News RIP Steve Jobs

**AustinChief** · 10-06-2011, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silock

Just like you KNOW the man himself, right?

No, but I KNOW the facts surrounding him and his actions.. Jesus, how ****ing hard is that to understand. Yes, he may have changed his ways and become a sweetheart the last few years... but since I have ZERO evidence of that and an overwhelming amount of evidence showing him to be a prick for most of his life.. I'll go with what I KNOW.

Quit being dense. You don't KNOW Kim Jong-Il but I'd guess you could study up and know enough of his actions to draw a reasonable conclusion as to what kind of person he is. This isn't rocket surgery dude.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around people excusing him stealing from Woz. It's not like stealing an idea or stealing credit.. he directly STOLE money from him... that's beyond shitty. End of story.

Brooklyn · 10-06-2011, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

No, but I KNOW the facts surrounding him and his actions.. Jesus, how ****ing hard is that to understand. Yes, he may have changed his ways and become a sweetheart the last few years... but since I have ZERO evidence of that and and an overwhelming amount of evidence showing him to be a prick for most of his life.. I'll go with what I KNOW.

Quit being dense. You don't KNOW Kim Jong-Il but I'd guess you could study up and know enough of his actions to draw a reasonable conclusion as to what kind of person he is. This isn't rocket surgery dude.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around people excusing him stealing from Woz. It's not like stealing an idea or stealing credit.. he directly STOLE money from him... that's beyond shitty. End of story.

I think the sticking point here is being a prick and being a revolutionary and important figure aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, those that are the most influential have often been cited to be among the most dastardly. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of the guy, but I can definitely see those who believe that in exchange for his contributions he is above reproach for whatever underhanded shit he did.

**AustinChief** · 10-06-2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brooklyn

I think the sticking point here is being a prick and being a revolutionary and important figure aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, those that are the most influential have often been cited to be among the most dastardly. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of the guy, but I can definitely see those who believe that in exchange for his contributions he is above reproach for whatever underhanded shit he did.

This is the part that I take exception to... I have no problem with everyone lauding his accomplishments (regardless of any arguments over who deserves credit, blah blah blah) but I have problems with the "sainthood" being applied to him by far too many people. Accomplishments NEVER NEVER NEVER can excuse being a bad person. Period. That type of thinking is wrong and frankly, dangerous as hell.

Yes he was a "visionary", yes he was a revolutionary... and he was also a bad human. Let's not forget that part too.

Just keeping it all in perspective.

GordonGekko · 10-06-2011, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

and he was also a bad human. Let's not forget that part too...

Bad human? A bit judgmental here. I'm not exactly Jobs' biggest fan, but the guy was a f****** competitor. He was definitely not a saint, and if you'd asked him if he was he probably would of laughed. It sounds like you really just hate his fanboiys, who tend to be the real pricks. But I'd definitely not call anyone 'bad humans'. That's just judgmental and wrong.

I never had problems with Jobs, I liked his energy, charisma, and what he brought to the table. I'm not such a big fan of iTunes, or the gay colored iMacs back in the day.

**AustinChief** · 10-06-2011, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordonGekko

Bad human? A bit judgmental here. I'm not exactly Jobs' biggest fan, but the guy was a f****** competitor. He was definitely not a saint, and if you'd asked him if he was he probably would of laughed. It sounds like you really just hate his fanboiys, who tend to be the real pricks. But I'd definitely not call anyone 'bad humans'. That's just judgmental and wrong.

I never had problems with Jobs, I liked his energy, charisma, and what he brought to the table. I'm not such a big fan of iTunes, or the gay colored iMacs back in the day.

No, I take issue with Jobs... if you steal money from a "friend" who just did all the work for you.. you are a bad human... there is simply no excuse for it. There are tons of other stories of his bad behavior, but that one story sums up who he was more than any other.

If that makes me judgmental, then so be it.

**Dave Lane** · 10-06-2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

This is the part that I take exception to... I have no problem with everyone lauding his accomplishments (regardless of any arguments over who deserves credit, blah blah blah) but I have problems with the "sainthood" being applied to him by far too many people. Accomplishments NEVER NEVER NEVER can excuse being a bad person. Period. That type of thinking is wrong and frankly, dangerous as hell.

Yes he was a "visionary", yes he was a revolutionary... and he was also a bad human. Let's not forget that part too.

Just keeping it all in perspective.

Who is saying he was a saint? I worked with him alot and he wasn't perfect, no one said he was, he was a flawed human like all of us. If they wrote a 300 page expose on any of our lives there shit in there that would look bad period end of story. Maybe not MTG bad but bad none the less.

patteeu · 10-06-2011, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

Maybe not MTG bad but bad none the less.

Silock · 10-06-2011, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

No, but I KNOW the facts surrounding him and his actions.. Jesus, how ****ing hard is that to understand. Yes, he may have changed his ways and become a sweetheart the last few years... but since I have ZERO evidence of that and an overwhelming amount of evidence showing him to be a prick for most of his life.. I'll go with what I KNOW.

Again, you don't KNOW him as a person. Yeah, some shit happened that wasn't great. I'm sure every single one of us has something we wouldn't want to become public knowledge. Maybe not theft, but each of us has a dark side. Because he's in the public sphere, his is more known than either of ours. Still, because he tries to be so private and keep to himself, you don't know all the facts. How can you possibly expect to make an accurate judgment on someone without knowing all the facts? You may think you do, but you don't. There's a lot of stuff he didn't try to deny, but maybe he didn't think it was worth trying to explain it and apologize to people who would find fault with him either way.

I don't know.

Quote:

I'm still trying to wrap my head around people excusing him stealing from Woz. It's not like stealing an idea or stealing credit.. he directly STOLE money from him... that's beyond shitty. End of story.

No one is doing anything of the sort. "Quit being dense."