Cardinals ***Official 2016 STL Cardinals Thread*** - Page 2

**BigRedChief** · 04:18 PM

2011 World Series Championship
2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
2015 Central Division title. Won 100 games. Lost in the NLDS.
Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
67 post season wins since 2004. 24+ wins more than any other team.

SI article on our off season, Gives us a "A". ??:
http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/02/12/win...ouis-cardinals

2015 III thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=295296
2015 II thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=293412
2015 I thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=289085

VAChief · 02-15-2016, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

What about this? Won't happen in a Matheny lineup. But still
Wong
Piscotty
Carp
Holliday
Peralta
Grichuk
Adams/Moss
Molina
Pitcher

Will probably be
Carp
Piscotty
Holliday
Peralta
Grichuk
Molina
Adams
Wong
Pitcher

I like Carp in the 3 spot, but not Holliday at 4. We don't have an ideal 4 right now but I think Grichuk and Piscotty fit better at 6 or 7 at least to start the year. I'm not as down on Big City as some, hopefully he got his ass in shape and can give us a .280, 20 hrs year which is what pre 35 year old Holliday was giving us. I think Moss will be another bust, but hopefully I'm wrong on that one.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 02-15-2016, 08:28 PM

Given the aging of the core of the team and the unsustainable results the pitching staff had last year, I think that this team could struggle to win more than 85 games. I hope I'm wrong.

I think the key to this team could be Gyorko. If he can provide the power he did in his first year in San Diego, he gives this team a legitimate power bat that they can play anywhere on the infield.

O.city · 02-15-2016, 09:02 PM

They've gotta have grichuk become a borderline star and Adams to at least be a competent slugger.

Wong
Piscotty
Carp
Holliday
Grichuk
Adams
Peralta
Yadi
P

bdj23 · 02-16-2016, 10:16 AM

USA Today has us projected to be a 97 win team this year.

I just glanced at the article, so I'm not sure how they came to this conclusion.

I get that this team is getting old, but there is still plenty of talent. I'd take the over on 85 wins all day long.

Marco Polo · 02-16-2016, 11:54 AM

97 seems like a stretch, though will gladly take it. Have Opening Day tickets this year!

oldandslow · 02-16-2016, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDj23

USA Today has us projected to be a 97 win team this year.

I just glanced at the article, so I'm not sure how they came to this conclusion.

I get that this team is getting old, but there is still plenty of talent. I'd take the over on 85 wins all day long.

Yeah, they will win over 85, not so sure about 97 tho...

But how sweet it would be if it did happen and we beat the Cubs out of the div title...

Just salivating thinking about it.

DJ's left nut · 02-16-2016, 01:38 PM

Pecota has the Cards as an 82 win team.

Seems about right to me. There's not one single thing this team will do well this year unless we somehow manage to defy the odds (and Mike Matheny) to keep the entire pitching staff healthy all season.

String luck made the Cards pitching staff look better than it was for most of 2015 and by September the cracks started to show. This year the regression is likely to be a season long thing and with an average (at best) defense, there's no reason to expect the staff to perform above it's talent.

This just isn't a very good baseball team. It's not a bad one, but 82-86 wins seems about right.

DJ's left nut · 02-16-2016, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

What about this? Won't happen in a Matheny lineup. But still
Wong
Piscotty
Carp
Holliday
Peralta
Grichuk
Adams/Moss
Molina
Pitcher

Will probably be
Carp
Piscotty
Holliday
Peralta
Grichuk
Molina
Adams
Wong
Pitcher

Both of those lineups suck.

Wong has no business on this earth batting leadoff or anywhere higher than 7 until he can prove he has any idea where the strike zone is. Molina is a shell of himself offensively and Holliday's become a 240 lb singles hitter. Peralta's not going to improve as he gets older and the Adams/Moss pairing (notice I didn't say platoon because our dumbass GM has decided to take two hitters with the same weakness and put them at 1b) is going to give us below average production for 1b.

Grichuk is Grichuk - he'll continue to get himself out against good pitching but occasionally beat up shitty hurlers. Wong has become Grichuk light.

