Jaws picks Jared Allen as NFL Defensive POY. - Page 4

|Zach| · 01-01-2007, 09:36 PM

I know its not an official award but...

That was surprising.

**Mr. Kotter** · 01-01-2007, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Jaws is stupid. I think it should be either Taylor or Champ. You can throw Adelphius(sp) Thomas in there as well.

I think that is a bit over the top....Allen is certainly, the Chief's MVP on Defense.....which, at least, puts him into consideration.

But, yeah, the three you mention are more deserving.

**dirk digler** · 01-01-2007, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

I think that is a bit over the top....Allen is certainly, the Chief's MVP on Defense.....which, at least, puts him into consideration.

But, yeah, the three you mention are more deserving.

Cmon Jared Allen is not even in the top 30 in sacks. In order to be a D MVP you have to be top 1-2 in something. Hali or DJ is probably the Chiefs D MVP.

**Rain Man** · 01-01-2007, 10:56 PM

Just FYI, based on nfl.com's statistics, when comparing ALL defensive linemen in the league, including both tackles and ends, Jared Allen ranked:

5th in "combined tackles" (??? - what does this mean") with 77 (The leaders were Aaron Kampman with 89, Ty Warren with 84, and Justin Smith with 81.)

1st in total tackles with 65 (The next highest were Aaron Kampman with 59 and Bryan Thomas with 58.)

1st in solo tackles with 60 (The next highest were Leonard Little with 49 and Justin Smith with 44.)

21st (tie) in sacks, with 7.5 (The leaders were Aaron Kampman with 15.5, Aaron Schobel with 14.5, and Jason Taylor with 13.5.)

1st in recovered fumbles with 6 (The next highest was 3, by 11 players)

1st in passes defensed with 11 (The next highest were Jason Taylor with 10 and Terrell Suggs and Richard Seymour with 8)

9th (tie) in forced fumbles with 3 (Leaders - Jason Taylor with 9 and Leonard Little with 7)

5th (tie) in interceptions with 1 (15 DL had 1 interception, while 4 had 2 - Jason Taylor, Mathias Kiwanuka, Alex Brown, and Fred Robbins)

How did he not make the pro bowl?

It could also be argued that he was as valuable as any defensive linemen in the league. Here's a roll call of the top statistical producers, which includes everyone who ranked in the top five in tackles, solo tackles, sacks, passes defensed, or forced fumbles. (It includes the top four in fumble recoveries, but there's a whole mess of guys tied for fifth in that category. It doesn't include the top five interceptors for the same reason.)

Jared Allen: 65 tackles, 40 solo, 7.5 sacks, 11 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 6 fumble recoveries, 1 interception

Aaron Kampman: 59 tackles, 43 solo, 15.5 sacks, 0 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Aaron Schobel: 35 tackles, 23 solo, 14 sacks, 3 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Ty Warren: 56 tackles, 25 solo, 7.5 sacks, 4 passes defensed, 1 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Justin Smith: 50 tackles, 44 solo, 7.5 sacks, 3 passes defensed, 1 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Leonard Little: 55 tackles, 49 solo, 13 sacks, 2 passes defensed, 7 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Jason Taylor: 40 tackles, 36 solo, 13.5 sacks, 10 passes defensed, 9 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 2 interceptions

Bryan Thomas: 58 tackles, 40 solo, 8.5 sacks, 0 passes defensed, 1 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Trevor Pryce: 37 tackles, 27 solo, 13 sacks, 2 passes defensed, 2 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Julius Peppers: 48 tackles, 43 solo, 13 sacks, 6 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Richard Seymour: 22 tackles, 13 solo, 4 sacks, 8 passes defensed, 0 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 1 interceptions

Dewayne White: 33 tackles, 23 solo, 5 sacks, 7 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 3 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Kevin Williams: 28 tackles, 21 solo, 5 sacks, 7 passes defensed, 0 forced fumbles, 3 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Chike Okeafor: 41 tackles, 34 solo, 7 sacks, 8.5 passes defensed, 2 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Tamba Hali: 40 tackles, 37 solo, 8 sacks, 2 passes defensed, 5 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 1 interceptions

