Commisioner finds Pats Guilty - Page 11

percysnow · 05:21 PM

will give them chance to plea case fri. . see below Donger's post

Amnorix · 09-12-2007, 08:50 AM

BB's statement. Appears he's falling on the sword on this:

Bill Belichick released the following statement today:"Earlier this week, I spoke with Commissioner Goodell about a videotaping procedure during last Sunday's game and my interpretation of the rules. At this point, we have not been notified of the league's ruling. Although it remains a league matter, I want to apologize to everyone who has been affected, most of all ownership, staff and players. Following the league’s decision, I will have further comment."

el borracho · 09-12-2007, 08:50 AM

If the Jets were cheating in the manner described then the head coach should be suspended for the season. Of course it still would not justify the Pats cheating ways so I would still recommend that the Pats head coach be suspended, as well.

Amnorix · 09-12-2007, 08:54 AM

NY Daily News:

Armed with counter-intelligence from Eric Mangini, the Jets apparently have succeeded in busting the Patriots' spy ring.
A former assistant under Bill Belichick, Mangini arrived in New York last year with an insider's knowledge of the Patriots' sign-stealing surveillance tactics and he shared the dirty little secret with members of the Jets' organization, a person with knowledge of the matter informed the Daily News yesterday.
It wasn't until the fifth Mangini-Belichick showdown - last Sunday - that the Jets were able to catch the Patriots. Tipped off by Jets security, an NFL security official confiscated a video camera and tape from a Patriots employee at the Meadowlands, and the evidence is believed to be damning.
Commissioner Roger Goodell hasn't made a final decision, according to a high-level source, but he wants to resolve the issue ASAP. A league spokesman refuted an ESPN report last night that said Goodell already has determined that the Patriots violated league rules.
An announcement could be made by the end of the week. The Patriots, who will have a chance to present their side to Goodell by Friday, could be stripped of multiple draft choices and/or fined heavily.
Matt Estrella, 26, a Patriots video assistant, was nabbed just before halftime of the Jets' 38-14 loss on opening day. He allegedly videotaped hand signals from the Jets' defensive coaches on the sideline, defying an edict from Goodell, who warned teams before the season that he wouldn't tolerate cheating. Several teams have suspected the Patriots of stealing signs. So did the Jets, thanks to Mangini.
"(The Jets) knew they did it," the person with knowledge of the situation said in an e-mail to the Daily News. "They caught the guy a year ago, but couldn't do anything about it. When Eric came, he said that's what they used to do. Bill is going to be (ticked) at Eric. He kissed and told."
Mangini, hired last year by the Jets, coached under Belichick from 2000 to 2005 in New England. Their once-close relationship has frayed, and this latest chapter in the Border War has raised the hostility to all-time levels.
New details came to light yesterday. The cameraman, wearing a team polo shirt under the league-mandated sideline photographer's vest, was stopped by security as he tried to enter the New England locker room before halftime, sources said. An animated discussion ensued, involving league security, Jets security and Patriots security.
The dispute, which occurred in the bowels of the stadium, lasted more than an hour, virtually the entire second half. At one point, it became so heated that New Jersey state troopers were summoned as a precaution, a source said. The Jets apparently were trying to confiscate the videotape, which wound up in the possession of NFL security. The tape was placed in a box, sealed and forwarded to the league.
"He looked scared to death," one source said of Estrella.
It's unclear if the Patriots had a chance to review the tape before it was seized, raising the question of whether it helped them in the game. They certainly played like they knew the Jets' strategy. In the second half, Tom Brady completed 10 of 11 passes for 138 yards and a touchdown.
"He seemed like he knew what we were doing," safety Kerry Rhodes said.
No video recording devices of any kind are permitted on the field, in the locker room or in the coaches' booth during a game, according to league rules.
Patriots owner Robert Kraft said yesterday it would be inappropriate to comment directly on the accusations, but he hinted that the Jets' actions may have stemmed from being envious of his team's success.
"When you're successful in anything, a lot of people like to try to take you down and do different things," he told reporters at a charity appearance. "We understand that."
The Jets have declined comment, saying it's a league matter.
Belichick, addressing the situation for the first time late Monday on his Boston radio show, acknowledged he was aware of the incident at the game. Beyond that, he provided little insight, saying, "It's a league thing. Whatever the deal is, which I don't even know the details of, a lot of it, we'll comply."
This isn't the first time the Jets and Patriots have accused each other of wrongdoing. A year ago, the Patriots filed tampering charges against the Jets, claiming they conducted improper discussions with Deion Branch when the wide receiver was given permission to seek a trade. After an intensive, four-month investigation, the Jets were exonerated.
Patriots bashing apparently has become popular. Chargers running back LaDainian Tomlinson, who questioned Belichick's integrity after a playoff loss last January, said Monday he wasn't surprised by Spy Gate.
"I think the Patriots actually live by the saying, 'If you're not cheating, you're not trying,'" he told reporters in San Diego.
The Chargers and Patriots meet this Sunday.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...hicks_spy.html

