Chiefs What The Niners did with the Picks from the AS trade - Page 5

DTLB58 · 01:14 AM

From MMQB
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/05/12/the-20...with-a-kiss/3/

Now that we see the final product of what the Niners gave away and received in the Alex Smith trade from 14 months ago, we can judge one thing about San Francisco GM Trent Baalke: He is calculating, he is fast, and he knows how to set up his team for the future.

The result, first, of the 2013 trade of Smith to Kansas City for a pair of second-round draft picks. The two second-round picks, or their tributaries, were traded a total of five times over the past two drafts, and here’s how it shook out after this year’s draft.

Surrendered
QB Alex Smith

Acquired*
DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013)
LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013)
LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014)
RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014)
WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder)

* Lemonier was acquired in part with a tributary pick stemming from the Smith trade, and Johnson was acquired from Buffalo on Friday for a fourth-round conditional pick in 2015. That’s included here because San Francisco obtained a fourth-round pick in 2015 from Denver for the second-round pick that originally belonged to Kansas City—so the two picks, arguably, will end up canceling each other out.
Now the story. In the span of 22 minutes Friday, Baalke consummated three trades. One: He traded the 56th pick in the second round (the second Kansas City second-rounder) to Denver for the 63rdand 171st this year, and the Broncos’ fourth-round pick next year. Two: Baalke traded the 63rd and 171stpicks just acquired from Denver to Miami for the 57th pick in the draft; Baalke got the player he would have picked at 56, Carlos Hyde, at 57 … while adding the fourth-rounder next year that replaced the pick used to get Stevie Johnson. Three: He traded his own second-round pick, 61st overall, to Jacksonville for the 70th and 150th picks.

Baalke explained that he and COO Paraag Marathe work the phone and line up prospective trades, and it was hectic because there were a couple of other teams calling in that 22-minute span trying to get one or more of the Niners’ picks at 56 and 61. “That span you talked about was a little bit of a grind,” Baalke said late Saturday night. “A lot of action, a lot of things to consider. Paraag’s the best in the business at lining things up, and then we make the decision. After we made the trade with Denver, I thought we might be able to get Carlos at 61, but then we called [Miami] at 57 and figured we could use what we got from Denver in this year’s draft and keep next year’s pick and move up to make sure we got him. And it allowed us basically to get our four back, which we used to trade for Stevie.”

This isn’t a case of San Francisco fleecing Denver. But it is an example of Baalke doing the smart thing, and waiting till a needy team is either on the clock or frothing after a certain player. That was Denver with wide receiver Cody Latimer, who the Broncos project to replace Eric Decker right away. If he works out the way John Elway thinks, surrendering the four next year will be nothing.

Time will tell if Baalke made the haul worth it. The five pieces the Smith deal yielded:

Carradine will get on the field healthy for the first time as a Niner this month. He missed all of last season with an ACL tear. He’ll be the third man in the 3-4 defensive end rotation with the aging Justin Smith and Ray McDonald, and move inside on some four-lineman snaps. He’s being groomed to start in the 3-4 scheme when Smith or McDonald are gone.
Lemonierplayed 284 snaps, mostly subbing for the idle Aldon Smith last year, and will be in the outside-linebacker rotation with Michael Wilhoite and Nick Moody, competing for time.
Borlandis an accomplished college player, and produced an amazing 27 turnovers in his Wisconsin career. But he’s only 5-11 ½, and he could be a first-down player only (against the run). “It’ll be interesting to see if his game translates to the NFL,” said defensive coordinator Vic Fangio. However, with NaVorro Bowman expect to be sidelined until at least November rehabbing a sere knee injury, there’s a spot on the Niners’ D at inside ‘backer waiting to be won, and Borland will get a solid crack at it. “I’ve heard people talk about his size, and his short arms,” said Baalke. “But he’s a guy with instincts. All those short did somehow was rack up over 400 tackles in the Big Ten.”
Hyde should be able to make the move from the Big 10 to the NFL much easier. He’s the heir to Frank Gore, a 230-pound bruiser with enough moves to be an every-down back. That is, if Gore ever slows down.
Johnson is still only 27, but he had a down year last year with the Bills. He’s not the speedster the Niners sought this offseason to help de-pressurize Anquan Boldin and Michael Crabtree, but he should be a good third receiver and an adequate piece to San Francisco’s underachieving receiver group.
I asked Baalke about his feelings on the trade now that the chips are known. “Mixed emotions,’’ he said. “I have so much respect for Alex Smith and his family, and great regard for him as a player. He’s the epitome of a good man and teammate and a good player. I know the Kansas City Chiefs staff, and they are thrilled to have him. We’ll see how it works out for us. It’s still early.”

ndws · 05-12-2014, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Borland isn't going to do crap on that team with Willis and Bowman there unless they're planning to cut Willis in the near future because of the cost.

