Was this off season more fun than last? - Page 5

58Forever · 04-25-2001, 08:00 AM

Let's see last year all we could talk about was Corey Dillon...

I'd say with all the wheelings and dealings and ****ing with the Rams...getting Green, Holmes, Horne, losing Grbac, McGlockton, Hasty...

This off season gave us much more to argue about...and not many rumors...I am psyched...I'm not ready for the Summer to be over, but I'm ready for some football....:cool:

Packfan · 04-26-2001, 10:44 AM

Gaz,

Do you think the Chiefs were excited when Grbac bolted and they were left with a huge void at QB? Do you think Carl and Dick planned it this way? That Grbac would suddenly bolt and they would have to give up their 12th pick for another QB. I want your opinion on this.

keg in kc · 04-26-2001, 10:49 AM

Considering that Vermeil was making statements about how great a quarterback Trent Green is at his very first press conference in Kansas City, I somehow don't think he cried too much over losing Elvis. He might have been fine if Grbac had stayed, but I don't think there's any question he has the man he wanted all along now. And I don't think [i]anyone[/i], even the most ardent Grbacker, will argue that Grbac has a quick read and release. He thrives on the play action, receivers working to get open and jump balls, not on quick strike accurate passing.

Amazing how you revise history, Deni-err, Ken.

Packfan · 04-26-2001, 10:52 AM

Mark,

Jeff George, Vinny Testeverde, Brad Johnson, Randall Cunningham, Doug Flutie, Elvis Grbac, Rich Gannon, Trent Green, Steve Buerline, Jay Fiedler, Jon Kitna, Neil Odonnel, Jeff Garcia, Kerry Collins.

All about the same caliber, all free agents at one time or another.

Carl made a cardinal sin by trading the 12th pick for a marginal QB who MOST LIKELY would have been cut (you cant have two high priced QBs on your roster very long - look at the Bills). Remember what picks that high have done for the Chiefs in the past (Gonza, DT).

The only reason to make that trade is out of desperation. If they dont make the trade and sing Buerline or the like, they probably wouldnt win as many games, BUT they would have their 12th pick and a high pick for next year. The signing of Green doesnt upgrade this team. They are still a 7 to 9 win team.

Mark M · 04-26-2001, 10:52 AM

First you rip Carl for signing Elvis and spend all of last year telling all of us how bad he sucks. Now you rip Carl for letting Elvis go.

Are you ever happy …
[IMG]http://129.116.50.162/pics/troll.jpg[/IMG]

MM
~~Thinks Packfan should copy the pic above and make it his signature.

Packfan · 04-26-2001, 10:56 AM

Mark,

I am not ripping Carl for letting him go. He had no choice. I think Elvis did the Chiefs a favor by departing (until the Chiefs gave up their 12th pick for another journey man back up). I rip Carl for not having a QB in development and not preparing for Grbac's sudden departure. Anything can happen when a guy becomes a free agent. He should have had an adequate backup, not Warren Moon and Todd Collins.

Mark M · 04-26-2001, 10:57 AM

[quote]Jeff George, Vinny Testeverde, Brad Johnson, Randall Cunningham, Doug Flutie, Elvis Grbac, Rich Gannon, Trent Green, Steve Buerline, Jay Fiedler, Jon Kitna, Neil Odonnel, Jeff Garcia, Kerry Collins.[/quote]

Impressive list. Let's see here ... there are 14 QBs listed, 5 of which were free agents [i]this year[/i] and combined they have (at my count, at least) 12 playoff wins. We all know how much emphasis you put on post-season wins, so if we would've signed any of these players you would still be carrying on your mantras of "Carl made a mistake" and "They are still a 7-9 team."

The Chiefs just can't do anything right, can they Ken?
[IMG]http://129.116.50.162/pics/troll.jpg[/IMG]

MM
~~Quickly getting tired of this.

Gaz · 04-26-2001, 10:57 AM

Packfan-
No, I do not think they were excited. I think they were surprised when Grbac made his outrageous salary demand. I think Carl was caught without a contingency plan, which is criminal neglect in my book.

