Apple overhauling its 30 pin connector

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by DaveNull

- Source

Jesus. NO. USB 2.0 has 5, USB 3.0 can have 11. You'd think the author would check shit like that. FAIL

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Jesus. NO. USB 2.0 has 5, USB 3.0 can have 11. You'd think the author would check shit like that. FAIL

That post has a bajillion edits already and remains full of fail.

It's the KC Chiefs of Mac blog posts.

[Shag]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Jesus. NO. USB 2.0 has 5, USB 3.0 can have 11. You'd think the author would check shit like that. FAIL

The iPhone 5 is only USB 2.0, so technically, it's correct. Whether they should have gone with 3.0 is a different story...

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by Shag

The iPhone 5 is only USB 2.0, so technically, it's correct. Whether they should have gone with 3.0 is a different story...

Well not really. He is talking about the usb spec not being able to handle certain amperages or not having enough pins. Neither of which really would be dependent on actually utilizing USB 3.0 just utilizing the connection form factor and the charging spec.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Jesus. NO. USB 2.0 has 5, USB 3.0 can have 11. You'd think the author would check shit like that. FAIL

What are you talking about? The MicroUSB connector everyone is familiar with only has 5 pins.

You are confused, and you're wrong about this. And you even posted misinformation on that blog writer's site.

The microUSB adapter that just about all other phones use, including the revered Galaxy SIII looks like this:



That's the adapter that everybody is whining about the iPhone 5 not using. But that is a 5 pin adapter. Here's the pinout:



5 pins. Apple lost functionality going down to 8 pins, which was stupid in my opinion. But they still needed more than 5 pins. That's what the author is saying.

USB 3 micro does not have 11 pins. What you're likely thinking of is the 10 pin USB 3 Micro B. Which looks like this:





That's your 10(11ish?) pin connector. But how many devies currently use that? That's what you're arguing with, but that's not what other devices currently use.

And you are also wrong about the amperage part too. MicroUSB like the beloved format everybody wanted, can only transmit 900mA of current.

A unit load is defined as 100 mA in USB 2.0, and 150 mA in USB 3.0. A device may draw a maximum of 5 unit loads (500 mA) from a port in USB 2.0; 6 (900 mA) in USB 3.0. There are two types of devices: low-power and high-power. A low-power device draws at most 1 unit load, with minimum operating voltage of 4.4 V in USB 2.0, and 4 V in USB 3.0.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Power

The iPad requires 2A of current. MicroUSB does not and cannot provide that, as pointed out above. For reference, the Galaxy SIII requires 700mA.

That blog writer made some stupid errors in writing, which has been pointed out, and the author corrected them. But he does have a point about most of that. You should post an apology on that poor guy's site for hammering on him.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

What are you talking about? The MicroUSB connector everyone is familiar with only has 5 pins.

You are confused, and you're wrong about this. And you even posted misinformation on that blog writer's site.

The microUSB adapter that just about all other phones use, including the revered Galaxy SIII looks like this:


That's the adapter that everybody is whining about the iPhone 5 not using. But that is a 5 pin adapter. Here's the pinout:


5 pins. Apple lost functionality going down to 8 pins, which was stupid in my opinion. But they still needed more than 5 pins. That's what the author is saying.

USB 3 micro does not have 11 pins. What you're likely thinking of is the 10 pin USB 3 Micro B. Which looks like this:


That's your 10(11ish?) pin connector. But how many devies currently use that? That's what you're arguing with, but that's not what other devices currently use.

And you are also wrong about the amperage part too. MicroUSB like the beloved format everybody wanted, can only transmit 900mA of current.


The iPad requires 2A of current. MicroUSB does not and cannot provide that, as pointed out above. For reference, the Galaxy SIII requires 700mA.

That blog writer made some stupid errors in writing, which has been pointed out, and the author corrected them. But he does have a point about most of that. You should post an apology on that poor guy's site for hammering on him.

NO I am not talking about the 5 pin usb. I AM talking about the micro-b usb3 11 pin connector. YES not many devices are using it yet, BUT it is backwards compatible and a STANDARD that more and more devices are using when they need the extra pins. I was lead to believe that certain models of the SIII were using it but if not, who cares? The STANDARD is new but gaining adoption and plenty of devices ARE out there and most importantly.. it's a ****ing industry STANDARD.

There was NO REASON for Apple to go with a proprietary connector. PERIOD. Need more pins? Use SuperSpeed micro-b. (and get 2 extra pins for the trouble)

And you are DEAD wrong on amperage. My touchpad pulls 2.2A.. over an OLD USB connector. So, once again you have NO CLUE what you are talking about.
The problem is getting the power WHILE also communicating. Which USB3.0 (micro-b) will let you do at 1.5A. Plenty. And why even bring up the iPad? it doesn't use the new connector yet so claiming it will need some theoretical amperage is dumb, they could easily set the next model to take in 1.5 while communicating and more when only charging.


