If Cutler falls to #20

[ChiefsCountry]

do we take a chance on him? A potential franchise quarterback. Him and LJ could make a darn good backfield. Or do we pass and do the defense thing.

Tough choice IMO.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by oldandslow

The Vikes will take him at 17 if he falls that far.

Count on it.

That is, of course, if they make it to the podium on time.

Living in Vikingland as I do, that's what I'm hearing too.....although, I guess it could be a smokescreen. I doubt it, given Johnson's age and their QB situation.

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

do we take a chance on him? A potential franchise quarterback. Him and LJ could make a darn good backfield. Or do we pass and do the defense thing.

Tough choice IMO.

I think it depends on the "is the Super Bowl window open or is it closed" mentality up at Arrowhead. If they think it is open, I think defense will win out over QB in round 1. QB in round 1 screams closed and rebuilding to me which means anything goes in this draft.

Personally, I think the window is pretty much closed. Cracked open at the very best. Nothing will surprise me this Saturday, but I would still go about rebuilding this thing from the defensive side of the ball first.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Coogs

I think it depends on the "is the Super Bowl window open or is it closed" mentality up at Arrowhead. If they think it is open, I think defense will win out over QB in round 1. QB in round 1 screams closed and rebuilding to me which means anything goes in this draft.

Personally, I think the window is pretty much closed. Cracked open at the very best. Nothing will surprise me this Saturday, but I would still go about rebuilding this thing from the defensive side of the ball first.

I would tend to agree. What I don't agree with is that the pick should be Cutler in that case. There's plenty of QBotF types in this draft without spending our 1st-round pick on a guy that could be the 2nd-coming of Jake Plummer.

[Chiefnj]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Why is everybody so enamored with Cutler? Because he has all the measurables?

He's got a TON of work to do to make it in this league, and some of his problems (poor decision-making, taking stupid risks) remind me an awful lot of Jake Plummer and Joey Harrington.

Hopefully, this plays out like Harrington did and we miss out on him.

Phil Simms on Cutler over at NFL.COM:

JAY CUTLER
The most overrated player in the draft? That's pretty funny.

I was very surprised when I watched Cutler on film for a couple of reasons. I didn't realize how good an athlete he is. He's big, very strong, and has an NFL body, especially for a quarterback.

He plays big and he plays strong. He can move around much better than I thought. He ran some option, ran the football well. He can stand in, and deliver the ball downfield with accuracy and power even when getting hit. His arm strength is exceptional -- tremendous. And what I like so much about his arm strength is that on short passes he gets the ball to his targets quick so they have a chance to run with it. It's not a high-effort throw. He doesn't have to work hard to get the ball somewhere with speed. It's natural.

I've read and heard from some NFL coaches that he tries to use his arm too much -- maybe tries to throw the ball hard when he shouldn't. I didn't notice that, but I did see him try to stick the ball into some tough spots. But I would look at that as a plus. At least a coach has the ability to tell a Jay Cutler to take something off his passes if he needs to.

Cutler probably played in an environment that was most NFL-like for a quarterback. I watched about five Vanderbilt games, and he got hit a lot. He's used to making decisions and throwing from a position that is more like what he'll see in the NFL.

There were a bunch of games that Vanderbilt would not have had a chance to win or stay close if he were not the quarterback. You could say that about Leinart and Young, but I'm not sure USC or Texas would have lost one or two games if their backup quarterbacks were in there. I don't know anything about the backup quarterback at Vanderbilt, but I know Cutler was always the best player on the field in their games.

THE SAFE PICK
What's interesting about these three quarterbacks is that we're dealing with three really different styles. For example, Vince Young is certainly capable of being a very good NFL quarterback … but it's a little unique and a little different. As an offensive coach, you're going to put in plays that you never put in before.


Jay Cutler might turn out to be the safest pick of the top three QBs.
I've heard it said that Cutler is the riskiest pick of the three because his name is not as big. I think it's actually the complete opposite.

By NFL standards, the safest pick of the three is Cutler. He's big and strong, has enough mobility and can make all the throws. Whether it's the West Coast, East Coast -- whatever offense he gets drafted into, he's going to be able to adapt to it. I'm not sure you can say that about the other two. There are offenses in the NFL that are not made for Matt Leinart, because they love to throw the ball downfield. That's not what he is going to be great at.

People compare Leinart to Tom Brady, and they like to talk about Brady's "intangibles" and leadership qualities, etc. But in my eyes, the quality that has made Tom Brady great is that he can really, really throw the football well. It's amazing how much smarter you can look as a quarterback if you can throw the ball that well. I don't mind people praising his other qualities, but his ability to "drive" the football, throw tight spirals and give his receivers a chance to run with the football is really the key.

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I was just getting ready to post my next reply when I read this.

I was going to say "Cutler is being overvalued because he's a QB."

I disagree with the notion that it's overvaluing for QB prospects. The market dictates the value, so to speak. There just aren't as many good prospects, and it's widely regarded as the most important position on the team.

The importance of the position, combined with the lack of quality prospects makes it more valuable.

[Dunit35]

But but but.......Mel Kiper says Cutler isn't as good as people think he is.

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I would tend to agree. What I don't agree with is that the pick should be Cutler in that case. There's plenty of QBotF types in this draft without spending our 1st-round pick on a guy that could be the 2nd-coming of Jake Plummer.

I agree totally. But if Cutler is somehow the pick tells me Herm has no eyes on the Super Bowl this season.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj

Phil Simms on Cutler over at NFL.COM:

JAY CUTLER
The most overrated player in the draft? That's pretty funny.

I was very surprised when I watched Cutler on film for a couple of reasons. I didn't realize how good an athlete he is. He's big, very strong, and has an NFL body, especially for a quarterback.