I do, however, think that Grbac would have been a terrible fit with Saunders Offense and that he did us a favor by going to Baltimore. Both sides are better off as a result of that transaction [or non-transaction, as it were].

xoxo~
Gaz
Was coming to like Grbac, but not without a play action Offense.

keg in kc · 04-26-2001, 10:59 AM

If you think Green would have been cut by the Rams, then please send me your address - I have a pamphlet regarding some prime oceanfront property in beautiful, sandy, rural Missouri that I'd like to send to you a.s.a.p.

Gaz · 04-26-2001, 11:02 AM

With Warner’s continuing concussion problems, I am surprised the Rams made the trade at all.

There is no way they would have cut Green. They had the cap room to keep him and they most certainly would have kept him.

xoxo~
Gaz
Surprised, but starting to warm to the idea.

Mark M · 04-26-2001, 11:03 AM

[quote]I rip Carl for not having a QB in development[/quote]

For once, a valid criticism IMO.

Packfan · 04-26-2001, 11:04 AM

Gaz,

First round draft picks take up cap space. Prior to the Green trade, they had two of them. Plus, they were in the middle of contract negotiations with Aneass Williams. He eats up a lot of cap space too. Winning a Super Bowl inflates your cap as well.

Teams cant afford to have two high priced QBs on their roster.

WisChief · 04-26-2001, 11:05 AM

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Packfan [/i]
[B]Do you think the Chiefs were excited when Grbac bolted and they were left with a huge void at QB? Do you think Carl and Dick planned it this way? That Grbac would suddenly bolt and they would have to give up their 12th pick for another QB. [/B][/QUOTE]

Pardon me Gaz, I'm not trying to step on your feet here, but...

Yea, Ken I do think that all involved were happy that Elvis left. Think about it. How do you announce that you don't want the best QB (statistically) that KC has seen since Len Dawson. You don't - you let that QB dictate it and that is what they did. I can't pull any direct quotes, but I recall that A.S. was not overly excited about retaining Elvis and I remember VD being very ho-hum about him staying or going. You've always said that Carl couldn't bag him because he had so much invested in him - well he simply let Elvis give up and walk. Carl and Co. were NOT surprised in the least bit.

I did not think that Carl would give up the 1st without recieving a first in exchange (12 or 20 and TG), but I posted some time ago that I believe that VD is running the show personel wise more than any of us know.

KCTitus · 04-26-2001, 11:08 AM

Green had a very cap friendly contact...counting roughly 2.5M against St. Louis cap going into this year.

They could have afforded to keep him until his current contract expired, which was after the 02-03 season.

Packfan · 04-26-2001, 11:09 AM

Wis Chief,

Your memory sucks. Vermeil very clearly stated that he wanted and liked Elvis. If they didnt want him, they could have cut him a lot earlier. Elvis dictated the negotiations by demanding a 20 million dollar bonus. He wanted to get cut. I though that was pretty obvious. The Chiefs were caught with their pants down (again). They went into panic mode and became the ONLY team bidding for Trent Green. They said that the 12th pick was to high and ended up paying it. It reminds me of when Dale Carter suddenly departed. Once again, panic mode. Carl signed Carton Gray to a huge contract even though he had been cut twice the year before.

Desperate teams do desperate thing. The Chiefs are desperate.

Packfan · 04-26-2001, 11:11 AM

Titus,

2.5 million is hardly "cap friendly". You must think that the Rams two first round picks and Aneass Williams were going to play for free.

Not surprised by your post.

04-26-2001, 10:44 AM	#61
Packfan Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI, Door Casino cash: $10004900	Gaz, Do you think the Chiefs were excited when Grbac bolted and they were left with a huge void at QB? Do you think Carl and Dick planned it this way? That Grbac would suddenly bolt and they would have to give up their 12th pick for another QB. I want your opinion on this. __________________ Ken Dienberg
Posts: 938

04-26-2001, 10:49 AM	#62
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Considering that Vermeil was making statements about how great a quarterback Trent Green is at his very first press conference in Kansas City, I somehow don't think he cried too much over losing Elvis. He might have been fine if Grbac had stayed, but I don't think there's any question he has the man he wanted all along now. And I don't think [i]anyone[/i], even the most ardent Grbacker, will argue that Grbac has a quick read and release. He thrives on the play action, receivers working to get open and jump balls, not on quick strike accurate passing. Amazing how you revise history, Deni-err, Ken.
Posts: 58,682