You seem to confuse me with those saying it should be the old USB connector. Nope. Use the NEW standard (if you have to) and you'd still be backward compatible with only slight loss of functionality. Instead they introduce an unnecessary proprietary connector.

You can NOT find a technical reason (besides reversibility) that makes sense. Sorry, it just doesn't exist.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

NO I am not talking about the 5 pin usb. I AM talking about the micro-b usb3 11 pin connector. YES not many devices are using it yet, BUT it is backwards compatible and a STANDARD that more and more devices are using when they need the extra pins. I was lead to believe that certain models of the SIII were using it but if not, who cares? The STANDARD is new but gaining adoption and plenty of devices ARE out there and most importantly.. it's a ****ing industry STANDARD.

There was NO REASON for Apple to go with a proprietary connector. PERIOD. Need more pins? Use SuperSpeed micro-b. (and get 2 extra pins for the trouble)

And you are DEAD wrong on amperage. My touchpad pulls 2.2A.. over an OLD USB connector. So, once again you have NO CLUE what you are talking about.
The problem is getting the power WHILE also communicating. Which USB3.0 (micro-b) will let you do at 1.5A. Plenty. And why even bring up the iPad? it doesn't use the new connector yet so claiming it will need some theoretical amperage is dumb, they could easily set the next model to take in 1.5 while communicating and more when only charging.


You seem to confuse me with those saying it should be the old USB connector. Nope. Use the NEW standard (if you have to) and you'd still be backward compatible with only slight loss of functionality. Instead they introduce an unnecessary proprietary connector.

You can NOT find a technical reason (besides reversibility) that makes sense. Sorry, it just doesn't exist.

Ohh. So you wanted Apple to adopt a different new connector, that would have also required all current Apple users to buy new peripherals and adapters and hypothetically put millions of accessory manufacturers out of business? Essentially putting current Apple device owners in the exact same predicament that they're bitching about now? You admit the standard is not new, just like Apple's Lightning.

You were confusing 5 pin microUSB with 10pin microUSB B through the entire thread.

Originally Posted by AustinChief

I want to hear the excuses made by fanbois for why they didn't just use micro usb3... like everyone else.

Originally Posted by AustinChief

micro usb is far from being analogous to any outdated tech. If Apple gave a shit about the consumer it would work with the industry instead of against it. Look at IBM, Intel and even Microsoft in recent years.

Originally Posted by AustinChief

The form factor is only a matter of choice. MicroUSB would do the job just fine if Apple was willing to go with the STANDARD form factor. their only excuse is that they REALLY feel that having a reversible plug is THAT important.

And regarding your old Touchpad pulling 2.2A, that's because it's plugged into a wall adapter. Which doubles up pins to use for power and allows for higher amperage charging. Data pins aren't used when plugged into a charging adapter, and that allows for additional pins to be used for sending another line of power. You're not getting 2.2A from USB 5 pin to USB 5 pin. Hence the communication aspect.

I bring up the iPad, because it cannot be charged by being plugged into a computer's USB port. Because it requires too much amperage. It can only charge when you plug the USB port into the iPad wall charger, which doubles up unused pins to use for increased amps. That's the only way it can currently charge. The next iPad will use the Lightning adapter as well. Apple wanted to consolidate the adapters and have Lightning be the future. As stupid as I think that is, they couldn't have used MicroUSB if they wanted to consolidate. And MicroUSB 3 vB would be no different than switching to Lightning.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

Ohh. So you wanted Apple to adopt a different new connector, that would have also required all current Apple users to buy new peripherals and adapters and hypothetically put millions of accessory manufacturers out of business? Essentially putting current Apple device owners in the exact same predicament that they're bitching about now? You admit the standard is not new, just like Apple's Lightning.

You were confusing 5 pin microUSB with 10pin microUSB B through the entire thread.

NO.. YOU may have been confusing the connectors. I have not been. My only fault is assuming all Galaxy SIII's use the new connector. Mea Culpa. BUT don't you dare try to ****ing tell me what I WAS thinking or saying. I happen to know this subject, I don't just look up shit on wikipedia. Earlier in the thread, before we knew the pin count... I argued that it could all be accomplished via usb connectors (yes, even 2.0)... and that is still true. BUT since you failed to grasp the concept that "mo pin does NOT equal mo better" I have moved on to something you SHOULD be able to comprehend. It does not invalidate what I posted earlier but the fact that the NEW Apple connector has FEWER pins than one of the standards for USB (micro-b 3.0) COMPLETELY invalidates your entire argument.

