Chiefs PFF talks Chiefs O-line - Page 5

Hammock Parties · 04-03-2012, 03:30 AM

This is also an excellent article explaining some of their grading process.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...-april-2-2012/

You guys have talked a lot about Barry Richardson dragging down the quality of the Chiefs’ line. Now that they’ve added Eric Winston, how do you think their line grades out compared to the rest of the league? – Matt Conner

Ben Stockwell: The addition of Winston immediately makes the Chiefs one of the best offensive lines in the league. In terms of an offensive line ranking, Winston not only upgrades a line that we ranked 16th in the 2011 season, it plugs their biggest weakness and also takes away one of the best players from our fifth-ranked offensive line from last season. It doesn’t solve all of their problems, but any time that you can replace arguably the worst right tackle in the league with arguably the best, well you can’t really make a bigger jump than that.

You can only really imagine where the Chiefs might be if they hadn’t made the hasty decision of cutting Jared Gaither during the middle of the year. A line of Gaither at left tackle, Winston at right tackle and shifting Branden Albert inside to his collegiate position of guard would be a fearsome group for the Chiefs’ backfield duo of Jamaal Charles and Peyton Hillis to run behind. As it is, they don’t have Gaither anymore, but they’re not exactly short changed.

The biggest obstacle for the Chiefs to improve in 2012 will be getting more from there interior offensive line as run blockers. Winston really helps them on the edge–not only in upgrading their pass protection, but also helping them spring more runs off-tackle–but Jon Asamoah and Ryan Lilja really need to up their game as interior run blockers. It’s just about all this line is missing now that they have made that big leap at right tackle.

Hammock Parties · 04-03-2012, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTLB58

But really? Pressures? If that # was reversed you would be using it against BR all day long.

What? No. That doesn't even make sense.

Eric Winston was the 11th rated pass blocker OUT OF ALL OFFENSIVE TACKLES last season. Richardson was like the 5th WORST.

It is literally IMPOSSIBLE to make a comparison between the two.

Looking at sack numbers alone is not going to give you a true picture. Giving up 7 sacks in a 16-game season is acceptable. Guys like Tyron Smith and D'Brickshaw Ferugson gave up 8 sacks last season and both are excellent players.

And most sacks are on third down, so that's not really an issue. I mean, probably every tackle in the league gave up most of their sacks on third down.

**Easy 6** · 04-03-2012, 12:41 PM

Jeeez, thought these dumb arguments for Albert to guard died a long time ago & Cassel vs Green is so ****ing hilarious as to defy belief.

DaWolf · 04-03-2012, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satanic Goat

No, he's not. He's bigger and more mobile, that's it. Green had a better arm and better accuracy, and was more mentally sharp. And those ARE god given talents. Some guys have accuracy, some don't. Cassel doesn't.

I don't think Green really had a great arm, but it was adequate. He was more accurate than Cassel, that's a fact, but I think we'd be lying to ourselves if we didn't acknowledge that a lot of that had to do with him playing with the best OL of that decade in front of him. He could stand back there often times and wait for routes to open up/throwing windows to become available. And it helps when you have a HOF security blanked in Tony Gonzales to throw to, and a RB like Priest Holmes to check down to, as Holmes had a couple of 70 catch seasons in there.

Green was a decent QB, but I think a lot of people on this board overvalue him. To me, he was the classic guy who thrived when surrounded by talent and playing in a system suited to use his strengths and hide his weaknesses. You only have to look at his first season to see what a disaster he was when things weren't peachy around him. But he was DV's pet QB, and they surrounded him with all the pieces.

Still, he wasn't dynamic enough to ever lead us to the playoffs under DV more than that one year...

keg in kc · 04-03-2012, 01:16 PM

Wow, that's some epic Green underselling there. He was a tremendous game manager. Cassel has never shown that. He doesn't complete passes at a high percentage. He doesn't have any ability to stretch the field. He brings absolutely nothing to the table that elevates the play of the people around him. Put 2002 Green on the field with last season's offense (including the line), even without Charles, and he throws for 4000 yards and 20+ DTs. I think he makes the playoffs with that team. He was a much, much better quarterback than Cassel has ever been, at any point.