04-26-2001, 10:52 AM	#63
Packfan Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI, Door Casino cash: $10004900	Mark, Jeff George, Vinny Testeverde, Brad Johnson, Randall Cunningham, Doug Flutie, Elvis Grbac, Rich Gannon, Trent Green, Steve Buerline, Jay Fiedler, Jon Kitna, Neil Odonnel, Jeff Garcia, Kerry Collins. All about the same caliber, all free agents at one time or another. Carl made a cardinal sin by trading the 12th pick for a marginal QB who MOST LIKELY would have been cut (you cant have two high priced QBs on your roster very long - look at the Bills). Remember what picks that high have done for the Chiefs in the past (Gonza, DT). The only reason to make that trade is out of desperation. If they dont make the trade and sing Buerline or the like, they probably wouldnt win as many games, BUT they would have their 12th pick and a high pick for next year. The signing of Green doesnt upgrade this team. They are still a 7 to 9 win team. __________________ Ken Dienberg
Posts: 938

04-26-2001, 10:52 AM	#64
Mark M What time is it? Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: You tell me ... Casino cash: $9884900	Well which is it? First you rip Carl for signing Elvis and spend all of last year telling all of us how bad he sucks. Now you rip Carl for letting Elvis go. Are you ever happy … [IMG]http://129.116.50.162/pics/troll.jpg[/IMG] MM ~~Thinks Packfan should copy the pic above and make it his signature. __________________ ChiefsPlanet -- n. The place where brilliant minds assemble to willfully pool ignorance with questionable logic in order to reach absurd conclusions.
Posts: 4,687

04-26-2001, 10:56 AM	#65
Packfan Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI, Door Casino cash: $10004900	Mark, I am not ripping Carl for letting him go. He had no choice. I think Elvis did the Chiefs a favor by departing (until the Chiefs gave up their 12th pick for another journey man back up). I rip Carl for not having a QB in development and not preparing for Grbac's sudden departure. Anything can happen when a guy becomes a free agent. He should have had an adequate backup, not Warren Moon and Todd Collins. __________________ Ken Dienberg
Posts: 938

04-25-2001, 08:00 AM
58Forever It's dejavu all over again! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: at home in my own chair Casino cash: $10004900	Let's see last year all we could talk about was Corey Dillon... I'd say with all the wheelings and dealings and ****ing with the Rams...getting Green, Holmes, Horne, losing Grbac, McGlockton, Hasty... This off season gave us much more to argue about...and not many rumors...I am psyched...I'm not ready for the Summer to be over, but I'm ready for some football....:cool:
Posts: 1,828

04-26-2001, 10:57 AM	#66
Mark M What time is it? Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: You tell me ... Casino cash: $9884900	[quote]Jeff George, Vinny Testeverde, Brad Johnson, Randall Cunningham, Doug Flutie, Elvis Grbac, Rich Gannon, Trent Green, Steve Buerline, Jay Fiedler, Jon Kitna, Neil Odonnel, Jeff Garcia, Kerry Collins.[/quote] Impressive list. Let's see here ... there are 14 QBs listed, 5 of which were free agents [i]this year[/i] and combined they have (at my count, at least) 12 playoff wins. We all know how much emphasis you put on post-season wins, so if we would've signed any of these players you would still be carrying on your mantras of "Carl made a mistake" and "They are still a 7-9 team." The Chiefs just can't do anything right, can they Ken? [IMG]http://129.116.50.162/pics/troll.jpg[/IMG] MM ~~Quickly getting tired of this. __________________ ChiefsPlanet -- n. The place where brilliant minds assemble to willfully pool ignorance with questionable logic in order to reach absurd conclusions.
Posts: 4,687

04-26-2001, 10:57 AM	#67
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	serendipity is a good thing Packfan- No, I do not think they were excited. I think they were surprised when Grbac made his outrageous salary demand. I think Carl was caught without a contingency plan, which is criminal neglect in my book. I do, however, think that Grbac would have been a terrible fit with Saunders Offense and that he did us a favor by going to Baltimore. Both sides are better off as a result of that transaction [or non-transaction, as it were]. xoxo~ Gaz Was coming to like Grbac, but not without a play action Offense.
Posts: 5,911

