baseball and steroids - Page 3

whoman69 · 12-07-2004, 07:04 PM

do you care?

Boozer · 12-07-2004, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcan

Of course they are! You can just look at these guys and see that they are juiced. People don't get that big naturally.

My new favorite "delicious irony" is football fans getting indignant over baseballs "steroid problem."

Logical · 12-07-2004, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

So the record stood for 40 years and then it's broken, what, 7 times in 5 years?

And each time by a guy who used to weigh about a buck and a quarter but now looks like Ivan Drago?

Right... keep telling me it had nothing to do with it...

There is no way you can say that Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa used to weigh a buck and a quarter, both have been big power hitters for their entire career. I will give you the growth on Barry.

jspchief · 12-07-2004, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcan

I promise you that if you took steroids right now and went for a nice little run, you would be no faster or stronger than you were before you took them.

As in 5 minutes after taking them? No sh*t. Give me two weeks and I'll definately be stronger.

jspchief · 12-07-2004, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boozer

My new favorite "delicious irony" is football fans getting indignant over baseballs "steroid problem."

There's nothing ironic about it. At least football makes an honest effort to test for steroids, and has legitimate punishments.

MLB just sweeps it under the carpet.

Demonpenz · 12-07-2004, 09:59 PM

sammy was pretty darn skinny in his days with the rangers

Demonpenz · 12-07-2004, 10:00 PM

Oh and sammy's forehead didn't look like the overhang at tiger staduim

Boozer · 12-07-2004, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

There's nothing ironic about it. At least football makes an honest effort to test for steroids, and has legitimate punishments.

MLB just sweeps it under the carpet.

Note to MLB: Institute nominal testing program, the fans will buy it.

jspchief · 12-07-2004, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boozer

Note to MLB: Institute nominal testing program, the fans will buy it.

Yea, doing nothing is a much better effort.

It's like thiefs, you can't keep all of them from stealing, so why bother stopping any?

Look, I realize that there will always be steroids in sports. It's the nature of the beast. The chemists that are creating these drugs will always have the upper hand, because they only have to make a small change to an existing drug, then testers are forced to figure out what that change is.

But other leagues have at least made an effort. Minor league base ball has ten times the steroid enforcement that MLB has. It's evident that there is juicing, now it is MLB's job to try and stop it.

And all this arguing is ignoring the fact that it's illegal, regardless of what effect it has on the game. I oppose the use of illegal drugs in any sport.

**BigRedChief** · 12-07-2004, 10:10 PM

Any way you slice it it is cheating. Does it help? How much? Whatever

If you try to cheat thats it in my book. Cheaters shouldnt be rewarded they should be run out of town on a rail

whoman69 · 12-08-2004, 07:33 PM

I think the most telling argument I can give is the man in the middle of the controversy. Barry was injured in 1999 and came back in 2000 having gained at least 50 lbs of muscle, probably closer to 75. I will call that his point of initial steroid use. In the five seasons since then he has had 258 HR in 2122 AB in 586 games. Prior he had impressive numbers of 445 HR in 6976 AB in 2130 games. From taking steroids he improved from a HR in every 15.6 AB to 8.2 AB and a HR in every 4.78 games to one every 2.27 games. No player in the history of baseball has gotten better after age 35. Bonds turned 36 in 2000. His career high in HR prior to this was 46 in 1993 and he went over 40 HR only three times in the 14 seasons prior. Since his steroid use he has hit 40 HR in every season and broken his career high twice. The only player in the history of baseball to get better after age 30 was Paul Molitor and that was because he switched from 3B to DH and was finally healthy.
The argument that players are better conditioned and stronger has real holes in it. If that is true then how come pitchers haven't kept pace?

KCJake · 12-08-2004, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcan

Athletes have been on drugs since there were drugs to be given to them.. IE: the 1970s...

The fact is, drugs don't make you stronger. Steroids will only help you recover faster and maximize the work that you do in the gym. Most of the athletes back in the day ate crappy food and worked out a couple times a week... Then vacationed the entire offseason... The were on high dosages of steroids, but it didn't show on most of them because they didn't work as hard as the modern athlete.

Barry Bonds, et all... They are in the gym everyday, eating 2 grams of protein for every pound of body weight, working on their game the ENTIRE offseason, and they are working their asses off. They take steroids in much safer dosages, and most of them have a cycling program that minimizes the ill health effects... There really isn't any reason why an athlete (or any citizen for that matter) who is being safe about using these drugs, shouldn't be allowed to use them.

The smartest man on the planet. Finally, someone that knows what their talking about.

KCJake · 12-08-2004, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

I think the most telling argument I can give is the man in the middle of the controversy. Barry was injured in 1999 and came back in 2000 having gained at least 50 lbs of muscle, probably closer to 75.

Sorry, but no one in the history of the world has ever gained 75lbs of muscle in one year. I would say, VERY FEW have come close to putting on 50lbs of muscle in one year.

Logical · 12-08-2004, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

...

And all this arguing is ignoring the fact that it's illegal, regardless of what effect it has on the game. I oppose the use of illegal drugs in any sport.

I on the other hand oppose drugs being illegal, it is a stupid waste of national resources. Legalize them but control distribution and tax the hell out of it.

**Dave Lane** · 12-08-2004, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saulbadguy

I could care less. I might care when players install artificial super retinas, wired reflexes, and synthetic muscle fibers.

Why then?

Dave

**Dave Lane** · 12-08-2004, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad Logicslav

I on the other hand oppose drugs being illegal, it is a stupid waste of national resources. Legalize them but control distribution and tax the hell out of it.

I agree 100%. Surprised Jim?

Dave

View Poll Results: Do you care if players take steroids?
Yes, it makes their records questionable	21	75.00%
No, bring on the homers	6	21.43%
I think Gaz is on steroids	1	3.57%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

12-07-2004, 07:04 PM
whoman69 The Master Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Marion, IA Casino cash: $10004925	baseball and steroids do you care?
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12-07-2004, 09:59 PM	#35
Demonpenz I got Rice cookin in the micro Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $3122136	sammy was pretty darn skinny in his days with the rangers __________________
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12-07-2004, 10:00 PM	#36
Demonpenz I got Rice cookin in the micro Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $3122136	Oh and sammy's forehead didn't look like the overhang at tiger staduim __________________
Posts: 54,273

12-07-2004, 10:10 PM	#39
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3139627 VARSITY	Any way you slice it it is cheating. Does it help? How much? Whatever If you try to cheat thats it in my book. Cheaters shouldnt be rewarded they should be run out of town on a rail __________________ Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. -YODA
Posts: 79,023