Secret Superstar: Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey, DEs, Kansas City Chiefs

[Buckweath]

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

To make more plays, mainly in the run game.

I agree they have very little pass rush skills, but it still should help free them in the run support and on pass-rushing, as well, dependent on the packages we are running.

We run alot of packages, with D-lineman moved in and out of the line-up, but if Poe wreaks havoc, like I think he's capable of, we'll get better in both areas.

Dorsey and Jackson in our scheme are the ones, with the NT, who are supposed to help free the LBs. In a 3-4, you want your LBs to roam free because of the Dline play.

[Buckweath]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

To do what? Neither of them have any pass rush skills.

Let me first say that I liked our defense, including the play of Dorsey and Jackson last season. They were super stout against the run, even without stellar NT play, and that allowed DJ, Belcher, and Houston to shine. Doesn't change the fact that they've showed absolutely zero pass rushing ability.

I agree with you. I really don't expect Dorsey and Jackson to improve their passrushing but I've come to understand that it's not their primary job. If ever we get more passrush from the Dline this year, it will come from Dontari Poe IMO. I mean, you look at a guy like Ngata, I don't think I'm wrong if I say he has never really helped his two teammates on the Dline get more pressure on the QB. He gets the pressure by himself and maybe helps the LBs behind him but not the other Dlinemen.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by chiefsfootballfan

oh, this idiot is a dumbass alright;

"New England had Ty Warren, who was for years one of the best run-stuffing 3-4 DEs as the lynchpin of that defense. It allowed their linebackers to make a name for themselves because they rarely had to deal with bodies coming at them"

okay now there was this dude named richard seymour that demolished a team all by himself in one play of several games. ty warren? you got to be kidding me. ted washington muther****er. richard seymour has 54 career sacks. hell he had 6 sacks as a 3tek last year. lynchpin he is.

worthless garbage. all you need to know about glenn dorsey is he is slow as hell. at least jackson can get up field. but dorsey good? oh gawd. how can a one demensional fat ass be good in the NFL? dorsey will be running a pancake house for a living in a couple years. what a miss that was.

Don't quit your day job.

[WhiteWhale]

Originally Posted by chiefsfootballfan

oh, this idiot is a dumbass alright;

"New England had Ty Warren, who was for years one of the best run-stuffing 3-4 DEs as the lynchpin of that defense. It allowed their linebackers to make a name for themselves because they rarely had to deal with bodies coming at them"

okay now there was this dude named richard seymour that demolished a team all by himself in one play of several games. ty warren? you got to be kidding me. ted washington muther****er. richard seymour has 54 career sacks. hell he had 6 sacks as a 3tek last year. lynchpin he is.

worthless garbage. all you need to know about glenn dorsey is he is slow as hell. at least jackson can get up field. but dorsey good? oh gawd. how can a one demensional fat ass be good in the NFL? dorsey will be running a pancake house for a living in a couple years. what a miss that was.

Like Dorsey and Jackson, it's easy for lesser informed fans to think Ty Warren wasn't anything special.

Against the run he was better than Seymour.

[Ace Gunner]

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

Like Dorsey and Jackson, it's easy for lesser informed fans to think Ty Warren wasn't anything special.

Against the run he was better than Seymour.

okay, this is just way out of the galaxy wrong. first, I never said ty warren wasn't a good player, he was and the way he held the point on the strongside was special. but to say he was better at anything than seymour is way way wrong.

richard seymour will have his bust in canton -- first ballot.

ty warren will be there when it happens, I'm guessing. that will likely be the closest he will ever come to the HOF.

early in his career seymour played LDE often and back then, ty warren was his back up.

warren's tackle totals = 255
seymour's = 317 and counting

seymour is a 7 time pro bowl selection & 3 time all pro.

warren has nothing.

for his play during 2006, seymour was AV rated best on his team, a team with brady on it.

seymour is as good a player as any before him that played in this system. the other player I would hold as high regard that played the position is leonard marshall -- the Giant that ate joe montana during the playoffs in SF.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAABWqhNvtg


here you will see seymour chosen top AV 2006
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/

seymour's player page
http://www.pro-football-reference.co...S/SeymRi00.htm

warren's
http://www.pro-football-reference.co...W/WarrTy20.htm

glenn dorsey couldn't hold warren's joc, jackson, I'll wait another season before I weigh in.