Probably a safety net for Bowman and his knee.

**RealSNR** · 05-12-2014, 09:22 AM

What would you rather have again?

Someone like Carson Palmer in free agency + 2013's 2nd round pick (used possibly to draft Geno) + Cody Latimer?

Or Alex Smith?

OldSchool · 05-12-2014, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

What would you rather have again?

Someone like Carson Palmer in free agency + 2013's 2nd round pick (used possibly to draft Geno) + Cody Latimer?

Or Alex Smith?

Smith easily. Palmer does not survive behind this OL with the limited weapons that we have. Smith is also a significantly smarter and more clutch performer than Palmer is. He's also young enough that he can be the answer for the next 5-6 years or beyond if he decides to play that long. Geno Smith is crap.

There's no guarantee that Latimer ever pans out. There are more physically gifted players who enter the league and end up failing terribly than you can count.

patteeu · 05-12-2014, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

What would you rather have again?

Someone like Carson Palmer in free agency + 2013's 2nd round pick (used possibly to draft Geno) + Cody Latimer?

Or Alex Smith?

For two second rounders and a 5th, the Chiefs acquired Alex Smith, Tyler Bray, and Aaron Murray. For a team that was devoid of QB talent, I think Dorsey/Reid handled it alright (although truth be told, I'm not optimistic at all about Bray).

Pasta Little Brioni · 05-12-2014, 09:30 AM

Palmer and Geno make me barf....and I was a Geno guy.

keg in kc · 05-12-2014, 09:31 AM

Kind of difficult to answer the question of what the right choice is or was right now. Time will tell. If we turn into the early '00s Eagles with Alex Smith behind center, are any of us really going to complain that they went with the names they liked instead of the names we liked? And on the flip side, if it fails miserably, we'll pretty much have our concerns confirmed.

**J Diddy** · 05-12-2014, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Kind of difficult to answer the question of what the right choice is or was right now. Time will tell. If we turn into the early '00s Eagles with Alex Smith behind center, are any of us really going to complain that they went with the names they liked instead of the names we liked? And on the flip side, if it fails miserably, we'll pretty much have our concerns confirmed.

Common sense has no place in draft discussion.

OldSchool · 05-12-2014, 09:35 AM

Also, for a guy who had Larry Fitzgerald, Michael Floyd, and Andre Roberts to throw to, Palmer had a piss poor TD:INT ratio of 24:22. He only threw 1 more TD than Smith did and he had a QB's dream to work with compared to what Smith had here.

There hasn't been a single season where Palmer has thrown for less than 12 INTs, the only time that he didn't throw that many was when he was injured and had his season cut short after 4 games.

CapsLockKey · 05-12-2014, 09:45 AM

Alex Smith was a key piece in taking a two win team to the playoffs overnight. What did the players from them picks contribute to so far for the 9ers? Add to it the Chiefs stole Cooper away from SF for free. I hated the trade as much as the next guy when it went down, but I'd say it worked out pretty well for the Chiefs regardless of what SF did with the picks.

**RealSNR** · 05-12-2014, 09:46 AM

Also, can I just say that these names:

DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013)
LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013)
LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014)
RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014)
WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder)

Are ****ing horse shit.

The only good pick I like up there is Borland, and that's because I'm a Wisconsin homer. The Stevie Johnson trade was insane value, too.

Everything else is horseshit. Baalke sucks.

**The Franchise** · 05-12-2014, 09:47 AM

I view the Jared Allen trade as more of a raping than the Alex Smith trade in terms of players drafted and value.

**RealSNR** · 05-12-2014, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Also, for a guy who had Larry Fitzgerald, Michael Floyd, and Andre Roberts to throw to, Palmer had a piss poor TD:INT ratio of 24:22. He only threw 1 more TD than Smith did and he had a QB's dream to work with compared to what Smith had here.

There hasn't been a single season where Palmer has thrown for less than 12 INTs, the only time that he didn't throw that many was when he was injured and had his season cut short after 4 games.

I'm arguing that if all the Smith trade gets us is 11-5 and a playoff loss in one season followed by 6-10 and no playoffs (which is more likely than getting a playoff appearance this year) then I would have preferred the Chiefs to not make this huge push in free agency last year. They should have let Bowe and Albert walk, kept a cheap QB and all their draft picks, and started over.

