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth

So technically you are saying Tim tebow would be a franchise qb?

The definition is simplistic.

There is more to it than just being clutch, but being clutch is absolutely essential.

In order to be a franchise QB, you must first actually possess QB skills.

KCrockaholic · 12-23-2012, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully

I'm on his coaching staff.

Terrific.

Yeah he's a great guy and motivator. Definitely knows his stuff. I wish I was able to hang around him longer. Haven't seen him in 7 or 8 years.

Molitoth · 12-23-2012, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully

Holy hell. Put me in a tough position, with that one.

Let me go ahead and amend it to only include QBs who start based on their actual talent, rather than marketing, image, and fan uproar.

I was just giving you shit.

Ace Gunner · 12-23-2012, 08:14 PM

what is your experience with a narrowing talent pool of HS players due to head trauma concerns? are you seeing kids drop out of football?

Sully · 12-23-2012, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzz_TinBalls

what is your experience with a narrowing talent pool of HS players due to head trauma concerns? are you seeing kids drop out of football?

Depends on the staff...
I've been on staffs where I was very uncomfortable with letting a player in a game post-concussion as quickly as we did.
I'm happy now because on this staff we focus hard on tackling the right way, and drill it as a defense probably more than anything else.
But it happens. I quit playing years ago, partly because of concussions (and other far dumber reasons). You try to teach the right way to do things, and hope and pray that injury doesn't occur. If it does... Next guy up.

Sully · 12-23-2012, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

The definition is simplistic.

There is more to it than just being clutch, but being clutch is absolutely essential.

In order to be a franchise QB, you must first actually possess QB skills.

My apologies. I knew going from memory would take away from your thoughts on it.

Coogs · 12-23-2012, 08:22 PM

I get your point, but I would still take my chances with 350 rushing yards any day of the week.

Sully · 12-23-2012, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coogs

I get your point, but I would still take my chances with 350 rushing yards any day of the week.

Given the option, would you want 350 yards rushing and a pedestrian QB, or 350 passing and a pedestrian running game?

12-23-2012, 07:34 PM
Sully It Goes On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Lees Summit Casino cash: $10026331	"Preaching to the CP Choir, or, The Day We Saw Marty Die" I think the majority of CP is well aware of this, so I'm not treading new ground. But there are still some holdouts, and I thought today was a perfect illustration of the fact that you cannot win in today's NFL the way the Chiefs did in the 90s. Apart from a couple of things, today's game was a Schottenheimer wet dream. An absolutely dominant running game, and a defense that made the other team uncomfortable the entire day. The only thing that would've kept Marty from PE about this game were the penalties and turnovers (no small caveat). However, the turnovers were a result of a game managing QB trying to do more than he's capable of, and a fumble by a guy who everyone is keying on due to the limitations of the former. I think of all the people on this forum, milkman (a guy I respect, but have had disagreements in the past with) has the best definition of a franchise QB. With apologies for paraphrasing, and this is from a poor memory, but he has said that being a franchise QB isn't about huge numbers and flashy games, but simply about being the man when the need arises. Andrew Luck had 10 straight incompletions today. Although he does have the flashy stats, and made some superhuman throws today, he wasn't "great" today. But ultimately, when his team needed it, he made plays, and got the win for his team. Conversely, I believe that, by definition, a "game managing" QB is one who is simply expected to facilitate the game, not lose it, but can at best be relied upon VERY rarely to make plays when needed. Due to today's passing offenses, the running game is only good for two things; To set up the pass (and not even that mostly), and to run some clock. Ask Mr Peterson up north how well it does in winning games. Ask Mr. Johnson down south. Ask Mr Foster in the playoffs. I don't like this fact. I prefer the football of my younger years. I prefer the 1990 Giants over the 1999 Rams. But the game is what it is. So today, you'd have to be blind to still be on the bandwagon of running game/ defense winning games. What wins is a strong, or clutch passing attack, with a little running peppered in.
Posts: 18,295

12-23-2012, 08:02 PM	#2
Molitoth Mahomes Fanboi Join Date: Apr 2004 Casino cash: $2984969	So technically you are saying Tim tebow would be a franchise qb?
Posts: 19,475

12-23-2012, 08:07 PM	#4
KCrockaholic Sarcasm Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Olathe Casino cash: $4792900	How's coach Bouchard doing?
Posts: 21,133

12-23-2012, 08:14 PM	#11
Ace Gunner First Overall Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: kcmo Casino cash: $10007271	what is your experience with a narrowing talent pool of HS players due to head trauma concerns? are you seeing kids drop out of football? __________________ The Greatest
Posts: 10,580

12-23-2012, 08:22 PM	#14
Coogs In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Northern Kansas Casino cash: $1624349	I get your point, but I would still take my chances with 350 rushing yards any day of the week.
Posts: 21,608