AND YES if Apple needs a new connector then use the STANDARD that everyone else will be using and is compatible with the old STANDARD connector as well. I have no problem with them changing connectors. I have never said otherwise. I have a problem that they didn't adopt a STANDARD one instead of another proprietary piece of shit. No TECHNICAL reason for them not to.

Originally Posted by KC Fish

And regarding your old Touchpad pulling 2.2A, that's because it's plugged into a wall adapter. Which doubles up pins to use for power and allows for higher amperage charging. Data pins aren't used when plugged into a charging adapter, and that allows for additional pins to be used for sending another line of power. You're not getting 2.2A from USB 5 pin to USB 5 pin. Hence the communication aspect.

I bring up the iPad, because it cannot be charged by being plugged into a computer's USB port. Because it requires too much amperage. It can only charge when you plug the USB port into the iPad wall charger, which doubles up unused pins to use for increased amps. That's the only way it can currently charge. The next iPad will use the Lightning adapter as well. Apple wanted to consolidate the adapters and have Lightning be the future. As stupid as I think that is, they couldn't have used MicroUSB if they wanted to consolidate. And MicroUSB 3 vB would be no different than switching to Lightning.

And this entire two paragraphs of nonsense means what? YES I know it is pulling 2.2 from the wall without communication.. I stated as much by showing that the new standards allow for 1.5A AND 5A depending on if you are communicating or not.

And you end by making NO SENSE whatsoever. WHY exactly could they not use USB 3.0 micro-B for the new phone and the next iPad?

They could pull 1.5A to charge while plugged into a computer and 5A from the wall. The form factor is small/thin enough... and it has enough of your oh so valuable pins.

So in short... we agree that it is fine for Apple to change form factors after 10 years. No problem there. We agree that Apple users will bitch about it no matter what and they'll just have to deal. Where you seem to be getting STUCK is that you are making excuses for them NOT adopting an established standard(USB 3.0 micro-b) when there is NO TECHNICAL excuse out there.

FAIL.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

You are confused, and you're wrong about this. And you even posted misinformation on that blog writer's site.

And seriously, **** off for telling me I posted misinformation. I posted the following...

You REALLY need to do your research BEFORE writing an article on a topic. You’re woefully unprepared and ignorant regarding USB 3.0; a standard that is almost 4 years old now. USB 3.0 can support data speeds of 5 Gbit/s and charge at 1.5A while communicating. It can max out at 5A charging.
There is no TECHNICAL excuse for Apple not to have made the switch.

USB3.0 is almost 4 years old - check
5 Gbit/s - check
charge at 1.5A (with plug/play communication) - check
max at 5A - check

...btw you didn't see many devices jump to use the new connector because they simply don't need the extra bandwidth. If Apple HAS to have more pins.. the standard has been out there for 4 years... use it.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

And seriously, **** off for telling me I posted misinformation. I posted the following...


USB3.0 is almost 4 years old - check
5 Gbit/s - check
charge at 1.5A (with plug/play communication) - check
max at 5A - check

...btw you didn't see many devices jump to use the new connector because they simply don't need the extra bandwidth. If Apple HAS to have more pins.. the standard has been out there for 4 years... use it.

You know damn good and well that the blog author was not talking about comparing Apple Lightning connector to the USB3 Micro V3 11 pin connector. You were confusing the two and talking about qualities of both through the entire thread. And it's clear the blog author wasn't talking about the 11pin connector. That's not what the general populace is enraged about and you know it.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

You know damn good and well that the blog author was not talking about comparing Apple Lightning connector to the USB3 Micro V3 11 pin connector. You were confusing the two and talking about qualities of both through the entire thread. And it's clear the blog author wasn't talking about the 11pin connector. That's not what the general populace is enraged about and you know it.

I know exactly what he was saying and he FAILED because he was either ignorant (I gave him the benefit of the doubt) or a misleading liar by not mentioning USB 3.0 micro-b.

AND you are dead wrong. People are outraged at yet another proprietary connector. If Apple had brought out a micro-b connector.. you'd still get outrage from some.. but many would point out A)it's a standard, even if you may not be familiar with it yet and B)it's backwards compatible with existing cables/devices/etc (although of course you'd lose some functionality or speed... which is funny because that is EXACTLY what is happening with the new connector anyway)

Maybe I'm wrong and Apple users are so stupid that I'm misreading their outrage. If so, sorry, I gave them the benefit of the doubt as well.