The deconstruction of this team is going to be messy, and it's a stage that has to take place before the reconstruction can happen. I could see us getting mired in shitty poorly negotiated contract after shitty poorly negotiated contract with an overpaid QB while we open up new wounds at a variety of positions every year.

This draft sets us up well to offload Hali and Flowers next year, but in the meantime we're STILL short a fantastic single-high safety and a WR who doesn't suck eggs next to Bowe. Oh, and Berry, Houston, and Smith still need new contracts.

Prison Bitch · 05-12-2014, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGM

So They got a guy that ****ed up his knee, a guy behind Nick ****ing Moody on the depth chart

, a guy that projects as a 1st down run stuffer at best, backup RB, and malcontent receiver. This is how the people bitching evaluate our guys, so only fair to do the same. We get a QB that helps take us from 2 to 11 wins and puts up 44 in the playoffs. Scores 35 ppg the 2nd half of the year when they score 13 a game the year before with same players. That is value.

Probably the first good post I've ever seen from you. Repped.

**notorious** · 05-12-2014, 09:59 AM

If our defense doesn't melt down against Indy the Alex haters would have no ground to stand on.

htismaqe · 05-12-2014, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

What would you rather have again?

Someone like Carson Palmer in free agency + 2013's 2nd round pick (used possibly to draft Geno) + Cody Latimer?

Or Alex Smith?

I want no part of Carson Palmer, regardless of the alternatives.

05-12-2014, 01:08 AM
DTLB58 DT CARD COLLECTOR Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: ManCave Casino cash: $10005837	What The Niners did with the Picks from the AS trade From MMQB http://mmqb.si.com/2014/05/12/the-20...with-a-kiss/3/ Now that we see the final product of what the Niners gave away and received in the Alex Smith trade from 14 months ago, we can judge one thing about San Francisco GM Trent Baalke: He is calculating, he is fast, and he knows how to set up his team for the future. The result, first, of the 2013 trade of Smith to Kansas City for a pair of second-round draft picks. The two second-round picks, or their tributaries, were traded a total of five times over the past two drafts, and here’s how it shook out after this year’s draft. Surrendered QB Alex Smith Acquired* DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013) LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013) LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014) RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014) WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder) * Lemonier was acquired in part with a tributary pick stemming from the Smith trade, and Johnson was acquired from Buffalo on Friday for a fourth-round conditional pick in 2015. That’s included here because San Francisco obtained a fourth-round pick in 2015 from Denver for the second-round pick that originally belonged to Kansas City—so the two picks, arguably, will end up canceling each other out. Now the story. In the span of 22 minutes Friday, Baalke consummated three trades. One: He traded the 56th pick in the second round (the second Kansas City second-rounder) to Denver for the 63rdand 171st this year, and the Broncos’ fourth-round pick next year. Two: Baalke traded the 63rd and 171stpicks just acquired from Denver to Miami for the 57th pick in the draft; Baalke got the player he would have picked at 56, Carlos Hyde, at 57 … while adding the fourth-rounder next year that replaced the pick used to get Stevie Johnson. Three: He traded his own second-round pick, 61st overall, to Jacksonville for the 70th and 150th picks. Baalke explained that he and COO Paraag Marathe work the phone and line up prospective trades, and it was hectic because there were a couple of other teams calling in that 22-minute span trying to get one or more of the Niners’ picks at 56 and 61. “That span you talked about was a little bit of a grind,” Baalke said late Saturday night. “A lot of action, a lot of things to consider. Paraag’s the best in the business at lining things up, and then we make the decision. After we made the trade with Denver, I thought we might be able to get Carlos at 61, but then we called [Miami] at 57 and figured we could use what we got from Denver in this year’s draft and keep next year’s pick and move up to make sure we got him. And it allowed us basically to get our four back, which we used to trade for Stevie.” This isn’t a case of San Francisco fleecing Denver. But it is an example of Baalke doing the smart thing, and waiting till a needy team is either on the clock or frothing after a certain player. That was Denver with wide receiver Cody Latimer, who the Broncos project to replace Eric Decker right away. If he works out the way John Elway thinks, surrendering the four next year will be nothing. Time will tell if Baalke made the haul worth it. The five pieces the Smith deal yielded: Carradine will get on the field healthy for the first time as a Niner this month. He missed all of last season with an ACL tear. He’ll be the third man in the 3-4 defensive end rotation with the aging Justin Smith and Ray McDonald, and move inside on some four-lineman snaps. He’s being groomed to start in the 3-4 scheme when Smith or McDonald are gone. Lemonierplayed 284 snaps, mostly subbing for the idle Aldon Smith last year, and will be in the outside-linebacker rotation with Michael Wilhoite and Nick Moody, competing for time. Borlandis an accomplished college player, and produced an amazing 27 turnovers in his Wisconsin career. But he’s only 5-11 ½, and he could be a first-down player only (against the run). “It’ll be interesting to see if his game translates to the NFL,” said defensive coordinator Vic Fangio. However, with NaVorro Bowman expect to be sidelined until at least November rehabbing a sere knee injury, there’s a spot on the Niners’ D at inside ‘backer waiting to be won, and Borland will get a solid crack at it. “I’ve heard people talk about his size, and his short arms,” said Baalke. “But he’s a guy with instincts. All those short did somehow was rack up over 400 tackles in the Big Ten.” Hyde should be able to make the move from the Big 10 to the NFL much easier. He’s the heir to Frank Gore, a 230-pound bruiser with enough moves to be an every-down back. That is, if Gore ever slows down. Johnson is still only 27, but he had a down year last year with the Bills. He’s not the speedster the Niners sought this offseason to help de-pressurize Anquan Boldin and Michael Crabtree, but he should be a good third receiver and an adequate piece to San Francisco’s underachieving receiver group. I asked Baalke about his feelings on the trade now that the chips are known. “Mixed emotions,’’ he said. “I have so much respect for Alex Smith and his family, and great regard for him as a player. He’s the epitome of a good man and teammate and a good player. I know the Kansas City Chiefs staff, and they are thrilled to have him. We’ll see how it works out for us. It’s still early.” Last edited by DTLB58; 05-12-2014 at 01:14 AM.. Reason: Added text
Posts: 7,574