We have two plus offensive players - Carpenter and hopefully Piscotty. There's simply not a good way to construct a lineup here - the parts don't work together because there doesn't appear to be a plan behind them. We don't have the lineup depth to use contact rates to generate runs nor do we have the speed to manufacture them or the power to put them up in bunches.

It's a bad offense.

O.city · 02-16-2016, 01:46 PM

They're depending on pretty massive internal improvements.

It's a bold strategy

DJ's left nut · 02-16-2016, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

They're depending on pretty massive internal improvements.

It's a bold strategy

"Bold strategy" = organizational cowardice.

They didn't want to sit at the big kids table so they spun it in the same way they've been spinning it for years "there was nobody better than what we have...the market is crazy".

Unfortunately for Mozeliak, Luhnow isn't around to stock his shelves any more. This emperor's got no clothes...

**BigRedChief** · 02-16-2016, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

"Bold strategy" = organizational cowardice.

They didn't want to sit at the big kids table so they spun it in the same way they've been spinning it for years "there was nobody better than what we have...the market is crazy".

Unfortunately for Mozeliak, Luhnow isn't around to stock his shelves any more. This emperor's got no clothes...

What would you have them do? By all accounts the Red Sox outbid them at the last minute. I was happy that they offered the largest contact ever for the club and beat out everyone but the Sox. It was a serious offer. Hayward obviously didn't want to be here despite being offered more money. How is that the FO's fault?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Unfortunately for Mozeliak, Luhnow isn't around to stock his shelves any more. This emperor's got no clothes...

Alex Reyes
Wong
Tilson
Wacha
Wisdom
Kelley
Cooney
Gonzalez
Kaminsky
Weaver
Flatterly
Plummer

DJ's left nut · 02-16-2016, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

What would you have them do? By all accounts the Red Sox outbid them at the last minute. I was happy that they offered the largest contact ever for the club and beat out everyone but the Sox. It was a serious offer. Hayward obviously didn't want to be here despite being offered more money. How is that the FO's fault?

Alex Reyes
Wong
Tilson
Wacha
Wisdom
Kelley
Cooney
Gonzalez
Kaminsky
Weaver
Flatterly
Plummer

I feel like you badly need to adjust your calculus rather than simply naming prospects. Tilson? Dude's a 5th OFer. Wisdom won't even see the major leagues. Kaminsky got dumped for Brandon Moss because the organization decided he was a reliever. Gonzalez's ceiling is 4th starter on a contender, Kelley hasn't shown he can hit High A pitching, let alone AA pitchers. Plummer? You mean the guy that 22 other teams passed on who promptly put up a .228 BA in rookie ball? Just exactly what the hell possessed you to conclude he is ANYTHING right now? If you're going to pull names from the draft, at least give me Bader or DeJong.

Literally every system in baseball (except the Angels) has a dozen guys like the JAGs you just named. And most of them have at least one guy like Reyes. Moreover, just how long is the SOL on touting prospects? We're still going to Wacha?

Everyone has prospects. When Luhnow was running the system, our prospects were better than the other guys. Now they're just the same lottery tickets that everyone else has. That isn't going to win you any championships.

**BigRedChief** · 02-16-2016, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I feel like you badly need to adjust your calculus rather than simply naming prospects. Tilson? Dude's a 5th OFer. Wisdom won't even see the major leagues.

Others have a different opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Kaminsky got dumped for Brandon Moss because the organization decided he was a reliever.

You told us at the time of the trade he was a possible solid #2/#3 starter. You can complain about the trade, as all of us did but your point was the drafts are a failure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Gonzalez's ceiling is 4th starter on a contender,

4th starters are getting $15 million a year now. So they have value, and it was not a failure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Literally every system in baseball (except the Angels) has a dozen guys like the JAGs you just named. And most of them have at least one guy like Reyes. Moreover, just how long is the SOL on touting prospects?

Other people and myself have a different opinion. I hope I'm right and your wrong cause I'm stuck with this team. It's a lot more fun winning.

**BigRedChief** · 03-02-2016, 02:00 PM

Well it looks like we had better hope Kolten Wong gets his OB% up cuz he's here through 2020 at least.