Amnorix · 09-12-2007, 08:55 AM

Tiki and Ronde Barber, as quoted by a pats fan on a Pats board:

On their "Barber Shop" show on Sirius NFL radio last night said that that every team has someone who's job it is to try to steal the other team's signals and that everyone in the league knows it is going on. They said they don't know if everyone video tapes it, but they were kinda surprised about the reaction since the Jets were probably doing a similiar thing to the Pats but just wasn't caught.

Amnorix · 09-12-2007, 08:56 AM

I gotta admit, I don't get why this is THAT hot a story.

maybe it's the homer glasses, I dunno.

StcChief · 09-12-2007, 08:58 AM

Like it made any difference. Jets got wiped.

pikesome · 09-12-2007, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

So in other words you're mind is made up on incomplete information?

Made up? Not completely, but baring having 100% of the fact I have to form my opinion based on what I have.

Quote:

Did it ever occur to you, they needed proof and there was no time inbetween to file a complaint. There's many scenarios that could explain things. This is what incomplete information does to people....they make up data if only to make sense of the situation based on original stories.

This is way far fetched. I'm sure that if there was enough reason for the Pats to go Perry Mason on the Jets there should have been enough to call the league office and say "Hey, we're suspicious, you guys ought to look into this". It's not like the NFL has standing penalties for inaccurately accusing teams as long as it's not public.

There's enough evidence, apparently, for the NFL to issue a statement saying that they think the Pats are guilty. They're giving them a chance to explain but whatever they have seems to be proof enough for them.

Brock · 09-12-2007, 09:02 AM

LT still whining, LOL.

Amnorix · 09-12-2007, 09:03 AM

Clayton has several EXCELLENT points on this, including why a 2nd day pick is no penalty at all to the Pats (only the 1st and 2nd round picks made the team this year).

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...ohn&id=3014944

**HemiEd** · 09-12-2007, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Tiki and Ronde Barber, as quoted by a pats fan on a Pats board:

On their "Barber Shop" show on Sirius NFL radio last night said that that every team has someone who's job it is to try to steal the other team's signals and that everyone in the league knows it is going on. They said they don't know if everyone video tapes it, but they were kinda surprised about the reaction since the Jets were probably doing a similiar thing to the Pats but just wasn't caught.

Stealing signs is part of the NFL and MLB IMO. Usually some old fart with a note pad.
However, using technology, to make an exact audio/visual guide, is going out of bounds IMO.
Signs would be obsolete if that were allowed, and it appears the rules have this covered, to me.

pikesome · 09-12-2007, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I gotta admit, I don't get why this is THAT hot a story.

maybe it's the homer glasses, I dunno.

It casts doubt on how "great" BB's genius really is. That's the bad thing about this sort of deal. The Pats and BB have been lauded for doing so much with so little and game planning for each opponent so well. If this happened once you have to be suspicious how many times it's happened before. Maybe never but once you get the tag of "cheater" it colors every single thing you have or will do.

**HemiEd** · 09-12-2007, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I gotta admit, I don't get why this is THAT hot a story.

maybe it's the homer glasses, I dunno.