05-12-2014, 09:22 AM	#62
RealSNR Special Teams ACE!!! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Where the hell is SNR Casino cash: $2380208	What would you rather have again? Someone like Carson Palmer in free agency + 2013's 2nd round pick (used possibly to draft Geno) + Cody Latimer? Or Alex Smith?
Posts: 90,376

05-12-2014, 09:30 AM	#65
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $3998880	Palmer and Geno make me barf....and I was a Geno guy.
Posts: 68,470

05-12-2014, 09:31 AM	#66
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Kind of difficult to answer the question of what the right choice is or was right now. Time will tell. If we turn into the early '00s Eagles with Alex Smith behind center, are any of us really going to complain that they went with the names they liked instead of the names we liked? And on the flip side, if it fails miserably, we'll pretty much have our concerns confirmed.
Posts: 58,682

05-12-2014, 09:35 AM	#68
OldSchool MVP Join Date: Sep 2013 Casino cash: $10035212	Also, for a guy who had Larry Fitzgerald, Michael Floyd, and Andre Roberts to throw to, Palmer had a piss poor TD:INT ratio of 24:22. He only threw 1 more TD than Smith did and he had a QB's dream to work with compared to what Smith had here. There hasn't been a single season where Palmer has thrown for less than 12 INTs, the only time that he didn't throw that many was when he was injured and had his season cut short after 4 games.
Posts: 12,727

05-12-2014, 09:45 AM	#69
CapsLockKey Starter Join Date: Feb 2009 Casino cash: $1981445	Alex Smith was a key piece in taking a two win team to the playoffs overnight. What did the players from them picks contribute to so far for the 9ers? Add to it the Chiefs stole Cooper away from SF for free. I hated the trade as much as the next guy when it went down, but I'd say it worked out pretty well for the Chiefs regardless of what SF did with the picks.
Posts: 879

05-12-2014, 09:46 AM	#70
RealSNR Special Teams ACE!!! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Where the hell is SNR Casino cash: $2380208	Also, can I just say that these names: DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013) LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013) LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014) RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014) WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder) Are ****ing horse shit. The only good pick I like up there is Borland, and that's because I'm a Wisconsin homer. The Stevie Johnson trade was insane value, too. Everything else is horseshit. Baalke sucks.
Posts: 90,376

05-12-2014, 09:47 AM	#71
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $3125047	I view the Jared Allen trade as more of a raping than the Alex Smith trade in terms of players drafted and value.
Posts: 92,093

05-12-2014, 09:59 AM	#74
notorious Supporter Join Date: May 2005 Location: Who knows? Casino cash: $2945884	If our defense doesn't melt down against Indy the Alex haters would have no ground to stand on.
Posts: 83,357