04-26-2001, 10:59 AM	#68
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	If you think Green would have been cut by the Rams, then please send me your address - I have a pamphlet regarding some prime oceanfront property in beautiful, sandy, rural Missouri that I'd like to send to you a.s.a.p.
Posts: 58,682

04-26-2001, 11:02 AM	#69
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	are the Rams that stupid? With Warner’s continuing concussion problems, I am surprised the Rams made the trade at all. There is no way they would have cut Green. They had the cap room to keep him and they most certainly would have kept him. xoxo~ Gaz Surprised, but starting to warm to the idea.
Posts: 5,911

04-26-2001, 11:03 AM	#70
Mark M What time is it? Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: You tell me ... Casino cash: $9884900	[quote]I rip Carl for not having a QB in development[/quote] For once, a valid criticism IMO. __________________ ChiefsPlanet -- n. The place where brilliant minds assemble to willfully pool ignorance with questionable logic in order to reach absurd conclusions.
Posts: 4,687

04-26-2001, 11:04 AM	#71
Packfan Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI, Door Casino cash: $10004900	Gaz, First round draft picks take up cap space. Prior to the Green trade, they had two of them. Plus, they were in the middle of contract negotiations with Aneass Williams. He eats up a lot of cap space too. Winning a Super Bowl inflates your cap as well. Teams cant afford to have two high priced QBs on their roster. __________________ Ken Dienberg
Posts: 938

04-26-2001, 11:05 AM	#72
WisChief GO 'NOLES! Join Date: Oct 2000 Casino cash: $10005400	[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Packfan [/i] [B]Do you think the Chiefs were excited when Grbac bolted and they were left with a huge void at QB? Do you think Carl and Dick planned it this way? That Grbac would suddenly bolt and they would have to give up their 12th pick for another QB. [/B][/QUOTE] Pardon me Gaz, I'm not trying to step on your feet here, but... Yea, Ken I do think that all involved were happy that Elvis left. Think about it. How do you announce that you don't want the best QB (statistically) that KC has seen since Len Dawson. You don't - you let that QB dictate it and that is what they did. I can't pull any direct quotes, but I recall that A.S. was not overly excited about retaining Elvis and I remember VD being very ho-hum about him staying or going. You've always said that Carl couldn't bag him because he had so much invested in him - well he simply let Elvis give up and walk. Carl and Co. were NOT surprised in the least bit. I did not think that Carl would give up the 1st without recieving a first in exchange (12 or 20 and TG), but I posted some time ago that I believe that VD is running the show personel wise more than any of us know.
Posts: 918

04-26-2001, 11:08 AM	#73
KCTitus Archivist Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ethernet Casino cash: $9892732	Green had a very cap friendly contact...counting roughly 2.5M against St. Louis cap going into this year. They could have afforded to keep him until his current contract expired, which was after the 02-03 season.
Posts: 26,193

04-26-2001, 11:09 AM	#74
Packfan Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI, Door Casino cash: $10004900	Wis Chief, Your memory sucks. Vermeil very clearly stated that he wanted and liked Elvis. If they didnt want him, they could have cut him a lot earlier. Elvis dictated the negotiations by demanding a 20 million dollar bonus. He wanted to get cut. I though that was pretty obvious. The Chiefs were caught with their pants down (again). They went into panic mode and became the ONLY team bidding for Trent Green. They said that the 12th pick was to high and ended up paying it. It reminds me of when Dale Carter suddenly departed. Once again, panic mode. Carl signed Carton Gray to a huge contract even though he had been cut twice the year before. Desperate teams do desperate thing. The Chiefs are desperate. __________________ Ken Dienberg
Posts: 938

04-26-2001, 11:11 AM	#75
Packfan Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI, Door Casino cash: $10004900	Titus, 2.5 million is hardly "cap friendly". You must think that the Rams two first round picks and Aneass Williams were going to play for free. Not surprised by your post. __________________ Ken Dienberg
Posts: 938