And the "dynamic enough to ever lead us to the playoffs" is about the lamest argument you can possibly make about a guy who quarterbacked a top-5 offense for 4 years, on a team that was saddled with a historically weak defense. He more than did his part (including in the one playoff loss they had). Put him behind center on last year's team, they make the playoffs and beat Pittsburgh. No question at all in my mind.

Cassel's a lot closer to Tyler Thigpen than he is to Trent Green. Hell, he's not even Damon Huard.

yeti · 04-03-2012, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott free

Jeeez, thought these dumb arguments for Albert to guard died a long time ago & Cassel vs Green is so ****ing hilarious as to defy belief.

When the news is slow we might as well bitch about the classics.

Frosty · 04-03-2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yeti

When the news is slow we might as well bitch about the classics.

Dammit Carl!

Blick · 04-03-2012, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satanic Goat

ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME?

Top 5 passers from last year:

1. Drew Brees
2. Tom Brady
3. Matt Stafford
4. Eli Manning
5. Aaron Rodgers

Those teams won:

13, 13, 10, 9 and 15 games in the regular season and THE SUPER BOWL.

This is a passing league and we'd have a much better chance to win a playoff game if Cassel was a talented passer. He's not.

I know it's a passing league.

I never said Cassel was a talented passer.

All I'm saying is scoring points > gaining yards

Blick · 04-03-2012, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Would you prefer 27/7 and a one-and-done in the playoffs, or 29/16 and a Super Bowl win?

27/7 means dick if you can't perform when the stakes are the highest.

I said "obviously we want a real QB"...

Hammock Parties · 04-03-2012, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blick

I know it's a passing league.

I never said Cassel was a talented passer.

All I'm saying is scoring points > gaining yards

THOSE TEAMS SCORE LOTS OF POINTS AND WIN LOTS OF GAMES BECAUSE THEIR QUARTERBACKS RACK UP THE PASSING YARDS.

WHAT PART OF THIS IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

Blick · 04-03-2012, 03:37 PM

Trent Green didn't have a 4000 yard season until he was 33 years old.

Before that, he was pretty Cassel-ish.

He was 31 years old in 2001 when he posted a 56.6 completion % (lower than each of Cassel's last 2 years) and had 17 TD's and 24 INT's. That's ****ing awful.

BUT OH MAN HE THREW FOR 3783 YARDS AND THE CHIEFS HAD THE 5TH BEST OFFENSE IN THE LEAGUE IN YARDS!

Too bad they were 16th in scoring and went 6-10.

RustShack · 04-03-2012, 03:39 PM

Green was pretty bad before and after his time in KC. He was great with a great OL, running game, and TE.

Hammock Parties · 04-03-2012, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blick

Trent Green didn't have a 4000 yard season until he was 33 years old.

Before that, he was pretty Cassel-ish.

Yeah, no one cares. That wasn't the real Trent Green. That was Green surrounded by scrubs trying to bail water out of a dinghy.

Quote:

BUT OH MAN HE THREW FOR 3783 YARDS AND THE CHIEFS HAD THE 5TH BEST OFFENSE IN THE LEAGUE IN YARDS!

Too bad they were 16th in scoring and went 6-10.

That was TEN years ago, and we had the worst defense in the league.

The rules have changed. If Cassel could put up Trent Green numbers, even 2002 Trent Green numbers, we'd be Super Bowl contenders. Green averaged 7.85 YPA in 2002. That is OUTSTANDING.

Cassel will never produce like Green. Not in a million years. He'll be dead and gone in two, anyway.

RustShack · 04-03-2012, 03:44 PM

So since Brady Quinn was surrounded by scrubs before, we will see the real one this year? Can't wait, because hes more talented than Green was! Younger too!

Hammock Parties · 04-03-2012, 03:44 PM

Oh, and Green was showing he could play at a high level in this league far before the age of 33. He averaged 8.6 YPA for the Rams in 2000. Had he started every game that year he'd have hit 4,000 yards easily.

Do not ever compare Matt Cassel and Trent Green. It's a ****ing insult, to green, and to the intelligence of Chiefs fans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

Green was pretty bad before and after his time in KC. He was great with a great OL, running game, and TE.

Wrong. Green was an excellent QB in Washington and St. Louis.

****ing morons.

**BigMeatballDave** · 04-03-2012, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satanic Goat

Oh, and Green was showing he could play at a high level in this league far before the age of 33. He averaged 8.6 YPA for the Rams in 2000. Had he started every game that year he'd have hit 4,000 yards easily.

