ZMA is the shit

[seclark]

Originally Posted by Buck

A few days ago when I woke up, I remembered my dream completely. I felt like I had control over what I did in the dream. Last night I decided to test it and I told myself I'm going to dream about trains. It sorta worked because I ended up riding a train from Philly to LA in my dream. I don't know. Its weird. I remember so much detail from my dreams since I've started taking it. Very vivid stuff.

so, you're taking this as some kind of sleep aid? (sorry if i sound like donger)
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[Buck]

Originally Posted by seclark

so, you're taking this as some kind of sleep aid? (sorry if i sound like donger)
sec

It was recommended to me for muscle recovery (by way of better sleep at night). Nearly every review of it talks about awesome sleep. Check it out.

[Saulbadguy]

Originally Posted by Buck

It was recommended to me for muscle recovery (by way of better sleep at night). Nearly every review of it talks about awesome sleep. Check it out.

If you think and believe something is going to make you sleep better it's going to make you sleep better.

[007]

Originally Posted by Saulbadguy

If you think and believe something is going to make you sleep better it's going to make you sleep better.

I guess I don't believe anything will make me sleep better then, because nothing works with any success.

[Buck]

Originally Posted by Saulbadguy

If you think and believe something is going to make you sleep better it's going to make you sleep better.

Not really.

[seclark]

Originally Posted by Buck

It was recommended to me for muscle recovery (by way of better sleep at night). Nearly every review of it talks about awesome sleep. Check it out.

don't think so, thanks.
my sleep is ****ed up enough w/dreams, walking and talking. if i take something, i want it to knock me out. no dreams at all(that i can remember).
it just interests me when i hear of people talking about their dreams.

like sbg said, the mind is a powerful entity.
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[WV]

Originally Posted by seclark

don't think so, thanks.
my sleep is ****ed up enough w/dreams, walking and talking. if i take something, i want it to knock me out. no dreams at all(that i can remember).
it just interests me when i hear of people talking about their dreams.

like sbg said, the mind is a powerful entity.
sec

Entertainment for the kids!

[FAX]

Originally Posted by seclark

don't think so, thanks.
my sleep is ****ed up enough w/dreams, walking and talking. if i take something, i want it to knock me out. no dreams at all(that i can remember).
it just interests me when i hear of people talking about their dreams.

like sbg said, the mind is a powerful entity.
sec

Are you okay, Mr. seclark? I mean, this is like the longest post you've ever made in your whole life. Flat gabby today.

By the way, remember her? Ol' Flat Gabby? Quite a girl ...

FAX

[Fish]

This thread could use some Science.....

First off... most of the "Supplements" available do not do what you think they do. Supplements by and large are simply snake oil meant to take your money while giving you the psychologically pleasing feeling of helping yourself. There are some things for sure that actually have affects on your body that make it worth it, as you'll see from the graphic below.

I know there will be many posts saying BS, it worked for me and this guy I know. But generally all these ingredients have been studied to the point that we can prove exactly what it does and doesn't do. If you're convinced it's working for you, then great. That feeling of "Something is making me feel better" is powerful in its own right. Just know that anything labeled "Supplement" has no proof of whatever claim it makes. If there were any proof, it wouldn't need to be labeled as a supplement. And remember that supplements themselves are the least efficient way to introduce those ingredients into your body. Supplements generally are drastically less effective than ingesting actual foods containing those ingredients. Taking a Vitamin C pill is infinitely less effective than eating a couple oranges, etc. Whenever possible, go for the source of whatever ingredient you're wanting.

Here's a very handy graph, showing where the majority of supplements stack up. Note the "Worth it" line. Essentially everything under that isn't worth the money spent on the product. This graphic is dynamically updated and pulls info from the giant table of documentation at the link at the bottom of this post.

Unfortunately, the 3 ingredients in ZMA aren't even over the "Worth it" line.



And here's the link with all the information used to construct this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_GB#gid=0

That includes links to case studies and actual scientific information from sources that are not trying to sell you what they're recommending.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

That includes links to case studies and actual scientific information from sources that are not trying to sell you what they're recommending.

They have creatine listed as a "cognition" supplement.

???

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Brock

They have creatine listed as a "cognition" supplement.

???

There's lots of misinformation on Creatine. It's generally sold for athletic and endurance purposes, but actually there's less proof of that effect than all the other researched uses for Creatine.

Creatine is thought to improve strength, increase lean muscle mass, and help the muscles recover more quickly during exercise. This muscular boost may help athletes achieve bursts of speed and energy, especially during short bouts of high-intensity activities such as weight lifting or sprinting. However, scientific research on creatine has been mixed. Although some studies have found that it does help improve performance during short periods of athletic activity, there is no evidence that creatine helps with endurance sports. Research also shows that not everyone's muscles respond to creatine; some people who use it see no benefit.

