Movies and TV The Official "Lost" the series discussion - Page 405

Deberg_1990 · 10-06-2004, 04:29 PM

I figured I would start a thread for this and see what happens....there seemed to be quite a few viewers on the board for this show the past few weeks.....I like the direction the show is taking so far......episode 3 tonight at 7 central on ABC....

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-19-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck

Dane, you are so incredibly wrong it's not even funny. Also I don't care how many "industry" people agree with you. I don't care if the boom mic operator from Two and a Half Men shares your theory.

Please tell me how "Flash Backs" are relevant to Jack's journey.

Please explain to me how the "Sideways" are relevant Jack's.

We'll start from there.

**Buck** · 06-19-2010, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Please tell me how "Flash Backs" are relevant to Jack's journey.

Please explain to me how the "Sideways" are relevant Jack's.

We'll start from there.

Please tell me when you've ever had a dream that didn't include yourself.

Please tell me any dream that you've ever had that was recurring and included a bunch of people that you didn't know, but you got to know over time (a long time). Please tell me why if it was all a "dream" within a split second of time" why Jack dreamed about on island stuff, off island stuff, created characters like Matthew Abaddon, The Economist, Helen, Dave, etc. in his head?

**Reaper16** · 06-19-2010, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck

Please tell me when you've ever had a dream that didn't include yourself.

Please tell me any dream that you've ever had that was recurring and included a bunch of people that you didn't know, but you got to know over time (a long time). Please tell me why if it was all a "dream" within a split second of time" why Jack dreamed about on island stuff, off island stuff, created characters like Matthew Abaddon, The Economist, Helen, Dave, etc. in his head?

You can't move on to Heaven without Dave.

Red Brooklyn · 06-19-2010, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

That's the problem: The ending would have been the same regardless of what happened in between. The show would have come to the same conclusion.

My disappointment lies within the fact that the writers set up this amazing mythology, a mythology that captivated a great many of the show's viewers, only to reveal NOTHING about that mythology and basically shit all over it. It was completely and utterly irrelevant in the end.

It was a plot device and unexplained at that.

But sure, it all happened because Jack's dad said so. You know, Christian Shepard.

I need to stop because it's only going to piss me off even more.

Well... again, I respectfully disagree. But the last thing I want to do is piss you off!

So we'll just agree to disagree. You have your take. I've got mine. But, I really am sorry you feel so upset and betrayed. It sucks investing so much time, energy and even money into something that you feel just shit in your hand in return.

Red Brooklyn · 06-19-2010, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16

You can't move on to Heaven without Dave.

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-19-2010, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck

Please tell me when you've ever had a dream that didn't include yourself.

Actually, I have but that's beside the point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck

Please tell me any dream that you've ever had that was recurring and included a bunch of people that you didn't know, but you got to know over time (a long time).

That happens all the time. I have dreams about people I haven't met and I've had premonitions while sleeping that unfortunately came true as soon as I awoke.

Those included the death of two people, one very famous and one close to our family.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck

Please tell me why if it was all a "dream" within a split second of time" why Jack dreamed about on island stuff, off island stuff, created characters like Matthew Abaddon, The Economist, Helen, Dave, etc. in his head?

Okay, back on subject.

As I explained earlier, Jack, in a nanosecond, created everything that happened on the island in order to help himself realize that he needed to leave behind the "Man of Science" and become a "Man of Faith" in order for his soul to move on.

He came in contact with everyone on the plane either in the airport or on the plane itself. Those people became his portal in which to create a scenario in which he himself reconciles the fact that he needed to change before he could become spiritually enlightened.

Now, you don't have to agree with my "theory" but it's silly to dismiss it, especially since I've laid everything out in an entirely plausible scenario.

And furthermore, it's much easier to believe my theory than taking the show literally, because there are just too many unexplained phenomena and plot holes to make a convincing argument that "what happened, happened".

Why do you think that there wasn't one person on the planet that had the show figured out beforehand? It's because we needed to see the ending matched with the beginning to truly realize what this show was really about.

With that said, it doesn't take away from the brilliant acting and the relationships that we as individuals had with the show. It's just that now we know why everything had to happen as it did.

irishjayhawk · 06-19-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

That's the problem: The ending would have been the same regardless of what happened in between. The show would have come to the same conclusion.

My disappointment lies within the fact that the writers set up this amazing mythology, a mythology that captivated a great many of the show's viewers, only to reveal NOTHING about that mythology and basically shit all over it. It was completely and utterly irrelevant in the end.

It was a plot device and unexplained at that.

But sure, it all happened because Jack's dad said so. You know, Christian Shepard.

I need to stop because it's only going to piss me off even more.

I think people know my religious standing but those things in LOST never really bothered me. Sure, I was a bit miffed when, ultimately, it was afterlife and came down to "have faith in something" but it wasn't overt, IMO.