Dwight Freeney: 26 tackles, 20 solo, 5.5 sacks, 3 passes defensed, 4 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Robert Mathis: 50 tackles, 34 solo, 9.5 sacks, 3 passes defensed, 4 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

John Abraham: 15 tackles, 12 solo, 4 sacks, 1 passes defensed, 4 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Mark Anderson: 23 tackles, 20 solo, 12 sacks, 2 passes defensed, 4 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Simeon Rice: 14 tackles, 10 solo, 2 sacks, 2 passes defensed, 4 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Using an admittedly arbitrary points scale, I awarded each of these guys points based on their stats, as shown below. While it shows Jason Taylor being first in the league among defensive linemen, Allen edges out Leonard Little for second, and Allen's drinking never killed anyone.

Interestingly, Tamba Hali ends up being ranked 7th, ahead of Mark Anderson.

Code:

Points	1	2	8	6	12	8	12	
	Tackles	Solo	Sacks	Passes Defensed	FF	FR	Int	Total
Taylor	40	36	13.5	10	9	2	2	428
Allen	65	40	7.5	11	3	6	1	367
Little	55	49	13	2	7	0	0	353
Peppers	48	43	13	6	3	2	0	326
Kampman	59	43	15.5	0	3	1	0	313
Mathis	50	34	9.5	3	4	2	0	276
Hali	40	37	8	2	5	1	1	270
Okeafor	41	34	7	8.5	2	2	0	256
Schobel	35	23	14	3	3	1	0	255
Smith	50	44	7.5	3	1	2	0	244
Pryce	37	27	13	2	2	0	0	231
Anderson	23	20	12	2	4	1	0	227
Thomas	58	40	8.5	0	1	1	0	226
White	33	23	5	7	3	3	0	221
Warren	56	25	7.5	4	1	1	0	210
Williams	28	21	5	7	0	3	0	176
Freeney	26	20	5.5	3	4	0	0	176
Seymour	22	13	4	8	0	1	1	148
Abraham	15	12	4	1	4	0	0	125
Rice	14	10	2	2	4	0	0	110

**007** · 01-01-2007, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basileus777

Bailey deserves it. Not only did he shut down practically everyone he covered this year, he was also great against the run. Plus all those interceptions, particularly the ones in the red zone.

If I hear one more game analyst say " I don't know why any quarterback would ever throw to his (Bailey's) side of the field."

Stupid comment. Yeah, take away half of your offense by choice just because Champ is over there. I seriously doubt OCs do that. They change the game plan to prepare for him but they don't throw out half of the playbook just to avoid him.

**dirk digler** · 01-01-2007, 10:59 PM

Interesting stats Rain Man and I stand corrected.

Your sack stat is wrong. Tamba is 26th with 8

IMVHO it is all about sacks for DE. Nothing else matters.

**Rain Man** · 01-01-2007, 11:02 PM

To be honest, I was surprised at how highly Jared ranked in several categories. I think based on these, he's the best defensive lineman in the league on a playoff team. Jaws' claim isn't as surprising as it seemed before I started that.

Hali's high ranking pleases me, too.

Just FYI, it's possible that a lineman is left out of that analysis if he ranked in the top ten in every category, but never in the top five. I think that's unlikely to have happened, though.

crazycoffey · 01-01-2007, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

How did he not make the pro bowl?

[/code]

That's easy, Carl pulled some strings after all it's a contract year.

**dirk digler** · 01-01-2007, 11:04 PM

You can't be D MVP if you are a DE and you don't lead your own team in sacks

**Rain Man** · 01-01-2007, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Interesting stats Rain Man and I stand corrected.

Your sack stat is wrong. Tamba is 26th with 8

IMVHO it is all about sacks for DE. Nothing else matters.

