"Obesity is a disease not a decision"

[lewdog]

This is a new campaign that the American Medical Association actually declared obesity a disease! Billboards with this phrase are popping up around the country.

I've worked out for 10 years straight and I definitely sacrifice eating shit food even though I enjoy it just as much as the next guy. THIS IS A DECISION I HAVE CONSCIOUSLY MADE.

http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/da...n-disease.html

Discuss....

[loochy]

Originally Posted by NewChief

I'm with your doctor. I have a really hard time believing this. It's not that I don't believe you... I just don't see how this is even possible. Your dietitian's explanation also makes no sense, as you'd lose weight in "starvation mode" as s/he terms it.

All i ate today was a salad with ranch dressing all over it

and a bowl of oatmeal from a package with sugar and butter

and a turkey sandwich with cheese and mayonnaise on white bread

[NewChief]

Originally Posted by loochy

All i ate today was a salad with ranch dressing all over it

and a bowl of oatmeal from a package with sugar and butter

and a turkey sandwich with cheese and mayonnaise on white bread

He says he was WEIGHING his food. That indicates that he knew enough about what he was doing to realize that condiments and such contain calories. I also know that FMB is pretty into cooking, so he's knowledgeable about that sort of thing. Still, the scenario he outlines is just really bizarre and seems to defy scientific logic (as indicated by his doctor's disbelief as well).

[Frosty]

There is no such thing as the "starvation mode" as thought of by dieters. Your metabolism will drop slightly with extended calorie restriction in response to less body mass (as you lose weight) but won't drop to zero (or you would be dead).

The internet is full of people that supposedly gained weight on 500-1000 calorie diets yet no metabolic ward study (where someone else controls the food) has ever actually found one of these people.

There are several issues that make it seem like it exists. One is that food charts are frequently wrong and can be off as much as 20%. Also, it's impossible to get an 100% accurate calorie count on some things, like meat, because the actual fat content varies so much.

Also, there are short term effects that can mask your actual fat loss. Water is the worst as it can vary by several pounds a day. Women have it worst here because hormonal changes can cause them to gain a lot of water weight in a short time. You have to do it consistently for a longer period of time to get an accurate picture of what is going on. A few days won't show it and can be deceiving.

Here is an extreme example:

http://www.ncbi..nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/

A 27 year old man fasted with nothing but water and a few supplements for 382 consecutive days. He went from 456 pounds to 180 pounds. Tests during his fast showed he didn't lose all of his muscle. He also maintained at 196 pounds five years later so he didn't wreck his metabolism and gain it all right back.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Frosty

There is no such thing as the "starvation mode" as thought of by dieters. Your metabolism will drop slightly with extended calorie restriction in response to less body mass (as you lose weight) but won't drop to zero (or you would be dead).

The internet is full of people that supposedly gained weight on 500-1000 calorie diets yet no metabolic ward study (where someone else controls the food) has ever actually found one of these people.

There are several issues that make it seem like it exists. One is that food charts are frequently wrong and can be off as much as 20%. Also, it's impossible to get an 100% accurate calorie count on some things, like meat, because the actual fat content varies so much.

Also, there are short term effects that can mask your actual fat loss. Water is the worst as it can vary by several pounds a day. Women have it worst here because hormonal changes can cause them to gain a lot of water weight in a short time. You have to do it consistently for a longer period of time to get an accurate picture of what is going on. A few days won't show it and can be deceiving.

Here is an extreme example:

http://www.ncbi..nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/

A 27 year old man fasted with nothing but water and a few supplements for 382 consecutive days. He went from 456 pounds to 180 pounds. Tests during his fast showed he didn't lose all of his muscle. He also maintained at 196 pounds five years later so he didn't wreck his metabolism and gain it all right back.

Just read the first page......and it said that guy would go 37-48 days between bowel movements. ****ing hell.....

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Just read the first page......and it said that guy would go 37-48 days between bowel movements. ****ing hell.....

If you don't eat anything, there isn't much waste to poop out. I believe later in the paper that he wasn't constipated. Just no waste.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Frosty

If you don't eat anything, there isn't much waste to poop out. I believe later in the paper that he wasn't constipated. Just no waste.

Yeah....it would just be weird to go that long without taking a shit.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Yeah....it would just be weird to go that long without taking a shit.

I would fall way behind in my reading.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by Fire Me Boy!

It's possible. I've visited a dietitian in the past year, and she recommended it for me. On a personal experience level, when I was struggling (still am) and bought into the "eat less" mantra, for more than a month I ate between 500 and 800 calories a day, generally in one or two meals. And I was strictly weighing, measuring, and documenting every gram of food that I "stuffed" in my face. And over the course of that time, I lost 1 pound. The dietitian said my body was in starvation mode, so it was holding onto everything it could.

It's been very difficult. And when I talked with my doctor about it, frankly, he didn't believe me. He said "eat less."

So... I disagree that it isn't just as easy as calories in vs. calories out. Maybe it's just me, but that's my personal experience.

I watched a show from Britain online recently. They interviewed a man and a woman who couldn't lose weight. The subjects were logging their calories and only eating 700-1000 calories a day...sure enough, they were medical marvels and couldn't lose any weight despite eating like birds.

Then, the show revealed that they had hired private detectives to follow them around. Turns out that they were literally eating a thousand or more calories a day that they didn't even realize...especially when drinking.