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-19-2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishjayhawk

I think people know my religious standing but those things in LOST never really bothered me. Sure, I was a bit miffed when, ultimately, it was afterlife and came down to "have faith in something" but it wasn't overt, IMO.

Did you happen to notice the six paned-glass wall behind Christian when he was explaining everything to Jack?

That was pretty freakin' overt, at least IMO.

irishjayhawk · 06-19-2010, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Did you happen to notice the six paned-glass wall behind Christian when he was explaining everything to Jack?

That was pretty freakin' overt, at least IMO.

Yeah but I lump that into the whole cop out afterlife thing. Seriously, take out that last scene and view the series as a whole. Aside from Christian Shepard - and as people have pointed out, there are lots of names from the other side of the spectrum (Hume, specifically) - there isn't that much which is overt.

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-19-2010, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishjayhawk

Yeah but I lump that into the whole cop out afterlife thing. Seriously, take out that last scene and view the series as a whole. Aside from Christian Shepard - and as people have pointed out, there are lots of names from the other side of the spectrum (Hume, specifically) - there isn't that much which is overt.

I found that whole scene laughable. Anytime you need a character exposition to explain what is and was happening, you're witnessing poor writing and a poor concept.

It seemed tacked on and cheesy.

Red Brooklyn · 06-19-2010, 04:50 PM

I didn't hate the final scene by any means. It certainly didn't feel "tacked on" to me. Seemed like a pretty logical conclusion to what had been set up since 'LA X.'

Cheesy? That's in the eye of the beholder. But I'll give you cheesy before I give you tacked on.

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-19-2010, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn

I didn't hate the final scene by any means. It certainly didn't feel "tacked on" to me. Seemed like a pretty logical conclusion to what had been set up since 'LA X.'

Cheesy? That's in the eye of the beholder. But I'll give you cheesy before I give you tacked on.

Dude, no offense, but if you need an exposition or voice-over to explain an extremely critical passage in a film or TV show (and in this case, a show that's had over 121 hours to explain itself), it's cheesy and nothing less than poor writing.

And without that "explanation", what are you left with?

THAT'S why it's cheesy and poorly done.

**Reaper16** · 06-19-2010, 04:54 PM

My problem with Dane's interpretation is that there doesn't seem to be much "textual" evidence for it beyond Jack "landing" and "dying" in what appears to be the same spot on the island. Dane's interpretation makes logical sense when abstracted from the show but I don't see the in-show support for it.

Red Brooklyn · 06-19-2010, 04:59 PM

No offense taken. I totally see where you're coming from. But I wouldn't call it poor writing. Some people think using adverbs is "poor" writing. It's just one way to get there.

And I think had there been less explanatin in that scene, people would have hated it for that reason. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

I'm not saying there wasn't a better way to handle it. But it could have been much, much worse as well.

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-19-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16

My problem with Dane's interpretation is that there doesn't seem to be much "textual" evidence for it beyond Jack "landing" and "dying" in what appears to be the same spot on the island. Dane's interpretation makes logical sense when abstracted from the show but I don't see the in-show support for it.

This is why you have to look at it like this:

1. The Flashbacks mean nothing to Jack's journey. It's just "filler" for the viewer to become familiar with the character(s) but in the "Grand Scheme" of things, the flashbacks really mean nothing to his current state because it had already occurred.

2. *Spoiler* (just for you). The Flash Sideways mean absolutely nothing because it never occurred. It wasn't a flashback or a flash "side". It was a plot device and IMO, completely unnecessary to the plot, the season or the story. They should have used that time instead to further detail the mythology that had integrated into the show from day one. Instead, it was just a waste of time.

All that matters is what happened on the Island. That's it. The flashbacks didn't help Jack's journey and the flashsides didn't happen.

If you focus on Jack's present, it all becomes clear.

10-06-2004, 04:29 PM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $3914454	The Official "Lost" the series discussion I figured I would start a thread for this and see what happens....there seemed to be quite a few viewers on the board for this show the past few weeks.....I like the direction the show is taking so far......episode 3 tonight at 7 central on ABC....
Posts: 66,914

06-19-2010, 04:50 PM	#6071
Red Brooklyn Veteran Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Brooklyn, NY Casino cash: $8131398	I didn't hate the final scene by any means. It certainly didn't feel "tacked on" to me. Seemed like a pretty logical conclusion to what had been set up since 'LA X.' Cheesy? That's in the eye of the beholder. But I'll give you cheesy before I give you tacked on.
Posts: 3,833

06-19-2010, 04:59 PM	#6074
Red Brooklyn Veteran Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Brooklyn, NY Casino cash: $8131398	No offense taken. I totally see where you're coming from. But I wouldn't call it poor writing. Some people think using adverbs is "poor" writing. It's just one way to get there. And I think had there been less explanatin in that scene, people would have hated it for that reason. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I'm not saying there wasn't a better way to handle it. But it could have been much, much worse as well.
Posts: 3,833