I dunno about the sack stuff. I'm using the NFL site at http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/...=12&_3:col_2=9 , which shows Hali at 19th (tied) and Allen at 21st (tied), but the site also says that it may not be the latest official stats.

I agree that sacks are the defining criteria, a philosophy that I don't necessarily agree with. Sacks are undoubtedly big plays, but a blocked pass is almost the same outcome as a sack other than a little yardage and a quarterback on his back, and no one pays attention to that stat at all. And having seen Allen run down Najeh Davenport and play sideline to sideline all year, I'm starting to think that total tackles and solo tackles are underrated, too.

**Mr. Kotter** · 01-01-2007, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Interesting stats Rain Man and I stand corrected.

Your sack stat is wrong. Tamba is 26th with 8

IMVHO it is all about sacks for DE. Nothing else matters.

Well, I hope all the voters in the HOF, for DT, are like you....because, in terms other than 'sacks,' DT was not very "accomplished."

I just LOVE the idea of a DE....who, on one play can knock the snot out of QB, and rip a fumble, and recover it.....BUT, who can, on other plays, actually play the "run" or the "pass" when they need to.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE what "DT" did for this town; but Jarred is carving a special place as a DE in this league....LOOK at his overall stats. Even guys like Freeney and Peppers aren't the "complete" DE that Allen is becoming.....IMHO.

Fish · 01-01-2007, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

To be honest, I was surprised at how highly Jared ranked in several categories. I think based on these, he's the best defensive lineman in the league on a playoff team. Jaws' claim isn't as surprising as it seemed before I started that.

You realize Allen is gonna print off your post above and put it on Carl's desk during contract negotiations now......

Hammock Parties · 01-01-2007, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

IMVHO it is all about sacks for DE. Nothing else matters.

I think you are completely off-base with this comment. Especially considering the job of a 3-4 DE.

|Zach| · 01-01-2007, 11:12 PM

Thanks for your work as always Kevin.

**dirk digler** · 01-01-2007, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I dunno about the sack stuff. I'm using the NFL site at http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/...=12&_3:col_2=9 , which shows Hali at 19th (tied) and Allen at 21st (tied), but the site also says that it may not be the latest official stats.

I agree that sacks are the defining criteria, a philosophy that I don't necessarily agree with. Sacks are undoubtedly big plays, but a blocked pass is almost the same outcome as a sack other than a little yardage and a quarterback on his back, and no one pays attention to that stat at all. And having seen Allen run down Najeh Davenport and play sideline to sideline all year, I'm starting to think that total tackles and solo tackles are underrated, too.

Quote:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/SCKS/2006/regular

1 Shawne Merriman SD 17 62
2 Aaron Kampman GB 15.5 89
3 Aaron Schobel BUF 14 53
4 Jason Taylor MIA 13.5 60
5 Trevor Pryce BAL 13 47
6 Julius Peppers CAR 13 57
7 Leonard Little STL 13 58
8 Mark Anderson CHI 12 28
9 Shaun Phillips SD 11.5 65
10 DeMarcus Ware DAL 11.5 71
11 Adalius Thomas BAL 11 83
12 Kamerion Wimbley CLE 11 62
13 Derrick Burgess OAK 11 50
14 Robert Geathers CIN 10.5 42
15 Will Smith NO 10.5 49
16 Bobby McCray JAC 10 35
17 Warren Sapp OAK 10 47
18 Julian Peterson SEA 10 89
19 Robert Mathis IND 9.5 65
20 Bart Scott BAL 9.5 103
21 Terrell Suggs BAL 9.5 64
22 Rosevelt Colvin NE 8.5 53
23 Bryan Thomas NYJ 8.5 77
24 Elvis Dumervil DEN 8.5 17
25 Chike Okeafor ARI 8.5 52
26 Tamba Hali KC 8 57
27 Trent Cole PHI 8 62
28 Karlos Dansby ARI 8 80
29 Cory Redding DET 8 47
30 Jarvis Green NE 7.5 33

**dirk digler** · 01-01-2007, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

Well, I hope all the voters in the HOF, for DT, are like you....because, in terms other than 'sacks,' DT was not very "accomplished."

