Discussing the 1st rd: why Dee Ford was the best option - Page 5

RunKC · 05-11-2014, 03:08 PM

And here is why. Just rumblings from what we have heard.

Darqueze Dennard CB Michigan State-Nice product, but not better than what Dee Ford could bring.
Dennard is slow and he has short arms. He ran a 4.51 at the combine, which is not what we need. Take a look at Sean Smith and Brandon Flowers. They both ran in that 4.5 range and look at what happened to them. Remember Jacoby Ford owning Flowers a few years ago due to speed? Remember Eric Decker owning Flowers deep at Arrowhead? Remember DeAndre Hopkins owning Sean Smith at Arrowhead on that deep TD?

That's speed. It's not hard to see. Phillip Gaines has all the physical aspects, along with good production. Tackling is not a huge problem IMO. It can be taught, which he's in a great position to learn as the #4 CB for this year.
What can't be taught is....speed.

Marqise Lee WR USC-This guys hands have started to get bad. Real bad. 12% drop rate? I think people are already pissed off enough seeing Donnie Avery drop passes.
As far as pure playmaking ability, do you see Lee as a better playmaker than De'Anthony Thomas? I don't think so. I think they at the least very close, but Thomas has more speed and range due to ST's. He's way better there.

I can totally see why they passed.

Xavier Su'a-Filo G UCLA-Do we even need to talk about this? Was this not the one pick nobody wanted to see? He could have started day 1, which I admit would have been nice.
This could be a testament to how Reid feels about Rishaw Johnson. Why should we not trust Reid and Dorsey here? Schwartz was a great pickup, Parker was, Cooper was, Abdullah was, McGrath was. Did they not earn your trust for a guy like Rishaw Johnson, who coincidentally looked very good in SD?

I do like the Zach Fulton pick later. He's experienced and needs a little work, but in a year or two I feel he's starting over Jeff Allen.

Derek Carr QB Fresno State-I can't get over how pathetic this guys feet are and how awful he was when pressured. He gets scared. He panics. We're going to kick his ass with our pass rush. Did I mention he made a ton of WTF throws?
Alex Smith is the QB for the next 3 years at the very least.

As for Johnny Football,I would have loved him on this team. I'd take him over Dee Ford every day. But Alex Smith is their guy. If they really wanted him they would have got him. Moving up 1 pick would not have cost much.

Jason Verrett CB TCU-He's got playmaking ability, but he is definitely short which is a no-no for Dorsey.
Keep in mind that everybody is copying Seattle's draft strategy of bigger, longer corners except for 2 teams: the Chiefs and Packers. Why? Because they all came from Green Bay.

Jimmie Ward S NIU-The one guy I think we could have taken over Ford who was picked after us. Love what he does, but let's consider something here.

This pass rush is going to be elite next year IMO. That's going to help our DB's out drastically. Also, do we have Jimmie Ward already? Commings was a very good DB in college, but didn't have the footwork to play CB, which makes him excellent at Safety.
He's faster than Ward and just as physical with a long, big body frame (sound familiar?). I can see why they passed. They love what Commings can bring.

Bottomline:I think people love the energy and personality Dee Ford will bring. They like his confidence and swagger as well. This team needs that.

His first step is very "DT-esque". It's fast, just like Von Miller as well. He's got the production. He played fantastic ball against the best teams in the biggest moments.

This move makes so much sense in so many ways. I love Tamba. He's going to be one of my favorite Chiefs defenders of all-time, but let's look at reality. He's 31 this year. Next offseason we gain $9 million dollars by cutting him.
This is what teams like the Steelers do. They realize when their good players are nearing the end and they draft their replacements.

Tamba is going to start slowly declining in 2015 when he's 32. He might get some sacks, but you'll be able to tell. He definitely got tired the last half of the season.

This defense, and pass rush specifically, might be the best we've ever seen as fans next year. The overall amount of capable pass rushers could be better than the 90's, and that says a lot.
I can't wait to see what Dee Ford will do. I don't think 6 or 7 sacks is that big of a stretch considering we're going to play the nickel a ton of the time.

**Dave Lane** · 05-15-2014, 08:39 AM

Just checking in here...

Are we at RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH or at the ACCEPTANCE & HOPE stage?