He plays big and he plays strong. He can move around much better than I thought. He ran some option, ran the football well. He can stand in, and deliver the ball downfield with accuracy and power even when getting hit. His arm strength is exceptional -- tremendous. And what I like so much about his arm strength is that on short passes he gets the ball to his targets quick so they have a chance to run with it. It's not a high-effort throw. He doesn't have to work hard to get the ball somewhere with speed. It's natural.

I've read and heard from some NFL coaches that he tries to use his arm too much -- maybe tries to throw the ball hard when he shouldn't. I didn't notice that, but I did see him try to stick the ball into some tough spots. But I would look at that as a plus. At least a coach has the ability to tell a Jay Cutler to take something off his passes if he needs to.

Cutler probably played in an environment that was most NFL-like for a quarterback. I watched about five Vanderbilt games, and he got hit a lot. He's used to making decisions and throwing from a position that is more like what he'll see in the NFL.

There were a bunch of games that Vanderbilt would not have had a chance to win or stay close if he were not the quarterback. You could say that about Leinart and Young, but I'm not sure USC or Texas would have lost one or two games if their backup quarterbacks were in there. I don't know anything about the backup quarterback at Vanderbilt, but I know Cutler was always the best player on the field in their games.

THE SAFE PICK
What's interesting about these three quarterbacks is that we're dealing with three really different styles. For example, Vince Young is certainly capable of being a very good NFL quarterback … but it's a little unique and a little different. As an offensive coach, you're going to put in plays that you never put in before.


Jay Cutler might turn out to be the safest pick of the top three QBs.
I've heard it said that Cutler is the riskiest pick of the three because his name is not as big. I think it's actually the complete opposite.

By NFL standards, the safest pick of the three is Cutler. He's big and strong, has enough mobility and can make all the throws. Whether it's the West Coast, East Coast -- whatever offense he gets drafted into, he's going to be able to adapt to it. I'm not sure you can say that about the other two. There are offenses in the NFL that are not made for Matt Leinart, because they love to throw the ball downfield. That's not what he is going to be great at.

People compare Leinart to Tom Brady, and they like to talk about Brady's "intangibles" and leadership qualities, etc. But in my eyes, the quality that has made Tom Brady great is that he can really, really throw the football well. It's amazing how much smarter you can look as a quarterback if you can throw the ball that well. I don't mind people praising his other qualities, but his ability to "drive" the football, throw tight spirals and give his receivers a chance to run with the football is really the key.

I see Simms conveniently left out the fact that Cutler likes to make throws that he has no business making. Bravado? Maybe. Stupiditiy? Possibly.

But if you just omit that fact, you could make a great case for Jake Plummer.

[Chiefnj]

Originally Posted by Coogs

I agree totally. But if Cutler is somehow the pick tells me Herm has no eyes on the Super Bowl this season.

How is Cutler any different from a Cromartie who started 1 college game, or a Lawson or Wimbley? How often is KC going to line up a 240lb DE on the line? A lot of the top prospects at 20 are big projects who aren't going to have the impact a lot of people are hoping for.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by jspchief

I disagree with the notion that it's overvaluing for QB prospects. The market dictates the value, so to speak. There just aren't as many good prospects, and it's widely regarded as the most important position on the team.

The importance of the position, combined with the lack of quality prospects makes it more valuable.

Take a look at 1st round QB's currently active in the league, particularly starters, and compare that to guys like Tom Brady, Trent Green, and the like.

QB is probably more risky than any other position in the draft.

If this team takes a QB, especially one like Cutler, they're more stupid than I thought they were.

[Chiefnj]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I see Simms conveniently left out the fact that Cutler likes to make throws that he has no business making. Bravado? Maybe. Stupiditiy? Possibly.

But if you just omit that fact, you could make a great case for Jake Plummer.

Or, maybe Sims realizes Cutler didn't have much talent around him and had to force balls to make things happen.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I see Simms conveniently left out the fact that Cutler likes to make throws that he has no business making. Bravado? Maybe. Stupiditiy? Possibly.

But if you just omit that fact, you could make a great case for Jake Plummer.

Jake Plummer? Or Brett Favre?

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj

How is Cutler any different from a Cromartie who started 1 college game, or a Lawson or Wimbley? How often is KC going to line up a 240lb DE on the line? A lot of the top prospects at 20 are big projects who aren't going to have the impact a lot of people are hoping for.

Well, like I said a few posts back, I think the window is cracked open a bit at best. And a defensive draft is all that will convince me that it is not slamed shut.

I still would rebuild it from the defensive side, starting with speed in the front four.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Take a look at 1st round QB's currently active in the league, particularly starters, and compare that to guys like Tom Brady, Trent Green, and the like.

QB is probably more risky than any other position in the draft.

If this team takes a QB, especially one like Cutler, they're more stupid than I thought they were.

Depends on the rest of the draft. If they don't draft for defense in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, I'd agree.....but I tend to think they can get two quality picks, with those selections (maybe Wright or Tapp, and Griffin or Minter)

It may be a while before they could get the value at QB, again, they would get with Cutler at 20.....

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj

How is Cutler any different from a Cromartie who started 1 college game, or a Lawson or Wimbley? How often is KC going to line up a 240lb DE on the line? A lot of the top prospects at 20 are big projects who aren't going to have the impact a lot of people are hoping for.

He isn't any different.

That's why I have about 10 players ahead of him, just like I have 10 players ahead of Cromartie.

As for Lawson or Wimbley, it has to do with tangibles vs. intangibles.

Cutler is a physical specimen with all the measurable, just like Lawson. Lawson can get by on those measurables, Cutler can't. Cutler plays QB and 60%, if not more, of being a great QB is MENTAL, something Cutler has shown repeatedly in the past he has problems with.