I just LOVE the idea of a DE....who, on one play can knock the snot out of QB, and rip a fumble, and recover it.....BUT, who can, on other plays, actually play the "run" or the "pass" when they need to.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE what "DT" did for this town; but Jarred is carving a special place as a DE in this league....LOOK at his overall stats. Even guys like Freeney and Peppers aren't the "complete" DE that Allen is becoming.....IMHO.

I agree I was just commenting on why he didn't make the Pro Bowl or why he doesn't get the recognition that he may deserve.

I was at the game yesterday and they single blocked Allen and double teamed or chipped on Hali. That says alot IMO.

I would take Peppers over Allen any day of the week.

01-01-2007, 09:36 PM
\|Zach\| For The Glory Of The City Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $5336768	Jaws picks Jared Allen as NFL Defensive POY. I know its not an official award but... That was surprising.
Posts: 53,435

01-01-2007, 10:56 PM	#48
Rain Man NFL's #1 Ermines Fan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $3348491 VARSITY	Just FYI, based on nfl.com's statistics, when comparing ALL defensive linemen in the league, including both tackles and ends, Jared Allen ranked: 5th in "combined tackles" (??? - what does this mean") with 77 (The leaders were Aaron Kampman with 89, Ty Warren with 84, and Justin Smith with 81.) 1st in total tackles with 65 (The next highest were Aaron Kampman with 59 and Bryan Thomas with 58.) 1st in solo tackles with 60 (The next highest were Leonard Little with 49 and Justin Smith with 44.) 21st (tie) in sacks, with 7.5 (The leaders were Aaron Kampman with 15.5, Aaron Schobel with 14.5, and Jason Taylor with 13.5.) 1st in recovered fumbles with 6 (The next highest was 3, by 11 players) 1st in passes defensed with 11 (The next highest were Jason Taylor with 10 and Terrell Suggs and Richard Seymour with 8) 9th (tie) in forced fumbles with 3 (Leaders - Jason Taylor with 9 and Leonard Little with 7) 5th (tie) in interceptions with 1 (15 DL had 1 interception, while 4 had 2 - Jason Taylor, Mathias Kiwanuka, Alex Brown, and Fred Robbins) How did he not make the pro bowl? It could also be argued that he was as valuable as any defensive linemen in the league. Here's a roll call of the top statistical producers, which includes everyone who ranked in the top five in tackles, solo tackles, sacks, passes defensed, or forced fumbles. (It includes the top four in fumble recoveries, but there's a whole mess of guys tied for fifth in that category. It doesn't include the top five interceptors for the same reason.) Jared Allen: 65 tackles, 40 solo, 7.5 sacks, 11 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 6 fumble recoveries, 1 interception Aaron Kampman: 59 tackles, 43 solo, 15.5 sacks, 0 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions Aaron Schobel: 35 tackles, 23 solo, 14 sacks, 3 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions Ty Warren: 56 tackles, 25 solo, 7.5 sacks, 4 passes defensed, 1 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions Justin Smith: 50 tackles, 44 solo, 7.5 sacks, 3 passes defensed, 1 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions Leonard Little: 55 tackles, 49 solo, 13 sacks, 2 passes defensed, 7 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions Jason Taylor: 40 tackles, 36 solo, 13.5 sacks, 10 passes defensed, 9 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 2 interceptions Bryan Thomas: 58 tackles, 40 solo, 8.5 sacks, 0 passes defensed, 1 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions Trevor Pryce: 37 tackles, 27 solo, 13 sacks, 2 passes defensed, 2 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions Julius Peppers: 48 tackles, 43 solo, 13 sacks, 6 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions Richard Seymour: 22 