Because the Patriots are the cow that made it to the top of the pile of shit. (feedlot reference)

StcChief · 09-12-2007, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Stealing signs is part of the NFL and MLB IMO. Usually some old fart with a note pad.
However, using technology, to make an exact audio/visual guide, is going out of bounds IMO.
Signs would be obsolete if that were allowed, and it appears the rules have this covered, to me.

The headset jamming bugs me the most. Signs can be changed

el borracho · 09-12-2007, 09:05 AM

Cheating is always a hot issue in sports. If we are just going to shrug and excuse cheating by saying "everyone is doing it" then we might as well not have competitive sports.

pikesome · 09-12-2007, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StcChief

The headset jamming bugs me the most. Signs can be changed

Or listening in. There are all sorts of ways to collect signal intell and that's the possibility that seems so scary. It would change a vast amount of the way thing are done if someone got caught do that.

09-11-2007, 05:06 PM
percysnow Starter Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $10004900	Commisioner finds Pats Guilty will give them chance to plea case fri. . see below Donger's post Last edited by percysnow; 09-11-2007 at 05:21 PM..
Posts: 714

09-12-2007, 08:50 AM	#151
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	BB's statement. Appears he's falling on the sword on this: Bill Belichick released the following statement today:"Earlier this week, I spoke with Commissioner Goodell about a videotaping procedure during last Sunday's game and my interpretation of the rules. At this point, we have not been notified of the league's ruling. Although it remains a league matter, I want to apologize to everyone who has been affected, most of all ownership, staff and players. Following the league’s decision, I will have further comment." __________________ "I love signature blocks on the Internet. I get to put whatever the hell I want in quotes, pick a pretend author, and bang, it's like he really said it." George Washington
Posts: 43,125

09-12-2007, 08:50 AM	#152
el borracho In Pat We Trust Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Albuquerque, NM Casino cash: $6189148	If the Jets were cheating in the manner described then the head coach should be suspended for the season. Of course it still would not justify the Pats cheating ways so I would still recommend that the Pats head coach be suspended, as well.
Posts: 11,841

09-12-2007, 08:54 AM	#153
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	NY Daily News: Armed with counter-intelligence from Eric Mangini, the Jets apparently have succeeded in busting the Patriots' spy ring. A former assistant under Bill Belichick, Mangini arrived in New York last year with an insider's knowledge of the Patriots' sign-stealing surveillance tactics and he shared the dirty little secret with members of the Jets' organization, a person with knowledge of the matter informed the Daily News yesterday. It wasn't until the fifth Mangini-Belichick showdown - last Sunday - that the Jets were able to catch the Patriots. Tipped off by Jets security, an NFL security official confiscated a video camera and tape from a Patriots employee at the Meadowlands, and the evidence is believed to be damning. Commissioner Roger Goodell hasn't made a final decision, according to a high-level source, but he wants to resolve the issue ASAP. A league spokesman refuted an ESPN report last night that said Goodell already has determined that the Patriots violated league rules. An announcement could be made by the end of the week. The Patriots, who will have a chance to present their side to Goodell by Friday, could be stripped of multiple draft choices and/or fined heavily. Matt Estrella, 26, a Patriots video assistant, was nabbed just before halftime of the Jets' 38-14 loss on opening day. He allegedly videotaped hand signals from the Jets' defensive coaches on the sideline, defying an edict from Goodell, who warned teams before the season that he wouldn't tolerate cheating. Several teams have suspected the Patriots of stealing signs. So did the Jets, thanks to Mangini. "(The Jets) knew they did it," the person with knowledge of the situation said in an e-mail to the Daily News. "They caught the guy a year ago, but couldn't do anything about it. When Eric came, he said that's what they used to do. Bill is going to be (ticked) at Eric. He kissed and told." Mangini, hired last year by the Jets, coached under Belichick from 2000 to 2005 in New England. Their once-close relationship has frayed, and this latest chapter in the Border War has raised the hostility to all-time levels. New details came to light yesterday. The cameraman, wearing a team polo shirt under the league-mandated sideline photographer's vest, was stopped by security as he tried to enter the New England locker room before halftime, sources said. An animated discussion ensued, involving league security, Jets security and Patriots security. The dispute, which occurred in the bowels of the stadium, lasted more than an hour, virtually the entire second half. At one point, it became so heated that New Jersey state troopers were summoned as a precaution, a source said. The Jets apparently were trying to confiscate the videotape, which wound up in the possession of NFL security. The tape was placed in a box, sealed and forwarded to the league. "He looked scared to death," one source said of Estrella. It's unclear if the Patriots had a chance to review the tape before it was seized, raising the question of whether it helped them in the game. They certainly played like they knew the Jets' strategy. In the second half, Tom Brady completed 10 of 11 passes for 138 yards and a touchdown. "He seemed like he knew what we were doing," safety Kerry Rhodes said. No video recording devices of any kind are permitted on the field, in the locker room or in the coaches' booth during a game, according to league rules. Patriots owner Robert Kraft said yesterday it would be inappropriate to comment directly on the accusations, but he hinted that the Jets' actions may have stemmed from being envious of his team's success. "When you're successful in anything, a lot of people like to try to take you down and do different things," he told reporters at a charity appearance. "We understand that." The Jets have declined comment, saying it's a league matter. Belichick, addressing the situation for the first time late Monday on his Boston radio show, acknowledged he was aware of the incident at the game. Beyond that, he provided little insight, saying, "It's a league thing. Whatever the deal is, which I don't even know the details of, a lot of it, we'll comply." This isn't the first time the Jets and Patriots have accused each other of wrongdoing. A year ago, the Patriots filed tampering charges against the Jets, claiming they conducted improper discussions with Deion Branch when the wide receiver was given permission to seek a trade. After an intensive, four-month investigation, the Jets were exonerated. Patriots bashing apparently has become popular. Chargers running back LaDainian Tomlinson, who questioned Belichick's integrity after a playoff loss last January, said Monday he wasn't surprised by Spy Gate. "I think the Patriots actually live by the saying, 'If you're not cheating, you're not trying,'" he told reporters in San Diego. The Chargers and Patriots meet this Sunday. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...hicks_spy.html __________________ "I love signature blocks on the Internet. I get to put whatever the hell I want in quotes, pick a pretend author, and bang, it's like he really said it." George Washington
Posts: 43,125