Despite the popularity of creatine among young people, there has been very little research conducted in children under age 18. Of those studies, a few have suggested a positive effect but the overall evidence is inconclusive.

Just because creatine is natural, doesn't necessarily mean that it is safe. Supplements aren't held to the same standards by the FDA as medications, which means you can't always know exactly what's in your supplement, or in what amounts.

Researchers still don't know the long-term effects of taking creatine supplements, especially in young people. Adolescents who take creatine often do so without their doctor's advice, which can cause them to take more than the recommended dose.

Although most healthy people can take it with no problem, creatine can, in rare cases, have adverse effects, particularly when used in excess. Side effects can include:

Weight gain
Anxiety
Breathing difficulty
Diarrhea
Fatigue
Fever
Headache
Kidney problems
Nausea, vomiting
Rash
Stomach upset

Certain drugs, including diabetes medications, acetaminophen, and diuretics, can have dangerous interactions with creatine. Taking the stimulants caffeine and ephedra with creatine can increase the risk of side effects.

http://men.webmd.com/creatine

[loochy]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

This thread could use some Science.....

First off... most of the "Supplements" available do not do what you think they do. Supplements by and large are simply snake oil meant to take your money while giving you the psychologically pleasing feeling of helping yourself. There are some things for sure that actually have affects on your body that make it worth it, as you'll see from the graphic below.

I know there will be many posts saying BS, it worked for me and this guy I know. But generally all these ingredients have been studied to the point that we can prove exactly what it does and doesn't do. If you're convinced it's working for you, then great. That feeling of "Something is making me feel better" is powerful in its own right. Just know that anything labeled "Supplement" has no proof of whatever claim it makes. If there were any proof, it wouldn't need to be labeled as a supplement. And remember that supplements themselves are the least efficient way to introduce those ingredients into your body. Supplements generally are drastically less effective than ingesting actual foods containing those ingredients. Taking a Vitamin C pill is infinitely less effective than eating a couple oranges, etc. Whenever possible, go for the source of whatever ingredient you're wanting.

Here's a very handy graph, showing where the majority of supplements stack up. Note the "Worth it" line. Essentially everything under that isn't worth the money spent on the product. This graphic is dynamically updated and pulls info from the giant table of documentation at the link at the bottom of this post.

Unfortunately, the 3 ingredients in ZMA aren't even over the "Worth it" line.



And here's the link with all the information used to construct this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_GB#gid=0

That includes links to case studies and actual scientific information from sources that are not trying to sell you what they're recommending.

Yeah, because you don't need vitamins? wtf

[Fish]

Originally Posted by loochy

Yeah, because you don't need vitamins? wtf

Who said you don't need vitamins?

You don't need vitamin supplements. You certainly need vitamins. And you get them from the foods you eat. Vitamin supplements are completely unnecessary for the most part.

[Buck]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

This thread could use some Science.....

First off... most of the "Supplements" available do not do what you think they do. Supplements by and large are simply snake oil meant to take your money while giving you the psychologically pleasing feeling of helping yourself. There are some things for sure that actually have affects on your body that make it worth it, as you'll see from the graphic below.

I know there will be many posts saying BS, it worked for me and this guy I know. But generally all these ingredients have been studied to the point that we can prove exactly what it does and doesn't do. If you're convinced it's working for you, then great. That feeling of "Something is making me feel better" is powerful in its own right. Just know that anything labeled "Supplement" has no proof of whatever claim it makes. If there were any proof, it wouldn't need to be labeled as a supplement. And remember that supplements themselves are the least efficient way to introduce those ingredients into your body. Supplements generally are drastically less effective than ingesting actual foods containing those ingredients. Taking a Vitamin C pill is infinitely less effective than eating a couple oranges, etc. Whenever possible, go for the source of whatever ingredient you're wanting.

Here's a very handy graph, showing where the majority of supplements stack up. Note the "Worth it" line. Essentially everything under that isn't worth the money spent on the product. This graphic is dynamically updated and pulls info from the giant table of documentation at the link at the bottom of this post.

Unfortunately, the 3 ingredients in ZMA aren't even over the "Worth it" line.



And here's the link with all the information used to construct this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_GB#gid=0

That includes links to case studies and actual scientific information from sources that are not trying to sell you what they're recommending.

Yes. This used select studies to create the chart. I'm sure you could create a chart with everything flipped if you found the right studies.

First hand though, ZMA has made me feel better than pretty much any other supplement. That's pretty much all I can go off of.

You probably don't even like trains.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Buck

Yes. This used select studies to create the chart. I'm sure you could create a chart with everything flipped if you found the right studies.

First hand though, ZMA has made me feel better than pretty much any other supplement. That's pretty much all I can go off of.

You probably don't even like trains.

No, for the most part this uses studies from NCBI, The National Center for Biotechnology Information, and NLM the US National Library of Medicine. Which I believe is the most unbiased and truthful sources possible for this kind of info.

**** trains.