People genuinely don't realize what we put into our bodies...even when we try to be aware of it. It's a bizarre sort of denial.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

I watched a show from Britain online recently. They interviewed a man and a woman who couldn't lose weight. The subjects were logging their calories and only eating 700-1000 calories a day...sure enough, they were medical marvels and couldn't lose any weight despite eating like birds.

Then, the show revealed that they had hired private detectives to follow them around. Turns out that they were literally eating a thousand or more calories a day that they didn't even realize...especially when drinking.

People genuinely don't realize what we put into our bodies...even when we try to be aware of it. It's a bizarre sort of denial.

Opposite end of the spectrum.....but there was a show in England where they wanted people to eat a huge amount of calories to see how quick they'd gain weight. I'm talking like 8k-10k calories a day. The test subjects complained that it was almost impossible to force themselves to eat that many calories.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Originally Posted by NewChief

He says he was WEIGHING his food. That indicates that he knew enough about what he was doing to realize that condiments and such contain calories. I also know that FMB is pretty into cooking, so he's knowledgeable about that sort of thing. Still, the scenario he outlines is just really bizarre and seems to defy scientific logic (as indicated by his doctor's disbelief as well).

It got down to that few calories because I started at 1200-1500. And since that wasn't working, I'd just "eat less." And this is why it's frustrating. Because I know what I did, and I know the results I had. And people don't believe me. I honestly felt like a fat anorexic.

[Frosty]

Just after posting on this thread, I was catching up on the comments on Ray Cronise's blog. Ray is one of the guys that helped Tim Ferriss with his 4 Hour Body book. He has some pretty interesting insight into the mechanics behind weight loss.

In the comments to his last blog entry, someone was complaining about a long term plateau that he could get through. Ray's followup was:

Good to hear from you.

So here’s an idea – drop exercise, drop all the meat and dairy (if you eat that) an do nothing but potatoes. I don’t care how many you eat – steamed, boiled, baked – no butter and keep salt to a minimum. If you’d rather do rice, (that's) okay, just don’t load it down with soy sauce and don’t go back and forth – you will be bored and if you stick with it for 2 weeks you’ll see results.

You are simply over eating. There are hundreds in the same boat. Potatoes or rice (aren't) health food necessarily, but if you can’t control eating for just two weeks – complete with parties, business dinners, or every other event we decide to make eating the centerpiece – then you’ll likely stay plateaued. You won’t loses muscle mass if you stop exercise and you will lose weight.

I have people that don’t “plateau” even after 5 months – I think plateau is a myth. It’s a story we tell ourselves to rationalize our lack of progress.

Keep us posted.

This was followed by a comment by a client of Ray's:

2) Ferriss encourages experimentation. So does Asprey. But, if you’re doing paleo and you’re still fat… well, what will it hurt to try something new for a few weeks? He’s not suggesting a potato diet is a good nutritional plan for life, just trying to rattle your cage and show you how powerful a little viewpoint change can be. Trust me, if you’re following Sisson thinking that’s the ONLY or MOST EFFECTIVE way to get ripped… you need a little viewpoint change. Cause, that’s wrong.

3) I’m a diagnosed DM2 — type 2 diabetic — and I have completely spikes WITH Ray’s endorsed dietary approach. PS: potatoes ain’t the long term plan! But, after just a few days of Ray’s crazy potato thing my glucose levels balanced in the 60 – 80mg/dL range, and that simply never happened on paleo [if] I consumed any “high carb” food, like potatoes.

When Ray told me to try this out, I figured “why not?” I thought it was crazy, but the results were undeniable.

(emphasis mine)

I've done the potato hack over four days and you lose a shit-ton of weight. I also experienced the lower blood sugar.

If someone thinks they "can't" lose weight, try this for two weeks and I bet you will (and it won't be muscle as potatoes have complete protein plus you aren't going to lose significant muscle in two weeks even if you ate nothing). It's an eye opening experience.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Opposite end of the spectrum.....but there was a show in England where they wanted people to eat a huge amount of calories to see how quick they'd gain weight. I'm talking like 8k-10k calories a day. The test subjects complained that it was almost impossible to force themselves to eat that many calories.

It IS tough. Also, not everyone will gain the same amount of weight because some people spontaneously increase movement (called NEAT) in response to increased intake.

Unfortunately, if I were to eat like that, I would slip into a coma and retain all of it.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Opposite end of the spectrum.....but there was a show in England where they wanted people to eat a huge amount of calories to see how quick they'd gain weight. I'm talking like 8k-10k calories a day. The test subjects complained that it was almost impossible to force themselves to eat that many calories.

I remember Michael Phelps talking about how he hated eating during the Olympics because it was pretty much all he did all day besides swim. He just got sick of it because he couldn't shovel bacon and eggs down his throat fast enough.

It really is incredible what our bodies can do.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

I remember Michael Phelps talking about how he hated eating during the Olympics because it was pretty much all he did all day besides swim. He just got sick of it because he couldn't shovel bacon and eggs down his throat fast enough.

It really is incredible what our bodies can do.

Yeah.....the program was on why skinny people don't get fat. These people were having to find interesting ways to get in their calories for the day....because they HAD to. They talked about putting mayonnaise on pizza to get in the extra calories.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Opposite end of the spectrum.....but there was a show in England where they wanted people to eat a huge amount of calories to see how quick they'd gain weight. I'm talking like 8k-10k calories a day. The test subjects complained that it was almost impossible to force themselves to eat that many calories.

On Fridays, I could easily do that if I wanted. I had to hold myself back last Friday and still ate 7500.