**Dave Lane** · 05-15-2014, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

sacc's dream draft would like this:

1. Mazlowski
2. Mazlowski
3. Mazlowski
4. Mazlowski
5. Mazlowski
6. Mazlowski
7. Mazlowski

over-achieving schlub who puts up meaningless numbers and isn't in any way a game changer...aka a guard

As a very slight defense of Mazlowski, once he went down our defense folded like a cheap suit. Before then it was just horrid. Sac however I have no defense for. However I was just in Utah and I can see why he would be insane.

Direckshun · 05-15-2014, 05:30 PM

I think he ends up being Elvis Dumervil.

O.city · 05-15-2014, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I think he ends up being Elvis Dumervil.

Is that bad?

Direckshun · 05-15-2014, 06:45 PM

It's great, if it works out. He's been a boom to every defense he's played on.

There just aren't a lot of Dumervils in the NFL, because their bodytype and skillset don't translate to the NFL very well. It's harder for somebody who look and play like Dumervil to succeed than, say, someone who looks and plays like Houston.

But I think Ford very much can be Dumervil, with all his strengths and weaknesses. If he lands, he's a perfect player for that Hali role in our D. If he lands.

RunKC · 05-16-2014, 08:52 AM

Ford fits the mold of every draft pick Dorsey wants.

He gets high potential unfinished products whose negatives are very fixable. Fisher, Kelce, Ford and Gaines all have massive potential, but they have minor problems such as strength and form (aka technique, tackling, overpursing and missing the run game).

He's relying on the coaching staff to make these picks explode. It's kinda like Poe, except these guys have all had way more production to their name.

O.city · 05-16-2014, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

Ford fits the mold of every draft pick Dorsey wants.

He gets high potential unfinished products whose negatives are very fixable. Fisher, Kelce, Ford and Gaines all have massive potential, but they have minor problems such as strength and form (aka technique, tackling, overpursing and missing the run game).

He's relying on the coaching staff to make these picks explode. It's kinda like Poe, except these guys have all had way more production to their name.

All the potential in the world doesn't matter if they're in the cold tub like last years draft class.

RunKC · 05-16-2014, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

All the potential in the world doesn't matter if they're in the cold tub like last years draft class.

I agree, but this goes hand in hand with some of these guys. For example, Fisher putting muscle on his frame should help protect him from injury.

306 lbs is too small for a guy that's 6'7". I think him moving that to 320-325 with more muscle on his frame will make a big difference with his struggles from last year.

We'll see though

O.city · 05-16-2014, 09:44 AM

It's more about leverage for fisher. All the muscle he can add won't make a difference if he's always on his heels.

It's also a little concerning when every pick you make you think "get him in our program and put weight in him".

Naturally, these guys are all going to put muscle in being in a strength program professionally though so I don't think it's really a huge deal.

I like that we are picking big fast hyper athletic guys instead of Boy Scouts who were team captains.

Size does matter to a degree, but you can't teach athleticism ad instincts

planetdoc · 05-16-2014, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I think he ends up being Elvis Dumervil.

Dumerville is far more squatty than Dee Ford.
Dumerville is 5'11'', and 260lbs.

Dee Ford 6'2.1''
Hali 6'3''
khalil mack 6'2.5''
robert mathis 6'2''
Junior Galette 6'2''
Olivier Vernon 6'2''
charles johnson 6'2''
Jerry Hughes 6'2''
shaun phillips 6'3''
Suggs 6'3''
Ahmad Brooks 6'3''
Trent Cole 6'3''
Jason Worilds 6'2''
Clay Mathews 6'3''
Lavonte David 6'1''

OldSchool · 05-16-2014, 01:19 PM

Yeah, I see Ford as much more of a Mathis/Freeney-type of a pass rusher.

Difference between Ford and Mathis though is that Mathis has 34 1/4" arms while Ford's are only 32 7/8" long. Ford basically has the minimum length that you need to be good.

Saccopoo · 05-16-2014, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

It's pretty obvious that Dee Ford was not a finished product last year and he kept getting better and better as time went on.
You can't really ask for much from him in terms of coverage bc he rarely did that at Auburn.
Looking at his tape, his run stopping problems seem to be bc he is over pursuing. This would be coachable and I bet that's the thought behind this.
He still needs to get stronger, but a year in an nfl weight training program should help.

Dorsey is picking players based on potential and he's starting them off slow. He did it with Fisher and now he's doing it with Ford. Let's see what happens.

