Movies and TV The Official "Lost" the series discussion - Page 407

Deberg_1990 · 10-06-2004, 04:29 PM

I figured I would start a thread for this and see what happens....there seemed to be quite a few viewers on the board for this show the past few weeks.....I like the direction the show is taking so far......episode 3 tonight at 7 central on ABC....

**Reaper16** · 06-19-2010, 05:30 PM

Man, I wish this discussion were happening a week from now.

**Reaper16** · 06-19-2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Occam's Razor.

Your entire interpretation eschews Occam's Razor because it throws away the majority of the show's screentime.

Red Brooklyn · 06-19-2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I Sharing the same frustration, I have chosen to take the writers [in the voice of Christian Shepard] at his word, particularly in light of the aforementioned stories that did not even peripherally reference Jack as involved or observing or relevant, that 'everything happened' and take it to mean 'sorry for the bait and switch, but we felt we needed a fantastical and gripping setting to draw you into our ecumenical message.' Basically the most polished and gripping, if utterly irrelevant, Jehovah's Witness preamble ever, in a sense an inversion of the 'fantastical tale of Zenu' the SuperAdventureClub gives you at the END of their ecumenical message.

I still don't understand the "bait and switch" analogy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16

I'm pretty sure that once it is over I will be arguing that, yes, the show is a mess of plot holes an unexplained phenomena.

There is definately "unexplained phenomena." But I don't see how that hurts the show. There's unexplained phenomena in life. Are there plot holes? Sure. It's a tv show. But I'd argue there are no more or less plot holes than any other genre show.

Most of the show is explained, albeit implicitly. And most of it drive the characters as well as the plot.

**Reaper16** · 06-19-2010, 05:33 PM

The switch happened very early. It isn't like there wasn't precedent starting in season one for faith playing a huge role in the show. Granted, few would have thought it would go to the degree that it did.

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-19-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16

My biggest beef with Dane's interpretation is that, if so, it would render all of Lost's artistic weight meaningless. Utterly meaningless. The audience walks away from Dane's Lost no better, no more learned, no more informed than when they started watching. Nearly all of the themes played out over the course of six seasons are rendered moot.

I don't agree with that.

Millions of people were introduced to scientific theories, philosophers and philosophies, as well as a "fun" mythology based on pseudo science.

The relationship between the characters was unparalleled on a network TV show, especially given the diversity of the cast.

My interpretation shouldn't hamper what happened on the show in terms of interpersonal relationships. It should go to explain the biggest question surrounding the TV show: What was the "Island"?

**Reaper16** · 06-19-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I don't agree with that.

Millions of people were introduced to scientific theories, philosophers and philosophies, as well as a "fun" mythology based on pseudo science.

The relationship between the characters was unparalleled on a network TV show, especially given the diversity of the cast.

My interpretation shouldn't hamper what happened on the show in terms of interpersonal relationships. It should go to explain the biggest question surrounding the TV show: What was the "Island"?

I think I'm going to table my posts about the show's ending until after I finish. Because I don't want to spoil my thoughts about the show's single biggest artistic statement (it is directly related to the man of science vs man of faith dichotomy) until after I've seen it all. I think discussions about the show like the one we're having is actually a result of that artistic statement.

irishjayhawk · 06-19-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16

I think I'm going to table my posts about the show's ending until after I finish. Because I don't want to spoil my thoughts about the show's single biggest artistic statement (it is directly related to the man of science vs man of faith dichotomy) until after I've seen it all. I think discussions about the show like the one we're having is actually a result of that artistic statement.

Well, hurry up, dammit.

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-19-2010, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16

Your entire interpretation eschews Occam's Razor because it throws away the majority of the show's screentime.

No, actually it doesn't. What makes more sense?

1. A plane is split into two pieces over the Indian Ocean and more than 60 people survive that crash, then end up on a beautiful tropical island in which no one escapes. An island with polar bears, a secret scientific organization, Egyptian relics, three immortals and an unknown power that has the ability to wipe out mankind.