The deal buys out the last 3 control years. Adds 2 years with a club option for an additional year.

JUPITER, Fla. • Eager to stay with a team that nurtured him as a young player and embraced him after a difficult October 2013, second baseman Kolten Wong sought an extension with the Cardinals, even if it meant pushing off his chance to be a free agent.

The Cardinals and Wong finalized a five-year deal worth a guaranteed $25.5 million and announced the contract Wednesday morning. The contract begins with the 2016 season and extends through 2020. The contract increases in value with each year, and it also includes a club option for 2021.

**BigRedChief** · 03-07-2016, 02:44 PM

Peralta out for 2-3 months with thumb injury.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...62b594fe2.html

02-13-2016, 01:12 AM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3159627 VARSITY	*Official 2016 STL Cardinals Thread* 2011 World Series Championship 2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance. 2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship 2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance 2015 Central Division title. Won 100 games. Lost in the NLDS. Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons. 67 post season wins since 2004. 24+ wins more than any other team. SI article on our off season, Gives us a "A". ??: http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/02/12/win...ouis-cardinals 2015 III thread: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=295296 2015 II thread: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=293412 2015 I thread: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=289085 Last edited by BigRedChief; 03-30-2016 at 04:18 PM..
Posts: 79,003

02-15-2016, 08:28 PM	#17
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	Given the aging of the core of the team and the unsustainable results the pitching staff had last year, I think that this team could struggle to win more than 85 games. I hope I'm wrong. I think the key to this team could be Gyorko. If he can provide the power he did in his first year in San Diego, he gives this team a legitimate power bat that they can play anywhere on the infield.
Posts: 74,825

02-15-2016, 09:02 PM	#18
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2764064	They've gotta have grichuk become a borderline star and Adams to at least be a competent slugger. Wong Piscotty Carp Holliday Grichuk Adams Peralta Yadi P
Posts: 81,225

02-16-2016, 10:16 AM	#19
bdj23 In my youth i pray to keep Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Clown World Casino cash: $2739850	USA Today has us projected to be a 97 win team this year. I just glanced at the article, so I'm not sure how they came to this conclusion. I get that this team is getting old, but there is still plenty of talent. I'd take the over on 85 wins all day long.
Posts: 15,741

02-16-2016, 11:54 AM	#20
Marco Polo Veteran Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 41°59.4′N 87°39.6'W Casino cash: $5818908	97 seems like a stretch, though will gladly take it. Have Opening Day tickets this year!
Posts: 2,506

02-16-2016, 01:38 PM	#22
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $3019099	Pecota has the Cards as an 82 win team. Seems about right to me. There's not one single thing this team will do well this year unless we somehow manage to defy the odds (and Mike Matheny) to keep the entire pitching staff healthy all season. String luck made the Cards pitching staff look better than it was for most of 2015 and by September the cracks started to show. This year the regression is likely to be a season long thing and with an average (at best) defense, there's no reason to expect the staff to perform above it's talent. This just isn't a very good baseball team. It's not a bad one, but 82-86 wins seems about right. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 60,305

02-16-2016, 01:46 PM	#24
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2764064	They're depending on pretty massive internal improvements. It's a bold strategy
Posts: 81,225

03-02-2016, 02:00 PM	#29
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3159627 VARSITY	Well it looks like we had better hope Kolten Wong gets his OB% up cuz he's here through 2020 at least. The deal buys out the last 3 control years. Adds 2 years with a club option for an additional year. JUPITER, Fla. • Eager to stay with a team that nurtured him as a young player and embraced him after a difficult October 2013, second baseman Kolten Wong sought an extension with the Cardinals, even if it meant pushing off his chance to be a free agent. The Cardinals and Wong finalized a five-year deal worth a guaranteed $25.5 million and announced the contract Wednesday morning. The contract begins with the 2016 season and extends through 2020. The contract increases in value with each year, and it also includes a club option for 2021. __________________ Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. -YODA
Posts: 79,003

03-07-2016, 02:44 PM	#30
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3159627 VARSITY	Peralta out for 2-3 months with thumb injury. http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...62b594fe2.html __________________ Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. -YODA
Posts: 79,003