Dude...he threw Fisher to the wolves. Started him out at RT from day one. He will have the luxury of starting out Ford slow as there are two studs incumbents at both OLB spots. He'll probably see some snaps here and there, but his lion's share of work will most likely be on special teams - at least to start.

At least to me, that a steep price to pay for a first round pick considering the glaring, obvious holes at WR, OL and S.

RunKC · 05-17-2014, 04:06 PM

Ford will play in the wide 9 a lot and in the nickel, which we played the entire playoff game. I see them doing that against pure passing teams, including the 2 in our division.

I bet Ford and Gaines get a lot of PT this year.

**The Franchise** · 05-19-2014, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Dude...he threw Fisher to the wolves. Started him out at RT from day one. He will have the luxury of starting out Ford slow as there are two studs incumbents at both OLB spots. He'll probably see some snaps here and there, but his lion's share of work will most likely be on special teams - at least to start.

At least to me, that a steep price to pay for a first round pick considering the glaring, obvious holes at WR, OL and S.

So we should have reached on who? Jimmie Ward was realistically the only option at 23 and they weren't taking him because they view Commings and Abdullah as competent starters.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 05-19-2014, 03:43 PM

I love the pick.

05-11-2014, 03:08 PM
RunKC Andy Reid Supporter Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $2129611	Discussing the 1st rd: why Dee Ford was the best option And here is why. Just rumblings from what we have heard. Darqueze Dennard CB Michigan State-Nice product, but not better than what Dee Ford could bring. Dennard is slow and he has short arms. He ran a 4.51 at the combine, which is not what we need. Take a look at Sean Smith and Brandon Flowers. They both ran in that 4.5 range and look at what happened to them. Remember Jacoby Ford owning Flowers a few years ago due to speed? Remember Eric Decker owning Flowers deep at Arrowhead? Remember DeAndre Hopkins owning Sean Smith at Arrowhead on that deep TD? That's speed. It's not hard to see. Phillip Gaines has all the physical aspects, along with good production. Tackling is not a huge problem IMO. It can be taught, which he's in a great position to learn as the #4 CB for this year. What can't be taught is....speed. Marqise Lee WR USC-This guys hands have started to get bad. Real bad. 12% drop rate? I think people are already pissed off enough seeing Donnie Avery drop passes. As far as pure playmaking ability, do you see Lee as a better playmaker than De'Anthony Thomas? I don't think so. I think they at the least very close, but Thomas has more speed and range due to ST's. He's way better there. I can totally see why they passed. Xavier Su'a-Filo G UCLA-Do we even need to talk about this? Was this not the one pick nobody wanted to see? He could have started day 1, which I admit would have been nice. This could be a testament to how Reid feels about Rishaw Johnson. Why should we not trust Reid and Dorsey here? Schwartz was a great pickup, Parker was, Cooper was, Abdullah was, McGrath was. Did they not earn your trust for a guy like Rishaw Johnson, who coincidentally looked very good in SD? I do like the Zach Fulton pick later. He's experienced and needs a little work, but in a year or two I feel he's starting over Jeff Allen. Derek Carr QB Fresno State-I can't get over how pathetic this guys feet are and how awful he was when pressured. He gets scared. He panics. We're going to kick his ass with our pass rush. Did I mention he made a ton of WTF throws? Alex Smith is the QB for the next 3 years at the very least. As for Johnny Football,I would have loved him on this team. I'd take him over Dee Ford every day. But Alex Smith is their guy. If they really wanted him they would have got him. Moving up 1 pick would not have cost much. Jason Verrett CB TCU-He's got playmaking ability, but he is definitely short which is a no-no for Dorsey. Keep in mind that everybody is copying Seattle's draft strategy of bigger, longer corners except for 2 teams: the Chiefs and Packers. Why? Because they all came from Green Bay. Jimmie Ward S NIU-The one guy I think we could have taken over Ford who was picked after us. Love what he does, but let's consider something here. This pass rush is going to be elite next year IMO. That's going to help our DB's out drastically. Also, do we have Jimmie Ward already? Commings was a very good DB in college, but didn't have the footwork to play CB, which makes him excellent at Safety. He's faster than Ward and just as physical with a long, big body frame (sound familiar?). I can see why they passed. They love what Commings can bring. Bottomline:I think people love the energy and personality Dee Ford will bring. They like his confidence and swagger as well. This team needs that. His first step is very "DT-esque". It's fast, just like Von Miller as well. He's got the production. He played fantastic ball against the best teams in the biggest moments. This move makes so much sense in so many ways. I love Tamba. He's going to be one of my favorite Chiefs defenders of all-time, but let's look at reality. He's 31 this year. Next offseason we gain $9 million dollars by cutting him. This is what teams like the Steelers do. They realize when their good players are nearing the end and they draft their replacements. Tamba is going to start slowly declining in 2015 when he's 32. He might get some sacks, but you'll be able to tell. He definitely got tired the last half of the season. This defense, and pass rush specifically, might be the best we've ever seen as fans next year. The overall amount of capable pass rushers could be better than the 90's, and that says a lot. I can't wait to see what Dee Ford will do. I don't think 6 or 7 sacks is that big of a stretch considering we're going to play the nickel a ton of the time.
Posts: 46,196