tackles, 13 solo, 4 sacks, 8 passes defensed, 0 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 1 interceptions Dewayne White: 33 tackles, 23 solo, 5 sacks, 7 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 3 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions Kevin Williams: 28 tackles, 21 solo, 5 sacks, 7 passes defensed, 0 forced fumbles, 3 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions Chike Okeafor: 41 tackles, 34 solo, 7 sacks, 8.5 passes defensed, 2 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions Tamba Hali: 40 tackles, 37 solo, 8 sacks, 2 passes defensed, 5 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 1 interceptions Dwight Freeney: 26 tackles, 20 solo, 5.5 sacks, 3 passes defensed, 4 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions Robert Mathis: 50 tackles, 34 solo, 9.5 sacks, 3 passes defensed, 4 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions John Abraham: 15 tackles, 12 solo, 4 sacks, 1 passes defensed, 4 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions Mark Anderson: 23 tackles, 20 solo, 12 sacks, 2 passes defensed, 4 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions Simeon Rice: 14 tackles, 10 solo, 2 sacks, 2 passes defensed, 4 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions Using an admittedly arbitrary points scale, I awarded each of these guys points based on their stats, as shown below. While it shows Jason Taylor being first in the league among defensive linemen, Allen edges out Leonard Little for second, and Allen's drinking never killed anyone. Interestingly, Tamba Hali ends up being ranked 7th, ahead of Mark Anderson. Code: Points 1 2 8 6 12 8 12 Tackles Solo Sacks Passes Defensed FF FR Int Total Taylor 40 36 13.5 10 9 2 2 428 Allen 65 40 7.5 11 3 6 1 367 Little 55 49 13 2 7 0 0 353 Peppers 48 43 13 6 3 2 0 326 Kampman 59 43 15.5 0 3 1 0 313 Mathis 50 34 9.5 3 4 2 0 276 Hali 40 37 8 2 5 1 1 270 Okeafor 41 34 7 8.5 2 2 0 256 Schobel 35 23 14 3 3 1 0 255 Smith 50 44 7.5 3 1 2 0 244 Pryce 37 27 13 2 2 0 0 231 Anderson 23 20 12 2 4 1 0 227 Thomas 58 40 8.5 0 1 1 0 226 White 33 23 5 7 3 3 0 221 Warren 56 25 7.5 4 1 1 0 210 Williams 28 21 5 7 0 3 0 176 Freeney 26 20 5.5 3 4 0 0 176 Seymour 22 13 4 8 0 1 1 148 Abraham 15 12 4 1 4 0 0 125 Rice 14 10 2 2 4 0 0 110 __________________ I'm putting random letters here as a celebration of free speech: xigrakgrah misorojeq rkemeseit.
Posts: 141,291

01-01-2007, 10:59 PM	#50
dirk digler Please squeeze Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Clinton, MO Casino cash: $3284644	Interesting stats Rain Man and I stand corrected. Your sack stat is wrong. Tamba is 26th with 8 IMVHO it is all about sacks for DE. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 66,255

01-01-2007, 11:02 PM	#51
Rain Man NFL's #1 Ermines Fan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $3348491 VARSITY	To be honest, I was surprised at how highly Jared ranked in several categories. I think based on these, he's the best defensive lineman in the league on a playoff team. Jaws' claim isn't as surprising as it seemed before I started that. Hali's high ranking pleases me, too. Just FYI, it's possible that a lineman is left out of that analysis if he ranked in the top ten in every category, but never in the top five. I think that's unlikely to have happened, though. __________________ I'm putting random letters here as a celebration of free speech: xigrakgrah misorojeq rkemeseit.
Posts: 141,291

01-01-2007, 11:04 PM	#53
dirk digler Please squeeze Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Clinton, MO Casino cash: $3284644	You can't be D MVP if you are a DE and you don't lead your own team in sacks
Posts: 66,255

01-01-2007, 11:12 PM	#58
\|Zach\| For The Glory Of The City Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $5336768	Thanks for your work as always Kevin.
Posts: 53,435