[Rasputin]

Tyson Jack can sack Peyton Manning and *snap* goes the neck.

All it takes is one sack.

[Mr. Laz]

[what they want from their linemen is stout play against the run.

and yet ...

[whoman69]

The fact is their primary duty is to protect against the run. That doesn't change the fact that they are worthless on passing downs which teams are more and more dialing up against our base defense. Jackson at least showed a little improvement last year.

[Buckweath]

Originally Posted by whoman69

The fact is their primary duty is to protect against the run. That doesn't change the fact that they are worthless on passing downs which teams are more and more dialing up against our base defense. Jackson at least showed a little improvement last year.

It is true that Jackson and Dorsey never apply pressure by themselves on the QB but remember that the Chiefs finished 8th overall in pass defense last year, and that was without Eric Berry. Now, I expect Houston to be solid in passrushing for a full season and Dontari Poe should be an improvement over Gregg in the passrushing department, so I think the Chiefs pass defense can do fine and be elite against the pass even if Dorsey and Jackson don't improve in that regard. And I don't consider Routt much of a downgrade BTW.

[whoman69]

Originally Posted by Buckweath

It is true that Jackson and Dorsey never apply pressure by themselves on the QB but remember that the Chiefs finished 8th overall in pass defense last year, and that was without Eric Berry. Now, I expect Houston to be solid in passrushing for a full season and Dontari Poe should be an improvement over Gregg in the passrushing department, so I think the Chiefs pass defense can do fine and be elite against the pass even if Dorsey and Jackson don't improve in that regard. And I don't consider Routt much of a downgrade BTW.

They were actually sixth, but they were the least passed against team in the league. The fact that other teams could run against our 26th ranked run defense shows that what this article was trying to praise Jackson and Dorsey for was the weak part of our defense. Poe will probably start out in the sub packages against the pass from what has been put out there. He showed in Memphis that he can't be out there every down.

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by whoman69

They were actually sixth, but they were the least passed against team in the league. The fact that other teams could run against our 26th ranked run defense shows that what this article was trying to praise Jackson and Dorsey for was the weak part of our defense. Poe will probably start out in the sub packages against the pass from what has been put out there. He showed in Memphis that he can't be out there every down.

Not exactly. The Chiefs run defense wasn't 26th in the league, and teams didn't run more than they passed b/c our run D sucked. Our run D was 14th in the league in ypc, but we're run on more than about any defense in the league b/c teams we faced played with a lead most of the time.

Nonly that, but Poe didn't prove He wasn't a three down player at Memphis. The Chiefs took him believing he could be a 3 down NT. He'll start in sub packages b/c all he was asked to do in college was disrupt the QB. At this time, his pass rush should be more developed than his run D.

[BossChief]

If Poe fills his potential, Belcher and DJ are gonna both appear super human.

[Stanley Nickels]

This team's "stout run defense" ranked 26th in the league last year..

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by Stanley Nickels

This team's "stout run defense" ranked 26th in the league last year..

Which is really a load of bullshit.

Our YPG allowed was inflated by our horrible offense.

We were 14th in YPC which isn't horrible when you consider we lost our best safety and had Pissinthebelly running around out there for huge chunks of games.

I'd like to see our YPC allowed over the last half of the season when Houston was getting up to speed...I bet it was pretty good.

[Stanley Nickels]

Originally Posted by Satanic Goat

Which is really a load of bullshit.

Our YPG allowed was inflated by our horrible offense.

We were 14th in YPC which isn't horrible when you consider we lost our best safety and had Pissinthebelly running around out there for huge chunks of games.

I'd like to see our YPC allowed over the last half of the season when Houston was getting up to speed...I bet it was pretty good.

Well, we're one of six teams to allow zero runs of >40 yards, and tied for 10th in the league in >20 yard runs (allowed 10). Also, we were 4th-highest in attempts per game (31.8 rushes/gm).

Those stats would generally support your idea that our "total" rushing defense was hurt as a byproduct of our shitty offense.. but our YPC is middle-of-the pack, which doesn't really support PFF's "superstar" claim for our D-ends.