05-15-2014, 08:39 AM	#61
Dave Lane Space Cadet and Aczabel Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Kanab, UT, USA Casino cash: $9333275 VARSITY	Just checking in here... Are we at RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH or at the ACCEPTANCE & HOPE stage? __________________ Thanks, Trump for the civics lesson. We are learning so much about RICO, espionage, sedition, impeachment, the 25th Amendment, order of succession, nepotism, separation of powers, 1st Amendment, obstruction of justice, the emoluments clause, conflicts of interest, collusion, sanctions, oligarchs, money laundering and so much more.
Posts: 40,584

05-15-2014, 05:30 PM	#63
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $4273447	I think he ends up being Elvis Dumervil.
Posts: 59,295

05-15-2014, 06:45 PM	#65
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $4273447	It's great, if it works out. He's been a boom to every defense he's played on. There just aren't a lot of Dumervils in the NFL, because their bodytype and skillset don't translate to the NFL very well. It's harder for somebody who look and play like Dumervil to succeed than, say, someone who looks and plays like Houston. But I think Ford very much can be Dumervil, with all his strengths and weaknesses. If he lands, he's a perfect player for that Hali role in our D. If he lands.
Posts: 59,295

05-16-2014, 08:52 AM	#66
RunKC Andy Reid Supporter Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $2129611	Ford fits the mold of every draft pick Dorsey wants. He gets high potential unfinished products whose negatives are very fixable. Fisher, Kelce, Ford and Gaines all have massive potential, but they have minor problems such as strength and form (aka technique, tackling, overpursing and missing the run game). He's relying on the coaching staff to make these picks explode. It's kinda like Poe, except these guys have all had way more production to their name. __________________ Mike Greenberg@Espngreeny I can’t fathom what it must be like to be a fan of the #Chiefs. Adopt a Chief: Noah Gray
Posts: 46,196

05-16-2014, 09:44 AM	#69
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2624064	It's more about leverage for fisher. All the muscle he can add won't make a difference if he's always on his heels. It's also a little concerning when every pick you make you think "get him in our program and put weight in him". Naturally, these guys are all going to put muscle in being in a strength program professionally though so I don't think it's really a huge deal. I like that we are picking big fast hyper athletic guys instead of Boy Scouts who were team captains. Size does matter to a degree, but you can't teach athleticism ad instincts
Posts: 81,336

05-16-2014, 01:19 PM	#71
OldSchool MVP Join Date: Sep 2013 Casino cash: $10035212	Yeah, I see Ford as much more of a Mathis/Freeney-type of a pass rusher. Difference between Ford and Mathis though is that Mathis has 34 1/4" arms while Ford's are only 32 7/8" long. Ford basically has the minimum length that you need to be good. Last edited by OldSchool; 05-16-2014 at 01:54 PM..
Posts: 12,727

05-17-2014, 04:06 PM	#73
RunKC Andy Reid Supporter Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $2129611	Ford will play in the wide 9 a lot and in the nickel, which we played the entire playoff game. I see them doing that against pure passing teams, including the 2 in our division. I bet Ford and Gaines get a lot of PT this year. __________________ Mike Greenberg@Espngreeny I can’t fathom what it must be like to be a fan of the #Chiefs. Adopt a Chief: Noah Gray
Posts: 46,196

05-19-2014, 03:43 PM	#75
Sweet Daddy Hate Unsparing Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $10004900	I love the pick.
Posts: 77,135