Do not ever compare Matt Cassel and Trent Green. It's a ****ing insult, to green, and to the intelligence of Chiefs fans.

Wrong. Green was an excellent QB in Washington and St. Louis.

****ing morons.

He was not excellent in Washington. 54.6%?

Very Cassel-like numbers.

04-03-2012, 03:30 AM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4700478	PFF talks Chiefs O-line This is also an excellent article explaining some of their grading process. http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...-april-2-2012/ You guys have talked a lot about Barry Richardson dragging down the quality of the Chiefs’ line. Now that they’ve added Eric Winston, how do you think their line grades out compared to the rest of the league? – Matt Conner Ben Stockwell: The addition of Winston immediately makes the Chiefs one of the best offensive lines in the league. In terms of an offensive line ranking, Winston not only upgrades a line that we ranked 16th in the 2011 season, it plugs their biggest weakness and also takes away one of the best players from our fifth-ranked offensive line from last season. It doesn’t solve all of their problems, but any time that you can replace arguably the worst right tackle in the league with arguably the best, well you can’t really make a bigger jump than that. You can only really imagine where the Chiefs might be if they hadn’t made the hasty decision of cutting Jared Gaither during the middle of the year. A line of Gaither at left tackle, Winston at right tackle and shifting Branden Albert inside to his collegiate position of guard would be a fearsome group for the Chiefs’ backfield duo of Jamaal Charles and Peyton Hillis to run behind. As it is, they don’t have Gaither anymore, but they’re not exactly short changed. The biggest obstacle for the Chiefs to improve in 2012 will be getting more from there interior offensive line as run blockers. Winston really helps them on the edge–not only in upgrading their pass protection, but also helping them spring more runs off-tackle–but Jon Asamoah and Ryan Lilja really need to up their game as interior run blockers. It’s just about all this line is missing now that they have made that big leap at right tackle.
Posts: 277,920

04-03-2012, 12:41 PM	#62
Easy 6 pie is never free Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: the drivers seat Casino cash: $3717775	Jeeez, thought these dumb arguments for Albert to guard died a long time ago & Cassel vs Green is so ****ing hilarious as to defy belief.
Posts: 91,717

04-03-2012, 01:16 PM	#64
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Wow, that's some epic Green underselling there. He was a tremendous game manager. Cassel has never shown that. He doesn't complete passes at a high percentage. He doesn't have any ability to stretch the field. He brings absolutely nothing to the table that elevates the play of the people around him. Put 2002 Green on the field with last season's offense (including the line), even without Charles, and he throws for 4000 yards and 20+ DTs. I think he makes the playoffs with that team. He was a much, much better quarterback than Cassel has ever been, at any point. And the "dynamic enough to ever lead us to the playoffs" is about the lamest argument you can possibly make about a guy who quarterbacked a top-5 offense for 4 years, on a team that was saddled with a historically weak defense. He more than did his part (including in the one playoff loss they had). Put him behind center on last year's team, they make the playoffs and beat Pittsburgh. No question at all in my mind. Cassel's a lot closer to Tyler Thigpen than he is to Trent Green. Hell, he's not even Damon Huard.
Posts: 58,682

04-03-2012, 03:37 PM	#70
Blick Veteran Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: South KC Casino cash: $10004900	Trent Green didn't have a 4000 yard season until he was 33 years old. Before that, he was pretty Cassel-ish. He was 31 years old in 2001 when he posted a 56.6 completion % (lower than each of Cassel's last 2 years) and had 17 TD's and 24 INT's. That's ****ing awful. BUT OH MAN HE THREW FOR 3783 YARDS AND THE CHIEFS HAD THE 5TH BEST OFFENSE IN THE LEAGUE IN YARDS! Too bad they were 16th in scoring and went 6-10.
Posts: 1,209

04-03-2012, 03:39 PM	#71
RustShack **** That Noise Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Jack Trice Casino cash: $4686954	Green was pretty bad before and after his time in KC. He was great with a great OL, running game, and TE. __________________
Posts: 15,049

04-03-2012, 03:44 PM	#73
RustShack **** That Noise Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Jack Trice Casino cash: $4686954	So since Brady Quinn was surrounded by scrubs before, we will see the real one this year? Can't wait, because hes more talented than Green was! Younger too! __________________
Posts: 15,049