Or:

2. The plane splits into two pieces, everyone dies instantly but in the nanosecond between life and death, a single man has to travel on a hero's journey with his very soul hanging in the balance.

irishjayhawk · 06-19-2010, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

No, actually it doesn't. What makes more sense?

1. A plane is split into two pieces over the Indian Ocean and more than 60 people survive that crash, then end up on a beautiful tropical island in which no one escapes. An island with polar bears, a secret scientific organization, Egyptian relics, three immortals and an unknown power that has the ability to wipe out mankind.

Or:

2. The plane splits into two pieces, everyone dies instantly but in the nanosecond between life and death, a single man has to travel on a hero's journey with his very soul hanging in the balance.

But then that just begs the question. Why?

irishjayhawk · 06-19-2010, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

No, actually it doesn't. What makes more sense?

1. A plane is split into two pieces over the Indian Ocean and more than 60 people survive that crash, then end up on a beautiful tropical island in which no one escapes. An island with polar bears, a secret scientific organization, Egyptian relics, three immortals and an unknown power that has the ability to wipe out mankind.

Or:

2. The plane splits into two pieces, everyone dies instantly but in the nanosecond between life and death, a single man has to travel on a hero's journey with his very soul hanging in the balance.

See, when you put it like this instead of how BL put it (which I'm beginning to think you don't even subscribe to what he offered) we disagree again.

You seem to be stuck on the "well, the whole journey was absurd. Ergo, it was all a dream"

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-19-2010, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishjayhawk

But then that just begs the question. Why?

We're shown why in the Flashbacks and on the island in his conversations with John Locke.

He was a man of science who had no faith. The show tells us clearly that faith is required to attain enlightenment and move on after death.

**Reaper16** · 06-19-2010, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

No, actually it doesn't. What makes more sense?

1. A plane is split into two pieces over the Indian Ocean and more than 60 people survive that crash and end up on a beautiful tropical island in which no one escapes. An island with polar bears, a secret scientific organization, Egyptian relics, three immortals and an unknown power that has the ability to wipe out mankind.

Or:

2. The plane splits into two pieces, everyone dies instantly but in the nanosecond between life and death, a single man has to travel on a hero's journey with his very soul hanging in the balance?

Which is simpler:

1.) The events of the show actually happened; there is a reason we saw them.
or

2.) The majority of the stuff written for and broadcast on the show is stuff that didn't happen but everyone had to see anyway, even if it had nothing to do with Jack's hero's journey.

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-19-2010, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishjayhawk

See, when you put it like this instead of how BL put it (which I'm beginning to think you don't even subscribe to what he offered) we disagree again.

You seem to be stuck on the "well, the whole journey was absurd. Ergo, it was all a dream"

Huh?

When did I say it was absurd?

It doesn't matter how it happened. What matters is that it had to happen in order for Jack to move on.

And who said anything about a dream? Who here knows what happens the instant you die?

irishjayhawk · 06-19-2010, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

We're shown why in the Flashbacks and on the island in his conversations with John Locke.

He was a man of science who had no faith. The show tells us clearly that faith is required to attain enlightenment and move on after death.

So he invents everyone on the plane as it's going down to be in his journey and helps explain to himself he needs faith?

You don't see how that's equally as absurd as what you're discarding?

irishjayhawk · 06-19-2010, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Huh?

When did I say it was absurd?

It doesn't matter how it happened. What matters is that it had to happen in order for Jack to move on.

And who said anything about a dream? Who here knows what happens the instant you die?

Dream meaning the classic "dream sequence" which this would fit under. It didn't REALLY happen.

And by absurd I mean "fantastical". You seem hung up on Egyptians, pregnancies that can't happen, polar bears, smoke monsters etc. "It's soooo fantastical it's not REAL! ERGO DREAM!"

10-06-2004, 04:29 PM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $3914454	The Official "Lost" the series discussion I figured I would start a thread for this and see what happens....there seemed to be quite a few viewers on the board for this show the past few weeks.....I like the direction the show is taking so far......episode 3 tonight at 7 central on ABC....
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