09-12-2007, 08:55 AM	#154
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	Tiki and Ronde Barber, as quoted by a pats fan on a Pats board: On their "Barber Shop" show on Sirius NFL radio last night said that that every team has someone who's job it is to try to steal the other team's signals and that everyone in the league knows it is going on. They said they don't know if everyone video tapes it, but they were kinda surprised about the reaction since the Jets were probably doing a similiar thing to the Pats but just wasn't caught. __________________ "I love signature blocks on the Internet. I get to put whatever the hell I want in quotes, pick a pretend author, and bang, it's like he really said it." George Washington
Posts: 43,125

09-12-2007, 08:56 AM	#155
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	I gotta admit, I don't get why this is THAT hot a story. maybe it's the homer glasses, I dunno. __________________ "I love signature blocks on the Internet. I get to put whatever the hell I want in quotes, pick a pretend author, and bang, it's like he really said it." George Washington
Posts: 43,125

09-12-2007, 08:58 AM	#156
StcChief Playing for #1 Draft Pick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Just West of Lambs land Casino cash: $10004900	Like it made any difference. Jets got wiped.
Posts: 25,901

09-12-2007, 09:02 AM	#158
Brock Say hello to my little friend Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Larryville Casino cash: $9598422	LT still whining, LOL.
Posts: 47,314

09-12-2007, 09:03 AM	#159
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	Clayton has several EXCELLENT points on this, including why a 2nd day pick is no penalty at all to the Pats (only the 1st and 2nd round picks made the team this year). http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...ohn&id=3014944 __________________ "I love signature blocks on the Internet. I get to put whatever the hell I want in quotes, pick a pretend author, and bang, it's like he really said it." George Washington
Posts: 43,125

09-12-2007, 09:05 AM	#164
el borracho In Pat We Trust Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Albuquerque, NM Casino cash: $6189148	Cheating is always a hot issue in sports. If we are just going to shrug and excuse cheating by saying "everyone is doing it" then we might as well not have competitive sports.
Posts: 11,841